139 réponses à ce sujet

[JoePilot]

I'll just leave this right here.

It's short, but the relevant portion includes the following:

Developers should craft follow-ups around the original fan base. When
creating a sequel, they need to keep the scope in line what the fans can
support. If Dragon Age: Origins sold 3 million copies,
it seems foolish to spend so much money on Dragon Age 2 that it needs
to sell twice that amount to make a profit. (I'm not saying this is
specifically the case with DA2; it's just an example.) The breadth of
the sequel should be such that if it matches the original (or maybe
sells a little more), it will still be profitable. This amazing feat is actually rather simple to accomplish: Don't change everything.
Changes cost money, and when developers bet on generating new users,
they also risks alienating their original users. Fans are the strongest
thing a franchise can have, and it's a terrible idea to get on their bad
side.

If developers irritate the customers that made their product matter, they will lose sales. According to VGChartz.com, Dragon Age: Origins will likely end up outselling Dragon Age 2
by far. While the latter has already sold about half the amount of the
former (largely due to high preorder numbers), the sequel's bestselling
SKU, the 360, has already dropped to an alarming 30,000 copies worldwide
in its seventh week. Dragon Age: Origins posted ten times that in its
seventh week. Something makes me think that EA was expecting the sequel
to do better. They talked about picking up tons of new fans...and maybe
they did. But it seems they lost a lot of people in the process (myself
included).

The EA fiscal Q4 earnings call is coming up on the 4th of may, so we'll get some definitive news then, but I'm betting DA2 didn't do nearly what was expected of it.  I'd love to be a fly on Gaider's or Laidlaw's walls right about now.

BDF, don't even bother. 

[seraphymon]

couldnt agree more with that article

[88mphSlayer]

i don't feel alienated at all

slightly irritated, but not alienated

[Harmless Crunch]

I wasnt really that alienated with DA2..........ME2 on the other hand......

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Excellent article.

I don't agree that gameplay/mechanics must always stay the same for sequels to succeed, but I do think you have to think of your core fans first when doing a sequel rather than trying to bring in gamers who prefer, say, shooters to RPGs.

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 01 mai 2011 - 05:17 .

[JabbaDaHutt30]

inb4 LOL VGCHARTZ

[Altima Darkspells]

You mean sequels shouldn't change genres from their predecessor? You're clearly talking crazy.

[appleyum]

Agree. Dragon Age 2 felt too much like reinvention of the wheel instead of expanding what people liked about Dragon Age 1.

1 step forward and 2 steps back

Modifié par appleyum, 01 mai 2011 - 01:39 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Altima Darkspells wrote...

You mean sequels shouldn't change genres from their predecessor? You're clearly talking crazy.

You wait. DA3 will try to bring in the RTS fans.

Civilization: Thedas edition!

[appleyum]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...
You wait. DA3 will try to bring in the RTS fans.

Civilization: Thedas edition!

Wait don't give them any idea...they might throw in Orcs to lure over Warcraft fans.

Modifié par appleyum, 01 mai 2011 - 05:25 .

[slimgrin]

 "Many fans of Call of Duty don’t give a crap about Dragon Age -- or very likely Portal for that matter -- and no amount of pandering is going to get them to care."


Someone post this on Muzyka's bulletin board.

Modifié par slimgrin, 01 mai 2011 - 05:26 .

[Euno17]

Altima Darkspells wrote...

You mean sequels shouldn't change genres from their predecessor? You're clearly talking crazy.

LOL - sign that person up to be in an insane asylum! How dare someone bring about this clearly 'new' creative concept! it's mind-boggling!

I have heard another crazy idea just this morning - someone had the NERVE to say development cycles need to be 36 to 48 months and not 18! Can you believe that? Things like that should be against the law! No one should be allowed to sprout such non-sense!

I mean DA2 was made in 18 months and it's a fine product right?!

[Altima Darkspells]

appleyum wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...
You wait. DA3 will try to bring in the RTS fans.

Civilization: Thedas edition!

Wait don't give them any idea...they might throw in Orcs to lure over Warcraft fans.

I'm still waiting for the Ferelden accent to become a dixie drawl.

"Mah lawd, these darkspawn be givin' me tha vapahs somethin' fierce!"

[JabbaDaHutt30]

What you're seeing is the work of one messere Laidlaw. Managed to destroy a franchise before it took off.

Modifié par JabbaDaHutt30, 01 mai 2011 - 06:13 .

[Duchess of Dumb Fries]

I don't know so much about the genre-changing thing, while DA2 was very different. I thought they were mostly in the form of loss of features, it certainly can't be called an action game in any way. I think it did still feel very much like origins in spirit(particularly the points I didn't like in origins ) Just dumbed down. So basically they kept all the sucky things about origins, removed a lot of the good, and also added brought one or two good things to the table. I understand that was probably their mindset, but please, games like morrowind have more action-game mechanics than DA2. The silly animations and teleporting + giant swords seem more like an anime thing and while not to my tastes is just style and not the mechanics. Those things and exploding pplz could just as well have been in origins.

[dulak999]

Well personally i played through about 3/4 of DA2 and apart from ground hog day scenery i still didnt feel like the game had a main story.

I was bitterly disappointed and i stopped playing.

This is a poor sequel in every possible way.

[Canadish]

Yeah, I think the issue is it just took away. It added NOTHING, apart from smoother animation.

Mass Effect 2 lost some elements but gained new ones.
Dragon Age 2 just got lost up its own rear.

[asaiasai]

Nice article and a long winded way to say when it comes to games and fans, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Bioware with DA2 made a grab for the two in the bush and lost the bird in the hand, should be interesting to see how this plays out, and see the effect on pre orders and in general sales for DA3 if such an animal survives the appropriations process. I loved ME and hated ME2 and will not pre order ME3 because i do not see Bioware going back to the rpg elements they took out of ME for ME3. I will eventually buy a copy of ME3 or even DA2 for that matter when the price drops as having taken the pre order chance on ME2 and was i felt burned, having seen the demo i cancelled my pre order for DA2.

Again just in case it was missed, a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

Asai

[mykeme]

The article speaks the truth. I would even go so far as to say that Dragon Age II was impossible to f*ck up, simply because it was supposed to be built upon the strong foundation of DA:O. I actually find it hard to believe that anyone could be so oblivious to everything so as to create this atrocious sequel to a critically acclaimed game. At that point, I usually start thinking about the possible motives of Laidlaw and dream up some crazy conspiracy theory sh*t. However, Occam's Razor dictates that the simplest explanation is usually true - in this case it means that Laidlaw is probably just clueless about making video games.

Modifié par mykeme, 01 mai 2011 - 08:20 .

[astrallite]

Queue for Elhanan to say the author is yet another hater.

[Shadowbanner]

mykeme wrote...

The article speaks the truth. I would even go so far as to say that Dragon Age II was impossible to f*ck up, simply because it was supposed to be built upon the strong foundation of DA:O. I actually find it hard to believe that anyone could be so oblivious to everything so as to create this atrocious sequel to a critically acclaimed game. At that point, I usually start thinking about the possible motives of Laidlaw and dream up some crazy conspiracy theory sh*t. However, Occam's Razor dictates that the simplest explanation is usually true - in this case it means that Laidlaw is probably just clueless about making video games.

I wouldn't say he's clueless.

Simply put they wanted to appeal to a larger mainstream console-player fanbase and make more money. So they dumbed-down the game and streamlined it, period.

Laidlaw is guilty of coming across in his interviews as incompetently arrogant insulting long-time fans in the process or else he's agreed to be the fall guy who will be laid off as a result of the massive flop.

There is no conspiracy imo.

It was a smart decision on paper, but in reality, it as a terrible decision that's royally pissed off countless people the world over. Moreover it will threaten ME3 pre-orders as a result. I've cancelled my ME3 pre-order. This time before trusting blindly I will first read Amazon's, Gamespot's and Metacritic's user reviews. I will completely ignore professional reviewers because they have proven to be biased *cough* PC Gamer: "94%, DA2 best RPG of the next decade", yeah right *cough*. I suspect many gamers will do the same.

Hopefully ME3 will be a resounding success; in any case it's made by a different developer team. I just hope they will not strip it further from RPG elements. ME2's changes already felt weird compared to its predecessor which I liked more.

Modifié par Shadowbanner, 01 mai 2011 - 08:45 .

[SoR82]

Shadowbanner wrote...

mykeme wrote...

The article speaks the truth. I would even go so far as to say that Dragon Age II was impossible to f*ck up, simply because it was supposed to be built upon the strong foundation of DA:O. I actually find it hard to believe that anyone could be so oblivious to everything so as to create this atrocious sequel to a critically acclaimed game. At that point, I usually start thinking about the possible motives of Laidlaw and dream up some crazy conspiracy theory sh*t. However, Occam's Razor dictates that the simplest explanation is usually true - in this case it means that Laidlaw is probably just clueless about making video games.

I wouldn't say he's clueless.

Simply put they wanted to appeal to a larger mainstream console-player fanbase and make more money. So they dumbed-down the game and streamlined it, period.

Laidlaw is guilty of coming across in his interviews as incompetently arrogant insulting long-time fans in the process or else he's agreed to be the fall guy who will be laid off as a result of the massive flop.

There is no conspiracy imo.

It was a smart decision on paper, but in reality, it as a terrible decision that's royally pissed off countless people the world over. Moreover it will threaten ME3 pre-orders as a result. I've cancelled my ME3 pre-order. This time before trusting blindly I will read first Amazon's, Gamespot's and Metacritic's user reviews. I will completely ignore professional reviewers because they have proven to be biased *cough* PC Gamer: "94%, DA2 best RPG of the next decade", yeah right *cough*. I suspect many gamers will do the same.

Hopefully ME3 will be a resounding success; in any case it's made by a different developer team. I just hope they will not strip it further from RPG elements. ME2 changes already felt weird compared to its predecessor which I liked more.

Clueless? Perhaps, misguided definatly he made a cardinal sin of trying to please everyone and ended up with 6 of one and half a dozen of the other and catching niether of the large markets it was hoping to catch. DA 2 has its fan of course it does, personally there were things I liked, its just a shame about the other 90% of it.

If Laidlaw has agreed to be a fall guy then hes an even bigger fool than I took him for. The arrogance that this guy demonstrates is mind-bogiling at times. All his snippets reek of it all along the lines of "I felt" "I didnt like" and my perosonal favourite "Turn up the difficulty".

ME3 will still do alright I believe as hopefully a certain ninja loving.... person wont be allowed near it.... at least not if Bioware and EAs execs have brain one between them. Most people simply want the end to what so far has been an impressive story.

As for dlc and DA 3 time will tell but for me the franchise has been destroyed before it was even really begun.

[Harmless Crunch]

I seem to be the only person who liked the changes.
I liked all of these new things.
-The atmosphere still felt distinctly Dragon age.
-The new Freind/Rival system
-The faster combat
-How many twist and turns in the plot
-A voice protaginist
I could go on for quite a while but all of this new (And good imo) stuff was poorly implemented and rushed.
I dont hate Laidlaw or anybody else who changed the direction of the franchise.

I'm dissapointed in EA who rushed the game and dissapointed many.

Hopefully they know now that this is unaceptable to expect us to pay a large amount of money were the game is half-complete, buggy and a all 'round mess.

P.S. I'm not a DA2 hater, infact I love it more than DA:O and I like the new changes for the series, what I despise is EA trying to make quick buck or two out of a amazing fanchise and the best dev in the industry.
/Rant

[MorrigansLove]

The things is; Bioware didn't bring in a lot of new gamers with Dragon Age 2, like Mass Effect 2 did.

[Harmless Crunch]

@MorrigansLove
Thats true. And another thing is why? Why did EA try to reinvent the wheel and not allow it proper devolopment time?.
I mean it should either be very similar and quickly released (Like COD) or it should have a long development time if its going to be very different.
BioWare made a game that was very different and EA gave them hardly any time to develop it derp