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Why I think [insert character name] is hated.


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#276
ImmortalWarrior

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1Minsc1 wrote...

@nod
1. you quote me wrong, red color
2. was it a claim or not? you said you made no claim. so what?
3. wrong, you can distrust another race and see them as superior, or not? or stay neutral?
you
made a claim, i ask for evidence, you said you made no claim, you
repeat the claim, still without evidence and by the way you insulting
me. got it???



Did you even read my post? Your interpretation is wrong.  Your poor english goes against you to further prove this.

ImmortalWarrior wrote...

Generalizing someone by some
clearly defined category is called stereotyping.  Generalizing someone
because of their race, species, color, or creed is RACISM.


Read that.  The generalization can be positive as well, "you can distrust another race and see them as superior", but racism implies negative. Ash's generalization of races is not in a positive light.  It has negative connotations written all over it, thus, racism.

Modifié par ImmortalWarrior, 03 mai 2011 - 03:50 .


#277
Nodscouter

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1Minsc1 wrote...

@nod
1. you quote me wrong, red color
2. was it a claim or not? you said you made no claim. so what?
3. wrong, you can distrust another race and see them as superior, or not? or stay neutral?
you made a claim, i ask for evidence, you said you made no claim, you repeat the claim, still without evidence and by the way you insulting me. got it???

1 & 2: Actually, I no longer have any idea what you're talking about. If you can't speak English, you shouldn't be here.
3: Right, I may or may not have understood this one, it's really hard to read. You can distrust them and see your own race as superior. When did I ever say that distrusting others made them superior?
I did not make a claim, you think I did and ask for evidence, I say I did not make any claim, I change my argument so that your incredibly idiotic mind can finally undestand what I'm talking about. And no, I don't understand your last sentence. Try to talk through a translator or something.

#278
jamesp81

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Arcian wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

I agree on all points except for one about Tali.

I would NOT trade her for Koris. Even if he's right on peace with the Geth, he's a dickbag that loathes his own people. I have no respect for him and find him repulsive as a person. I'll kill the son of a **** in ME3 if I get a chance.

Guy realized his ancestors did something wrong and that his species will go under if they pursue war with the geth. And you want to kill him.

Yup, rampant Talimancer detected.


Never romanced Tali.  Koris is still a dickbag.  Xen is still bat**** insane.  They're both on my kill list.

The Quarians should pursue peace.  But I have no use for a self-hating, arrogant ass like Koris.

#279
jamesp81

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Actually, on last thought, the Admiralty board in its entirety should be disbanded. I have no confidence in their ability to govern and I'm pretty sure they're going to end up making a damned mess if left to their own devices.

#280
lolwut666

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@Siansonea II

It's a quarian custom that the captain of the accused should stand for her. She couldn't say anything even if she wanted to.

Also, Rael'Zorah is dead. He doesn't matter anymore. If he was alive, I would agree with you, but he is dead, so it's not like he can be arrested and punished for what he did.

I think keeping the quarian society stable is more important than post-humously exiling him.

#281
Nodscouter

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You know what? Let's disband the government of every country in the world too! I'm moderately sure I could find someone where in history where one of their rulers commited something wrong.
Obviously enough reason to destroy a government.

#282
lolwut666

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jamesp81 wrote...

Arcian wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

I agree on all points except for one about Tali.

I would NOT trade her for Koris. Even if he's right on peace with the Geth, he's a dickbag that loathes his own people. I have no respect for him and find him repulsive as a person. I'll kill the son of a **** in ME3 if I get a chance.

Guy realized his ancestors did something wrong and that his species will go under if they pursue war with the geth. And you want to kill him.

Yup, rampant Talimancer detected.


Never romanced Tali.  Koris is still a dickbag.  Xen is still bat**** insane.  They're both on my kill list.

The Quarians should pursue peace.  But I have no use for a self-hating, arrogant ass like Koris.


Zaal'Koris doesn't hate his people, darn it.

And if it looks like the other quarians love themselves more than he does, it's because they refuse to acknowledge their guilt on the geth incident, and *that's* the kind of attitude that is pushing the quarians to go to war.

Edit: Fix'd.

Modifié par lolwut666, 03 mai 2011 - 04:04 .


#283
Nodscouter

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Ah, I should learn to quote too it seems. Was referring to the post above yours.

#284
jamesp81

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Arcian wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

I agree on all points except for one about Tali.

I would NOT trade her for Koris. Even if he's right on peace with the Geth, he's a dickbag that loathes his own people. I have no respect for him and find him repulsive as a person. I'll kill the son of a **** in ME3 if I get a chance.

Guy realized his ancestors did something wrong and that his species will go under if they pursue war with the geth. And you want to kill him.

Yup, rampant Talimancer detected.


We're talking about a man who was willing to convict one of his own people of treason for political motivations.

****. Him.  What the hell kind of leader does this to his own people?  He was willing to destroy an innocent woman's life for his own goals.  HE DESERVES TO DIE FOR THIS CRIME.

#285
1Minsc1

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@Nodscouter

Nodscouter wrote...

1: Yes, let's blatantly ignore the analogy here, how convenient.
2: So, the problem here is semantics. How I do enjoy debating that.
Anyone who distrusts other races are a racist, they may not outright say that they think their race is superior, but it certainly implies that.
3: That completely depends on the situation. Age is not a valid argument for innocence.
I'll be going to bed now, and continue debating in circles in the morrow!



#286
jamesp81

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Nodscouter wrote...

You know what? Let's disband the government of every country in the world too! I'm moderately sure I could find someone where in history where one of their rulers commited something wrong.
Obviously enough reason to destroy a government.


The Quarians still have the conclave, which is an elected body.  They don't need a panel of oligarchs/dictators telling people what to do anyway.

#287
1Minsc1

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Nodscouter wrote...

1Minsc1 wrote...

@nod
1. you quote me wrong, red color
2. was it a claim or not? you said you made no claim. so what?
3. wrong, you can distrust another race and see them as superior, or not? or stay neutral?
you made a claim, i ask for evidence, you said you made no claim, you repeat the claim, still without evidence and by the way you insulting me. got it???

1 & 2: Actually, I no longer have any idea what you're talking about. If you can't speak English, you shouldn't be here.
3: Right, I may or may not have understood this one, it's really hard to read. You can distrust them and see your own race as superior. When did I ever say that distrusting others made them superior?
I did not make a claim, you think I did and ask for evidence, I say I did not make any claim, I change my argument so that your incredibly idiotic mind can finally undestand what I'm talking about. And no, I don't understand your last sentence. Try to talk through a translator or something.


no you are using different verbs, big difference!

#288
Guest_Nyoka_*

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"I don't think we're superior"
--Ashley Williams.

Modifié par Nyoka, 03 mai 2011 - 04:11 .


#289
lolwut666

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Let's stop discussing grammar in a Mass Effect thread, plox.

#290
Guest_Arcian_*

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jamesp81 wrote...

Never romanced Tali.

That's cool, man.

jamesp81 wrote...

Koris is still a dickbag.  Xen is still bat**** insane.  They're both on my kill list.

The Quarians should pursue peace.  But I have no use for a self-hating, arrogant ass like Koris.

That's like, your opinion, man.

#291
Nodscouter

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1Minsc1 wrote...

@Nodscouter

Nodscouter wrote...

1: Yes, let's blatantly ignore the analogy here, how convenient.
2: So, the problem here is semantics. How I do enjoy debating that.
Anyone who distrusts other races are a racist, they may not outright say that they think their race is superior, but it certainly implies that.
3: That completely depends on the situation. Age is not a valid argument for innocence.
I'll be going to bed now, and continue debating in circles in the morrow!

And this I already debunked. Do you enjoy bringing up topics you've already been defeated on?

1Minsc1 wrote...

Nodscouter wrote...

1Minsc1 wrote...

@nod
1. you quote me wrong, red color
2. was it a claim or not? you said you made no claim. so what?
3. wrong, you can distrust another race and see them as superior, or not? or stay neutral?
you made a claim, i ask for evidence, you said you made no claim, you repeat the claim, still without evidence and by the way you insulting me. got it???

1 & 2: Actually, I no longer have any idea what you're talking about. If you can't speak English, you shouldn't be here.
3: Right, I may or may not have understood this one, it's really hard to read. You can distrust them and see your own race as superior. When did I ever say that distrusting others made them superior?
I did not make a claim, you think I did and ask for evidence, I say I did not make any claim, I change my argument so that your incredibly idiotic mind can finally undestand what I'm talking about. And no, I don't understand your last sentence. Try to talk through a translator or something.


no you are using different verbs, big difference!

No, really, what are you talking about? You highlight your OWN post in relation to mine and accuse me of differing from your verb? What does this matter at f*cking at all?

#292
Siansonea

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lolwut666 wrote...

@Siansonea II

It's a quarian custom that the captain of the accused should stand for her. She couldn't say anything even if she wanted to.

Also, Rael'Zorah is dead. He doesn't matter anymore. If he was alive, I would agree with you, but he is dead, so it's not like he can be arrested and punished for what he did.

I think keeping the quarian society stable is more important than post-humously exiling him.


Tali obviously doesn't have a great deal of respect for quarian law, or she wouldn't conceal evidence of war crimes. So a breach of etiquette in a trial shouldn't be a stretch for her. And everyone seems to be basing the 'rightness' of the decision to conceal the evidence on maintaining the stability of the quarian government. First, it's impossible to know beforehand that revealing the evidence—doing the RIGHT thing, no matter what BioWare's Kool-Aid drinking writers say—will 'destabilize' the quarian government to the extent that it does in the game before it happens. I didn't see a crystal ball on the Alarei. Second of all, Shepard could have asked to speak privately with the Admirals and revealed the evidence to them outside of a public tribunal. It may have had the same result, but the fact remains that in order to get the 'good' result from a metagame standpoint, you have to LIE. I don't like that, and I don't like that Tali pushes for it, and I don't like that she's actually applauded for putting her devotion to her father's memory ahead of telling the TRUTH. It's PERJURY. And it's perjury in a trial when she herself is on trial for TREASON. In the real world, Shepard could be locked up for years for going along with these shenanigans. But the writers and the Tali fanbase just think "oh, the poor girl, she's been through so much." Well, yeah, she lost her father, but some quarian child lost his mommy on the Alarei thanks to Tali's dear old dad. Where's the sympathy for that kid?

Modifié par Siansonea II, 03 mai 2011 - 04:10 .


#293
Guest_Arcian_*

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jamesp81 wrote...

We're talking about a man who was willing to convict one of his own people of treason for political motivations.

****. Him.  What the hell kind of leader does this to his own people?  He was willing to destroy an innocent woman's life for his own goals.  HE DESERVES TO DIE FOR THIS CRIME.

DISPROPORTIONATE RETRIBUTION :o:happy:;):lol::P=]:D^_^:innocent:

#294
1Minsc1

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lolwut666 wrote...

Let's stop discussing grammar in a Mass Effect thread, plox.


this is not grammar, it is semantic. and its very important. racist is a highly morally connoted word!
and i think that´s the reaon why Ash-haters try everything to proof she a racist. of course they are simply wrong, they should just take a look in a dictionary and check the definition

#295
Nodscouter

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Grammar is semantics.
And once again, you defer to your holy dictionary. It's not right in everything it says! You can't treat it like a god!

Arcian wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

We're talking about a man who was willing to convict one of his own people of treason for political motivations.

****. Him.  What the hell kind of leader does this to his own people?  He was willing to destroy an innocent woman's life for his own goals.  HE DESERVES TO DIE FOR THIS CRIME.

DISPROPORTIONATE RETRIBUTION Image IPBImage IPBImage IPBImage IPBImage IPBImage IPBImage IPBImage IPBImage IPB

One of the few areas in which I support Koris. Innocents are expendable if you help the greater good. Not that I think he's helping the greater good though.

Modifié par Nodscouter, 03 mai 2011 - 04:13 .


#296
lolwut666

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@Siansonea II

But Rael'Zorah is dead!

He can't go to jail for the deaths of the quarians who were aboard the Alarei.

And, like I said, Tali knows quarian politics better than you do. If she says it'll affect the quarians, you have to believe it, because you lack her knowledge.

You say you need proof that giving the evidence to the Admiralty Board would destabilize the quarian society, but where's your proof that it would not?

#297
ImmortalWarrior

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Siansonea II wrote...

lolwut666 wrote...

@Siansonea II

It's a quarian custom that the captain of the accused should stand for her. She couldn't say anything even if she wanted to.

Also, Rael'Zorah is dead. He doesn't matter anymore. If he was alive, I would agree with you, but he is dead, so it's not like he can be arrested and punished for what he did.

I think keeping the quarian society stable is more important than post-humously exiling him.


Tali obviously doesn't have a great deal of respect for quarian law, or she wouldn't conceal evidence of war crimes. So a breach of etiquette in a trial shouldn't be a stretch for her. And everyone seems to be basing the 'rightness' of the decision to conceal the evidence on maintaining the stability of the quarian government. First, it's impossible to know beforehand that revealing the evidence—doing the RIGHT thing, no matter what BioWare's Kool-Aid drinking writers say—will 'destabilize' the quarian government to the extent that it does in the game before it happens. I didn't see a crystal ball on the Alarei. Second of all, Shepard could have asked to speak privately with the Admirals and revealed the evidence to them outside of a public tribunal. It may have had the same result, but the fact remains that in order to get the 'good' result from a metagame standpoint, you have to LIE. I don't like that, and I don't like that Tali pushes for it, and I don't like that she's actually applauded for putting her devotion to her father's memory ahead of telling the TRUTH. It's PERJURY. And it's perjury in a trial when she herself is on trial for TREASON. In the real world, Shepard could be locked up for years for going along with these shenanigans. But the writers and the Tali fanbase just think "oh, the poor girl, she's been through so much." Well, yeah, she lost her father, but some quarian child lost his mommy on the Alarei thanks to Tali's dear old dad. Where's the sympathy for that kid?


"First, it's impossible to know beforehand that revealing the
evidence—doing the RIGHT thing, no matter what BioWare's Kool-Aid
drinking writers say—will 'destabilize' the quarian government to the
extent that it does in the game before it happens"

Tali says it likely will, and you should have reason to beleive her as she understands quarians better than you, as a human, do.

"Second of all, Shepard could have asked to speak privately with the
Admirals and revealed the evidence to them outside of a public tribunal."

You're assuming they would entertain the idea.  Koris tried to throw you out saying that, as a human, you had no right to represent her.  Their actions weren't based on reason, that much is clear.  You cannot reasonably assume that they would allow this because they are being totally unpredictable.  Even Shala'Raan had to hide the fact that Tali's father was likely dead just to ensure the impact to Tali was clearly visible.  Why did Shala have to do that when, clearly, the Admiralty are a very reasonable group of people? That question is rhetorical.

"you have to LIE. I don't like that, and I don't like that Tali pushes
for it, and I don't like that she's actually applauded for putting her
devotion to her father's memory ahead of telling the TRUTH."

You don't have to lie, it is entirely your choice.  It is pretty clear to most people that best choice is to keep the evidence to yourself for the reasons explained earlier by several of us.  Bioware thinks you are wrong, and Shepard at that point, has all the evidence he needs to make an informed decision about whether to reveal it or not.

Modifié par ImmortalWarrior, 03 mai 2011 - 04:23 .


#298
1Minsc1

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@nod
wiki.: In linguistics, grammar is the set of structural rules that govern the composition of clauses, phrases, and words in any given natural language. The term refers also to the study of such rules, and this field includes morphology, syntax, and phonology, often complemented by phonetics, semantics, and pragmatics. Linguists do not normally use the term to refer to orthographical rules, although usage books and style guides that call themselves grammars may also refer to spelling and punctuation.

Semantics (from Greek sēmantiká, neuter plural of sēmantikós)[1][2] is the study of meaning. It typically focuses on the relation between signifiers, such as words, phrases, signs and symbols, and what they stand for, their denotata.

again, you don´t know what you are talking about

Modifié par 1Minsc1, 03 mai 2011 - 04:37 .


#299
Guest_Arcian_*

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The butthurt must flow.

I'm taking my leave, it's obvious this thread isn't going anywhere. Good evening.

#300
Siansonea

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lolwut666 wrote...

@Siansonea II

But Rael'Zorah is dead!

He can't go to jail for the deaths of the quarians who were aboard the Alarei.

And, like I said, Tali knows quarian politics better than you do. If she says it'll affect the quarians, you have to believe it, because you lack her knowledge.

You say you need proof that giving the evidence to the Admiralty Board would destabilize the quarian society, but where's your proof that it would not?


So, because something "might" destabilize quarian society, that's a good enough reason to commit perjury? Well, that's convenient. I would argue that in a case like this, not committing perjury is the right course of action. Unless there is a crystal ball somewhere that I don't know about. And even then, I would like a "you quarians fight it out" option to wash my hands of the whole situation.

And I find it odd that just because Rael'Zorah is dead, he no longer has to be held responsible for his actions in life. Why should his unblemished memory as a quarian Admiral be allowed to continue, when he knowingly and willingly broke quarian law and got a lot of people killed in the process? Riddle me that.