437 réponses à ce sujet

[Siansonea]

Clonedzero wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Please, let's not let this thread devolve into a Tali-bashing thread. That's not it's purpose.

i was responding to someones reply oh glorious fake mod.

Somebody's a bit touchy today?

There are ways to say things that don't come across as bashing, and that's the preferred way of communicating if your goal is to actually have an intelligent conversation. If you just want people to know that you hate Tali and she sux!!!!...well, mission accomplished, I guess. Thanks for playing.

yeah, ignore all my actual reasons for disliking her and reduce everything i said to "i hate tali and she sux!!!" if thats what it takes for you to feel superior, well mission accomplished, i guess. thanks for playing.

Well, for your information, I also dislike the Tali character. I find her to be a character that is portrayed as superficially spunky, but ultimately a helpless damsel-in-distress who has to rely on the protagonist/avatar-for-the-player to rescue her in most of the situations the player encounters her. When we first meet Tali on the Citadel, she's on the run from Saren, seeking the protection of the Shadow Broker, and needs Shepard to rescue her from Fist's thugs. She then joins the crew and plays no further pivotal role in the events of ME1. One could say that Garrus doesn't play a pivotal role in the game either, and they'd be correct. Even Wrex's contribution to the game isn't crucial, since he and Garrus don't even HAVE to be recruited. Only Liara, Kaidan and Ashley seem to have a significant contribution to the overall story, other than Shepard, in ME1. Tali's just along for the ride. Okay, no big deal. But then the Talimancer Phenomenon dominates the conversation on the ME1 boards. And it becomes clear very quickly that there are a lot of them, that on the average they are very young, and that they are clamoring for Moar Tali louder than anyone else is clamoring for anything else.

Then in ME2, Fan Favorite Tali is front and center on Freedom's Progress, as if BioWare was worried that Tali fans wouldn't even finish the game if they didn't receive immediate reassurance that she would be present in the game. And what is she doing? Not keeping Prazza in line, I'll tell you that. Once again, Shepard has to save the day and find Veetor for her, even if Tali herself was never in any real danger on Freedom's Progress.

Then there's Haestrom, and Tali is pinned down by geth, and even Kal'Reeger acts like she's a princess who must be rescued and protected. But who saves her? Shepard, again. Kal'Reeger all but kneels and kisses her ring, he's so deferential. And she's really just a random quarian girl, only a couple years past her pilgrimage. Maybe she's the daughter of an Admiral, maybe she's a better-than-average hacker, but puh-leeze.

Then she's being threatened with exile by her own people, and once again, Shepard has to save her from an awful fate. And how does Shepard do that? By helping Tali cover up her father's war crimes. Yes, everything Rael'Zorah was doing aboard the Alarei was against quarian law, punishable by exile, their highest punishment since they don't have the death penalty. Not because the quarians think geth are people or anything, but because of the danger to the fleet. But does Tali ask Shepard to tell the truth out of a sense of justice for the people who died under Rael'Zorah's watch? No, she just wants to protect her father's memory, and I guess justice for the dead on the Alarei isn't part of the equation in her mind. Shepard can either omit Rael'Zorah's actions from the proceedings and allow Tali to be exiled in his place, or bluster past the issue by distracting them with rhetoric. But if Shepard does the ethical thing, if Shepard tells the truth about what happened on the Alarei, then Tali is 'disloyal'. Frankly, I don't like that. Her father gets a pass for perpetrating war crimes, getting a whole shipload of people killed, and why? Because she "loves" him? That says something very ugly about Tali's mindset if you ask me. Even if you DON'T think geth are 'people'.

The bottom line is that Tali feels, and her actions follow from her emotions, with no thought for the moral and ethical implications of her actions. And people are so enraptured by their own feelings for her exotic accent, her coquettish bashful flirting, and her pretty(?) face and amazing hips that they give no thought for those moral and ethical implications EITHER.

THAT'S why I dislike Tali.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 03 mai 2011 - 01:01 .

[Alphyn]

Siansonea II wrote...

Please, let's not let this thread devolve into a Tali-bashing thread. That's not it's purpose.

Siansonea II wrote...

THAT'S why I dislike Tali.

Modifié par Alphyn, 03 mai 2011 - 01:07 .

[Someone With Mass]

Lol.

[PMC65]

yorkj86 wrote...

Tali may be unqualified/unfit for combat, due to her lack-of-experience, but she's not going to get any better, if you don't "train" her in combat. In fact, she might even be more of a liability on the suicide mission, if you don't expose her to combat.

No she lived ... she was my little escorting the survivors gal.

[Someone With Mass]

Just for the record, Tali did receive military combat training during her time on the fleet.

[Alphyn]

michaelrsa wrote...

Eh, Tali is my tech person, not my soldier. She was never meant to fight head on with mercenaries. Her role is to provide support.

This.

[Golden Owl]

ImmortalWarrior wrote...

Back to some previous posts.  Someone mentioned that they don't think Garrus or Tali's relationship to Shepard as an LI is believable.  I think you are stuck in highschool.  Adult relationships don't have to be "omg I am so crushing on that guy right now, should I call him/text him/ask him out OMG OMGOMG *giggles*".  Real relationships can develop from friendships.  I have had that experience as well as the previous, I was good friends with someone through the first years of highschool and we ended up together as a couple for almost 4 years.  The way it came out that we were interested in each other as more then friends was, in-fact, as awkward and lol worthy as the way Tali reacts in hers.  And yes...we did laugh about the revelation between us afterwards because of the way it played out.

This I agree with...never have gone through the *crushing on a stranger* thing myself....I have always had to know someone first and the attraction builds from there....so Tali and Garrus make a lot more sense to me personally than any of the others.

[Someone With Mass]

michaelrsa wrote...

Eh, Tali is my tech person, not my soldier. She was never meant to fight head on with mercenaries. Her role is to provide support.

And her drone does a good job at that.

[ImmortalWarrior]

I'm so flabbergasted by the stupidity, lack of facts, and lack of common sense in this thread that I say only this. Lol haters.

[Siansonea]

Alphyn wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Please, let's not let this thread devolve into a Tali-bashing thread. That's not it's purpose.

Siansonea II wrote...

THAT'S why I dislike Tali.

Stating reasons for disliking various characters is the purpose of this thread. How you say it is important. Nothing in my post can be construed as Tali-bashing, unless one is very, VERY sensitive to criticism of the character.

[Siansonea]

ImmortalWarrior wrote...

I'm so flabbergasted by the stupidity, lack of facts, and lack of common sense in this thread that I say only this. Lol haters.

Instead of doing that, why don't you cite, then refute, all of these instances of stupidity, lack of facts, and lack of common sense? That would be much more beneficial to the conversation. "Lol haters" contributes very little.

[Alphyn]

Siansonea II wrote...

Stating reasons for disliking various characters is the purpose of this thread. How you say it is important. Nothing in my post can be construed as Tali-bashing, unless one is very, VERY sensitive to criticism of the character.

You bashed, not constructively criticized.

[Siansonea]

Golden Owl wrote...

ImmortalWarrior wrote...

Back to some previous posts.  Someone mentioned that they don't think Garrus or Tali's relationship to Shepard as an LI is believable.  I think you are stuck in highschool.  Adult relationships don't have to be "omg I am so crushing on that guy right now, should I call him/text him/ask him out OMG OMGOMG *giggles*".  Real relationships can develop from friendships.  I have had that experience as well as the previous, I was good friends with someone through the first years of highschool and we ended up together as a couple for almost 4 years.  The way it came out that we were interested in each other as more then friends was, in-fact, as awkward and lol worthy as the way Tali reacts in hers.  And yes...we did laugh about the revelation between us afterwards because of the way it played out.

This I agree with...never have gone through the *crushing on a stranger* thing myself....I have always had to know someone first and the attraction builds from there....so Tali and Garrus make a lot more sense to me personally than any of the others.

I've actually never had a problem with the "sudden" aspect of the Garrus/Tali romances, if anything those romances suffer from the same problem of the other ME2 romances: brevity and lack of 'flow'. In and of themselves, they aren't totally off the wall.

[Siansonea]

Alphyn wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Stating reasons for disliking various characters is the purpose of this thread. How you say it is important. Nothing in my post can be construed as Tali-bashing, unless one is very, VERY sensitive to criticism of the character.

You bashed, not constructively criticized.

I disagree.

[Alphyn]

Siansonea II wrote...

I disagree.

You generalized everyone who likes Tali.

[Siansonea]

michaelrsa wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
Instead of doing that, why don't you cite, then refute, all of these instances of stupidity, lack of facts, and lack of common sense? That would be much more beneficial to the conversation. "Lol haters" contributes very little.

Problem is that your dislike of Tali stems from her more emotional nature. It's understandable that you would think this way. I agree that Tali can be emotional at times and it can get a bit annoying to some degree, that's undeniable. However, it's difficult to argue fact in this regard.

Sure, Tali didn't want the evidence about her father turned in, but can you blame her? If you had evidence that your father, who I'm sure you love very dearly, was a traitor to his nation, would you turn it in?

Yes, I can blame her. And if my father was alive, and a traitor/war criminal, you'd better believe I WOULD turn him in. You know what they call a person who remains silent if they have knowledge of treason/criminal activity? An accomplice. A co-conspirator. A person who can be prosecuted in a court of law. So yes, if any of my family members really want to perpetrate crimes against the United States, they'd better not let me hear about it.

Let's contrast Tali's situation with Samara's. Samara's own daughter turned out to have a genetic defect that rendered her at a high risk of becoming a relentless serial killer. In spite of the knowledge of her condition, Mirala/Morinth chose to escape the authorities and became the very thing everyone feared she would become. Rather than wallow in self-pity or other emotions, Samara chose to do the hardest thing possible. She took it upon herself to become a recognized agent of justice, a process that required her to give up everything in her life, including her relationship with her other two daughters. Samara could have done the easy thing, and just continued to live her life while someone else—or no one else—tried to stop Morinth's murder spree. But Samara completed her Justicar training and spent 400 years pursuing her daughter, with no guarantee that she would ever be successful in her quest to rid the galaxy of the monster that she had unwittingly given birth to. That's maturity, that's taking responsibility, and that's not taking the easy way out because of 'feelings'. And Samara completes her duty without hesitation or regret, because it was the right thing to do. That's the kind of person who truly deserves respect.

So often people use their emotions as excuses for their bad behavior, and Tali's situation is just an in-game example of a dynamic that bothers me a great deal in real life.

[Siansonea]

Alphyn wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I disagree.

You generalized everyone who likes Tali.

No, I stated my perception of the majority of Tali fans whose actions I had witnessed. Perhaps that wasn't clear, if so, then I did not phrase my statements properly.

[Alphyn]

Sia, you know that the evidence rips the Fleet apart, right? The flotilla starts to disband because they all have differing views on Rael's experiments.

Tali wants you to with-hold it so that the Fleet is safe and remains united.

[Siansonea]

Alphyn wrote...

Sia, you know that the evidence rips the Fleet apart, right? The flotilla starts to disband because they all have differing views on Rael's experiments.

Tali wants you to with-hold it so that the Fleet is safe and remains united.

That's an argument after the fact. Shepard might have some inkling of the various Admiral's stances if Shepard goes and speaks to them all, but Shepard doesn't "know" the outcome of telling the truth before it happens. Shepard might have come back from the dead, but as far as I know, Shepard can't predict the future. And Tali's pleas, if I recall correctly, seem to be more about 'his name being stricken from the manifest of every ship he ever served on' than the stability of the quarian people. If Tali had made an argument on that basis, and cited the specifics of the precarious interrelationships between the Admiralty Board, that would be a somewhat different story. I do recognize that sometimes secrets have to be kept for 'national security' purposes, but generally the people who make that call are the ones who are running the government, who in this case would be the Admirals. Not random citizens like Tali, and certainly not foreign nationals like Shepard.