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[Confused-Shepard]

V-rex wrote...

1Minsc1 wrote...

Great job BW!
There are more people wondering how to kick the VS-ass, then wondering how to defend against the reapers

Didn't you hear?
Defending trillions of innocent lives is secondary to being mad at people who hurt your fragile ego.

Actually I couldn't care less about the VS. 
What's that? You want to apologize? Could it wait for a bit, I'm in the middle of SAVING THE GALAXY!
Do not think for a moment I give a damn about some Alliance grunt when the galaxy is in peril 

[008Zulu]

Lizardviking wrote...

Ashley was only useful at the lower levels from a gameplay perspective. After you get higher up, she gets more and more useless.

The lack of biotics certainly weighed against her, but since the teams only real use was keeping bullets from hitting you, staying power is very helpful.

[Antivenger]

1Minsc1 wrote...

I must admit my MShep (LI Ash->VS Ash) was very ... upset after Horizon. But more than all good Arguments posted here it was ONE word in the mail that changed his mind... She calls him SKIPPER again. Thats all he need to know.

Consider Shep's heart melted.

As for her gameplay skills, I took her on every mission for her prowess as a soldier. Along with Wrex for my Infiltrator and Garrus for my Vanguard to complement my Shep's skillsets.

It would be cool if she were upgraded as an Infiltrator, but Nihlus did good as a pure soldier SpecTRe. Ya know, Nihlus who was also blacklisted in his military. The Nihlus who also built a camaraderie/mentor-protege relationship with another SpecTRe of his own species. Nihlus who became a SpecTRe only a year after that!

Modifié par Antivenger, 01 mai 2011 - 11:55 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

008Zulu wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Ashley was only useful at the lower levels from a gameplay perspective. After you get higher up, she gets more and more useless.

The lack of biotics certainly weighed against her, but since the teams only real use was keeping bullets from hitting you, staying power is very helpful.

No. The squad only real use was keeping the enemy incapable of fighting, which is why Kaidan and Liara totally dominated the game in the higher levels. And even then, barrier was decent enough for them to stay in the fight.

[AresXX7]

1Minsc1 wrote...

Great job BW!
There are more people wondering how to kick the VS-ass, then wondering how to defend against the reapers

This goes to show they really dropped the ball by having the VS send an apologetic email, afterwards, only if they were a L.I. in the first game.

That and, as others have said countless times, not using better dialogue options during the convo on Horizon.

[1Minsc1]

Confused-Shepard wrote...

V-rex wrote...

1Minsc1 wrote...

Great job BW!
There are more people wondering how to kick the VS-ass, then wondering how to defend against the reapers

Didn't you hear?
Defending trillions of innocent lives is secondary to being mad at people who hurt your fragile ego.

Actually I couldn't care less about the VS. 
What's that? You want to apologize? Could it wait for a bit, I'm in the middle of SAVING THE GALAXY!
Do not think for a moment I give a damn about some Alliance grunt when the galaxy is in peril 

The VS is my MShep´s LI. And she already apologized. So thinks are a little complicated.

[SennenScale]

Lizardviking wrote...

No. The squad only real use was keeping the enemy incapable of fighting, which is why Kaidan and Liara totally dominated the game in the higher levels. And even then, barrier was decent enough for them to stay in the fight.

The squad fulfills different purposes for different Sheps. My squishy wizard, the adept, in early levels needed the tanks to live. I need to manage my own powers, so babysitting Liara and Kaidan wasn't an option. Once I was high enough level to not be so squishy, I dominated the battlefield very well on my own and still didn't feel like babysitting biotic squadmates, so the tanks were still good. Especially with upgraded assault riles and armor.

Modifié par SennenScale, 01 mai 2011 - 11:57 .

[corporal doody]

slap assault rifle on a adept and Ash is obsolete...gameplay wise anyways. but lore-wise for me.... i usually let Kaidan die...cuz he finally "Man Upped" picked Liara as a love interest...and didnt see eye to eye with Ashley...maybe it is some kinda catty thing...dunno...never treated her bad..just didnt care much for her.

[1Minsc1]

Take cover!!! Geth in front of me!!!

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

SennenScale wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

No. The squad only real use was keeping the enemy incapable of fighting, which is why Kaidan and Liara totally dominated the game in the higher levels. And even then, barrier was decent enough for them to stay in the fight.

The squad fulfills different purposes for different Sheps. My squishy wizard, the adept, in early levels needed the tanks to live. I need to manage my own powers, so babysitting Liara and Kaidan wasn't an option. Once I was high enough level to not be so squishy, I dominated the battlefield very well on my own and still didn't feel like babysitting biotic squadmates, so the tanks were still good. Especially with upgraded assault riles and armor.

But by the endgame why didn't you simply use Wrex + Garrus. Or simply take the other "wizards" with you and be able to keep the enemy in constant lockdown?

But this arguement is kinda pointless. I am glad ME2 buffed combat oriented squadmates, so I am sure Ash will be much more kick-ass in ME3.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 01 mai 2011 - 12:05 .

[1Minsc1]

corporal doody wrote...

slap assault rifle on a adept and Ash is obsolete...gameplay wise anyways. but lore-wise for me.... i usually let Kaidan die...cuz he finally "Man Upped" picked Liara as a love interest...and didnt see eye to eye with Ashley...maybe it is some kinda catty thing...dunno...never treated her bad..just didnt care much for her.

now that´s real leadership

[Pani Mauser]

It is worth remembering that according to Ashley (I'm going to keep using Ashley as an example as she's my VS and it's easier than referring to two people as one) she had tried to talk to Anderson about Shepard she had been stone walled. I.E even if you did report to the Council before Horizon, she wasn't told about it and didn't know more than what was reported.
So in essence she was still left out of the loop and in the dark.

And she didn't even think that there might be a reason why no one tells her anything? If Shep was outright criminal, why hide it? She knows Shep used to be a Spectre. So, maybe, s/he was sent to infiltrate Cerberus or something like that? Hell, even Shep's mother comes to a conclusion that her child is doing some classified job and that's why s/he couldn't let her know that s/he is alive.

I think that what you've found here is a plot hole. There's no way civilians should be able to know that Shepard's alive, nor for that matter know the email address of someone they only interacted with very briefly.

No plot hole here. My Shep has spoken to Khalisah Bint Sinan al-Jilani, news repoter. So, Shep got on TV. And as I understood from the first game, her TV-show is pretty popular and it is broadcasted at least all over council Space. So, in my game everyone saw Shepard returning.

As for e-mails, there’s an explanation on how civilians got the address. Udina gave Shep's e-mail to Samesh Bhatia, and Kate Bowman says she 'called in some favours' to get Sheps' e-mail.

Only fair if the VS is in turn allowed to call Shepard an idiot for his/her wooden emotionless bone headed responses on Horizon in the first place.

I will be happy if BW gives us a chance to clear the air. Let it involve shouting at each other etc, if the player wants it. I just don't want to be forced to say "I missed you so much, welcome aboard".

The main reason for my anger at Horizon situation was inability to act how I wanted. I wanted to hug Ash (I usually save the same-gender person on Virmire, so no romance here), but all I got "it's been too long", I wanted to tell that I don't work for Cerberus, but instead I got stupid "I'd only do it for right reason". I wanted to tell that I'm a Spectre again and I'm not an enemy, but there was no such option. It felt like the PRG somehow turned in ordinary action game where you don't control the character and the story doesn't depend on you at all. Then again, maybe it is deliberate decision on BW side to make people feel this way, I don’t know.

Maybe they have something planned for this, a twist that should suddenly make you love the VS even more, but unfortunately I’m that horrible kind of person who can’t never like again those who disappointed me, no matter what they do afterwards. If the bond is broken, it is broken forever. And as I roleplay Shepard as myself, there’s nothing the writers can do to make me happy about VS on board. So if I’m forced to have VS on the ship (and VS is already confirmed as permanent squadmate), I want at least to make clear in the game that I’m not happy about this, and VS is here only because the mission is bigger than Shep’s personal feelings. And if VS hates me afterwards, so be it.

[SennenScale]

Lizardviking wrote...
simply take the other "wizards" with you and be able to keep the enemy in constant lockdown?

Because, as I said, I find babysitting their lower-health butts to be boring. I do crowd-control perfectly fine on my own and prefer to have my other party members shooting the enemies I'm keeping pinned in the air, since many biotic powers don't do damage. Why bother with constant lockdown if Ash/Wrex and Garrus shoot just fine without being prompted? I find fights end quicker if I pin 'em and my team slaughters 'em without being told to.

[Made Nightwing]

Ash is a tank in the first game. I don't use her a lot when I'm a soldier Shep, as she's made a little redundant, especially on higher difficulties. However, for a tech or biotic shep, she's the best selection. Slap a Master Immunity on her, and order her right into the fight, she's a freaking one man army

I might still have a video of her, when I activated her Master Immunity and Master Overkill, then ordered her to take on all of Benezia's commandos while I cowered in the corner Ashley spent five minutes kicking asari butt up and down the staircases.

[AresXX7]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Ash is a tank in the first game. I don't use her a lot when I'm a soldier Shep, as she's made a little redundant, especially on higher difficulties. However, for a tech or biotic shep, she's the best selection. Slap a Master Immunity on her, and order her right into the fight, she's a freaking one man army

I might still have a video of her, when I activated her Master Immunity and Master Overkill, then ordered her to take on all of Benezia's commandos while I cowered in the corner Ashley spent five minutes kicking asari butt up and down the staircases.

I agree with this, during the Ilos mission, both Ash & Wrex could take 2-3 hits from the Geth Armatures and still be standing.
Where-as my biotic/tech Shep was lucky to survive one hit.

[corporal doody]

1Minsc1 wrote...

corporal doody wrote...

slap assault rifle on a adept and Ash is obsolete...gameplay wise anyways. but lore-wise for me.... i usually let Kaidan die...cuz he finally "Man Upped" picked Liara as a love interest...and didnt see eye to eye with Ashley...maybe it is some kinda catty thing...dunno...never treated her bad..just didnt care much for her.

now that´s real leadership

i agree. leaders gotta make the tough decisions.  dont have to like
those you serve with, just need to know they will follow orders. and
even if you dislike that person, there is still that respect. when the
respect is gone than yup..there gonna be problems. Higher ranking personal dont have to converse with their juniors...but on the Normandy, Shep did. She wanted to know her crew. a little chit-chat here and there...but always professional with the professional. civilians, a little less..but the mutual respect existed.
...so Ash shows up in ME2...makes the snap decision..dont want to listen...doesnt matter what she did when Shep was dead...when it would have meant the most to know there would be some kind of support or acknowledgement...a sign of mutual respect for carrying on the good fight regardless of professional or personal biased...there was only disdain.

i concur wholeheartedly. i hope there is that option to argue with VS. maybe things work out...maybe they dont.

Modifié par corporal doody, 01 mai 2011 - 12:31 .

[1Minsc1]

corporal doody wrote...

1Minsc1 wrote...

corporal doody wrote...

slap assault rifle on a adept and Ash is obsolete...gameplay wise anyways. but lore-wise for me.... i usually let Kaidan die...cuz he finally "Man Upped" picked Liara as a love interest...and didnt see eye to eye with Ashley...maybe it is some kinda catty thing...dunno...never treated her bad..just didnt care much for her.

now that´s real leadership

i agree. leaders gotta make the tough decisions.  dont have to like
those you serve with, just need to know they will follow orders. and
even if you dislike that person, there is still that respect. when the
respect is gone than yup..there gonna be problems. Higher ranking personal dont have to converse with their juniors...but on the Normandy, Shep did. She wanted to know her crew. a little chit-chat here and there...but always professional with the professional. civilians, a little less..but the mutual respect existed.
...so Ash shows up in ME2...makes the snap decision..dont want to listen...doesnt matter what she did when Shep was dead...when it would have meant the most to know there would be some kind of support or acknowledgement...a sign of mutual respect for carrying on the good fight regardless of professional or personal biased...there was only disdain.

i concur wholeheartedly. i hope there is that option to argue with VS. maybe things work out...maybe they dont.

I meant it sarcastic. Letting a teammember die because he could become a rival???
In ME2 Shep is not Ash´s commander. He isn´t still Alliance, or?
In ME1 she mad perfectly clear that she follows all his orders except illegal ones.
Disdain??? I don´t  know Kaidan´s reaction, but Ash was not disdainfull. She was confused and frightend of that what she thougt Shep became, a Cerberus, an enemy of the Alliance. In this situation she reacted like a soldier.

I have never been "in duty" (correct words?) but I think chain of command gives just an illusion of control. And a lot of real wars show, i would be better juniors would doubt their commands and not execute them... but I´am getting offtopic

Modifié par 1Minsc1, 01 mai 2011 - 01:01 .

[corporal doody]

1Minsc1 wrote...



I meant it sarcastic. Letting a teammember die because he could become a rival???
In ME2 Shep is not Ash´s commander. He isn´t still Alliance, or?
In ME1 she mad perfectly clear that she follows all his orders except illegal ones.
I have never been "in duty" (correct words?) but I think chain of command gives just an illusion of control. And a lot of real wars show, i would be better juniors would doubt their commands and not execute them...

i never said kaidan was a rival. he wasnt. he was just the better choice for me and didnt have to worry bout him getting the job done.

that last part....i dunno. Illusion? it doesnt matter whether those in charge are the dumbest no leading individuals..they ARE in command.  the consequences for disobeying LAWFUL orders is severe and most will NEVER place you in a position were you have to disobey them or compromise your integrity  

[Slayer299]

Made Nightwing wrote...
I heard that in DA2, you can make one or two of your squadmates Grey Wardens. Would like to see something like that in ME3, particularly with Ash and Garrus.

It's not as cool as that sounds, you can make your sibling a GW and then you don't see them until 3 years later and that meeting is for about all of 30 seconds, during which they let you know they hate your guts for making them a GW without their consent (they are dying at the time). Not a good thing there so I don't think I'd want that for Ash or Garrus myself.

[Slayer299]

I want the VS (Ash) back on my squad, I really like her, but there had better be a confrontation scene (or two) about Horizon though. That needs to be addressed between Shep and the VS and not just ignored/swept under the rug.

[SennenScale]

Slayer299 wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...
I heard that in DA2, you can make one or two of your squadmates Grey Wardens. Would like to see something like that in ME3, particularly with Ash and Garrus.

It's not as cool as that sounds, you can make your sibling a GW and then you don't see them until 3 years later and that meeting is for about all of 30 seconds, during which they let you know they hate your guts for making them a GW without their consent (they are dying at the time). Not a good thing there so I don't think I'd want that for Ash or Garrus myself.

To be fair, being a grey warden cuts off your life by a large chunk, has a high chance of killing you right off the bat, turns you into a darkspawn if you survive long enough, and saddles you with the responsibility of dealing Archdemons through either Deus Sex Machina or death.

Spectres can do whatever they want, however they want and go anywhere, as long as they don't betray the galaxy and fulfill missons as they see fit.

Plus I doubt Shepard will make anyone a Spectre personally. Does't have the authority.

[AquamanOS]

If anything I respect Ash/Kaiden and Hackett and Anderson for sticking to their guns and trying to get proof to get the Council/Alliance moving on the Reaper problem instead of dropping everything and signing up the murderous terrorist organization once things became hard.

It's easy to be the good guy when things are on your side, but it takes real resolve to stick to it when the system is fighting you.

[Slayer299]

SennenScale wrote...
To be fair, being a grey warden cuts off your life by a large chunk, has a high chance of killing you right off the bat, turns you into a darkspawn if you survive long enough, and saddles you with the responsibility of dealing Archdemons through either Deus Sex Machina or death.

Spectres can do whatever they want, however they want and go anywhere, as long as they don't betray the galaxy and fulfill missons as they see fit.

Plus I doubt Shepard will make anyone a Spectre personally. Does't have the authority.

I didn't mean Shep could make any Spectre's, I meant the death and hating you part. Yeah, true about making them a GW but its not like death was a better alternative for them and you'd think they'd be a *little* bit understanding on that part. But at least if you have Bethany/Carver taken by the Circle/Templars you can sort things out with them by the end though.

[1Minsc1]

corporal doody wrote...

.... i usually let Kaidan die...cuz he finally "Man Upped" picked Liara as a love interest...

???
so i must get you wrong

edit: a few minutes thinking    got you point... My MShep saved the one at the nuke. Making sure it detonate.

Modifié par 1Minsc1, 01 mai 2011 - 01:27 .

[SennenScale]

Slayer299 wrote...

I didn't mean Shep could make any Spectre's, I meant the death and hating you part. Yeah, true about making them a GW but its not like death was a better alternative for them and you'd think they'd be a *little* bit understanding on that part. But at least if you have Bethany/Carver taken by the Circle/Templars you can sort things out with them by the end though.

I was just pointing out that being a warden is slightly different from being a spectre. That particular circumstance can't quite be replicated in ME3 without plot-fu, eye-rolling and an obligatory "Really, Bioware?" in your best EDI impression.

Then again, many Bioware games do play out like slightly different versions of the same story.

Modifié par SennenScale, 01 mai 2011 - 01:19 .