39 réponses à ce sujet

[HSHAW]

Would it be possible to reproduce it and mass produce it for use as a magical landmine?

[-Skorpious-]

I'm seriously hoping Justice, not his apostate container, played a critical role in the bombs production. Power on that scale would trivialize any threat (even the Archdemon) if mass produced.

[Sussurus]

No magic was involved at least that's what he said...however the special FX blow up would say otherwise.

Also of note is that the ingrediants you collect were a massive gve away.
Salt peter, sulpher... add charcol you have blackpowder.
He may have added lyrium, but I'd say the amount that he used given the awakenings explosives was massive, or akin to the idol.

Myself I'd say that the cutscene boom was more likely done for wow factor, that its effects are not repeatable often.
The actual power and destructive force, yes Qunari, dwarves and wardens would be able to do such in a more common fashion imo.

Modifié par Sussurus, 01 mai 2011 - 03:27 .

[TEWR]

how do people know sela petrae = salt peter?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

When did he say no magic was involved?

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 01 mai 2011 - 06:14 .

[Sussurus]

When you query him on the ingredients... no eye of newt is one of the picks.

Hawke then asks.. no virgins are to be sacrificed.. or some such.
Anders says no magic is involved, and no blood magic.
"just mix the formula and then boom, Justice and I are free."

Modifié par Sussurus, 01 mai 2011 - 09:02 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

That was when he was lying about what it was.

[ajm317]

Sussurus wrote...

When you query him on the ingredients... no eye of newt is one of the picks.

Hawke then asks.. no virgins are to be sacrificed.. or some such.
Anders says no magic is involved, and no blood magic.
"just mix the formula and then boom, Justice and I are free."

Anders lies to you through that entire part of the quest.  There is no reason to believe anything he says.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

how do people know sela petrae = salt peter?

Because the name sounds like saltpeter (in fact in Latin saltpeter is sal petræ) and it is produced the same way that saltpeter is produced (from feces and urine) .

Also because the 2nd ingredient is a "yellow stone" which is obviously sulfur.  Taken together the intent by the writers is clear.

Modifié par ajm317, 01 mai 2011 - 09:04 .

[Sussurus]

Sorry I lept the fade on this... he states "no blood magic."
He never states "no magic", and even points out the dangers of the magic involved.
So it would seem magic was involved, just not what it was beyond alchemy.

I got it wrong, but as you say he lies anyway.. badly but still once a liar.

"boom Justice and I will be free." is not a lie just a very obvious give away once you've played the game.

Note to self check dialogue before posting.

Modifié par Sussurus, 01 mai 2011 - 09:08 .

[Wulfram]

He says he"took a spirit inside my soul and changed myself forever to achieve this". Doesn't sound like something anyone with an understanding of chemistry could replicate.

[HSHAW]

Wulfram wrote...

He says he"took a spirit inside my soul and changed myself forever to achieve this". Doesn't sound like something anyone with an understanding of chemistry could replicate.

There's nothing stopping Anders from making more of them if you spare him.

[Plaintiff]

As a magical landmine? No. As a small nuke? Perhaps.

[HSHAW]

Plaintiff wrote...

As a magical landmine? No. As a small nuke? Perhaps.

Either way, they would be extremely useful in the Mage-Templar war for the mages.

[TEWR]

they would be useful in the mage-templar war. But they'd be even more useful against the Darkspawn.

also, thanks for the clarification on sela petrae = saltpeter ajm317

[Nepenthe87]

ajm317 wrote...

Sussurus wrote...

When you query him on the ingredients... no eye of newt is one of the picks.

Hawke then asks.. no virgins are to be sacrificed.. or some such.
Anders says no magic is involved, and no blood magic.
"just mix the formula and then boom, Justice and I are free."

Anders lies to you through that entire part of the quest.  There is no reason to believe anything he says.

the last line isnt so much a lie straight to hawke's face as it is a lie of omission

"just mix the formula and boom [goes the chantry] and justice and I are free"

[Sussurus]

Wulfram wrote...

He says he"took a spirit inside my soul and changed myself forever to achieve this". Doesn't sound like something anyone with an understanding of chemistry could replicate.

I think that line was specific to Justice joining him to free the mages of oppression, not the means to make the bomb.

If Anders took Justice into himself to make a bomb and blow the Chantry up from the start, it would make him far worse than any bloodmage, almost up there with Meredith.

I think Anders planned for mass support an underground railway and freedom through attrition and public opinion shift.
Mixed with direct attacks on those templars crossing lines and not being held accountable.
Just a shame that he landed in Kirkwall, where it was a storm of the worst practices and few cared or could do anything to help.

However who knows what Justice had planned, if you take the rival approach Justice pretty much shows he is in charge.
That Anders has no control of himself often, and large portions are blanked from his memory.

[TobiTobsen]

Even if you let Anders go at the end of the game, I'm pretty sure that Dworkin the Mad or the Qunari will hunt and kill him for that explosion. Can't accept some apostate fool as business competition.

[Sussurus]

Oh boy a mad dwarf or Qunari justice, I bet he'll wish he made a pact with a desire demon after those options.

[JnEricsonx]

Even I posted my comment on sela petrae=saltpeter, based on how you gather it, and drakestone being like sulphur, so, again, just figured Anders built himself a bomb, and then magicked the Maker outta it.

[element eater]

I thought the bomb was over the top, just seems to break the world abit if people can make something as powerful as that. why don they just chuck aload down the deep roads?

Modifié par element eater, 02 mai 2011 - 12:07 .

[HSHAW]

element eater wrote...

I thought the bomb was over the top, just seems to break the world abit if people can make something as powerful as that. why don they just chuck aload down the deep roads?

To be fair, the Deep Roads are under most of Thedas, making it impossible to completely wipe them out with the bombs.

Also, It would probably cause all sorts of problems if massive sections of the Deep Roads were blown up, causing chasms in the middle of trade routes, destroying farms etc.

That and the Dwarves would probably prefer to reclaim the Deep Roads.

Modifié par HSHAW, 02 mai 2011 - 12:31 .

[appleyum]

My question is why he didn't place it in the Templar HQ or near it. There's no way he would have missed Meredith with that kind of bomb

Modifié par appleyum, 02 mai 2011 - 03:35 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

appleyum wrote...
My question is why he didn't place it in the Templar HQ or near it. There's no way he would have missed Meredith with that kind of bomb

He specifically wanted to start a war.  As such he needed both parties to contribute to it while eliminating the possibility of compromise.

[Beerfish]

appleyum wrote...

My question is why he didn't place it in the Templar HQ or near it. There's no way he would have missed Meredith with that kind of bomb

He probably didn't want to kill a lot of mages as well.

[LobselVith8]

ajm317 wrote...

Sussurus wrote...

When you query him on the ingredients... no eye of newt is one of the picks.

Hawke then asks.. no virgins are to be sacrificed.. or some such.
Anders says no magic is involved, and no blood magic.
"just mix the formula and then boom, Justice and I are free."

Anders lies to you through that entire part of the quest.  There is no reason to believe anything he says.

Anders expects to die for what he's done... so technically, Justice and Anders will be seperated when Hawke kills him.

ajm317 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

how do people know sela petrae = salt peter?

Because the name sounds like saltpeter (in fact in Latin saltpeter is sal petræ) and it is produced the same way that saltpeter is produced (from feces and urine) .

Also because the 2nd ingredient is a "yellow stone" which is obviously sulfur.  Taken together the intent by the writers is clear.

Maybe Anders is building on information initially provided by Dworkin the Mad and Justice could have had some knowledge because of his longevity as a Spirit. The demon Audacity claimed to have knowledge about how the ancient elves of Arlathan built the Eluvians, so Justice could have similar knowledge from his long life and looking into the dreams of mortals in the Fade.