216 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

So it doesn't matter if the mages are / were from the Circle, they aren't currently sitting in the Gallows so it doesn't count.

[Plaintiff]

TJPags wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

The Right of Annulment was utterly unnecessary. Even if every single mage in the Gallows was a blood mage, blood magic is not inherently evil, nor does Orsino or any other (currently living) mage that we know of have any sort of plans to start summoning demons or turning people into abominations.

The Grand Cleric has the right to anull the circle if she rules it irredeemable. Because of her sudden death, that power defaults to Meredith, who was always an Archdemon short of a Blight and her insanity has only been further exacerbated by the influence of the lyrium idol. She is not fit to make this decision and it shows.

The fact that her suspicions turn out to be somewhat correct is irrelevent. At the time of calling for the Right, she had no evidence whatsoever and the blood mages in the Circle only reveal themselves as such in response to Meredith's cray-zay.

While I personally agree with you, in the world of Thedas blood magic is outlawed.  It is absolutely grounds for death, and if the Circle was overrun with blood mages, it's grounds for an Anullment.

Yes, but in the world of Thedas, individuals are still capable of examining law from a critical standpoint and deciding for themselves what they do or don't agree with. I'm not disputing that Meredith was acting within the law, but if my Hawke thinks the law is wrong, then he has no reason to abide by it except self-preservation which, in the face of wholesale slaughter, isn't really good enough.

Sorry, this I have to disagree with.

A person who disagrees with the law has every right to argue for and lobby for a change and attempt to bring about a change.  But they're still bound to obey that law until it changes.

As example, in the county I live, I'm allowed to make a right turn after stopping at a red light, while the light is still red.  In the City next to my county, I can't.  I think I should be able to, and would love to be able to, but unless they change that law, I have to wait until the light turns green.

If I were speaking about law in a general sense, I would agree. But I'm speaking about the specific political climate of Thedas and the events of DA2. The Chantry's power is near absolute and they don't encourage open debate. It's a "polite" theocratic dictatorship: an iron fist in a velvet glove. I don't personally advocate violent rebellion in general, but in the case of the Chantry, it seems pretty clear that they'll respond to little else.

And in the specific context of the Right of Annulment, which we are debating, Meredith has already called for it. In fact, she called for it days, if not weeks ago, and she's marching on the Gallows right now. Hawke doesn't exactly have time to send Divine Justinia a strongly-worded letter.

[TJPags]

@Plaintiff - fair enough, I agree with that. However, should Hawke side with the mages, it still makes him/her a criminal.

[Rifneno]

Wulfram wrote...

Anders' stunt can't exactly have helped the state of the Veil either.

It can't exactly have hurt it either. It takes a tremendous amount of death and evil to weaken the Veil. The Tevinters were systematically making atrocity a part of daily life for hundreds of years. According to the Engima, "an entire civilization's worth" of people were ritually sacrificed under Kirkwall over the years. If one building being destroyed was enough to damage the veil, Denerim would have pride demons strolling through the marketplace every day.

Dave of Canada wrote...

A mage living in Kirkwall suddenly becomes a blood mage without knowing it?

*haven't read the Enigma yet*

Then stop arguing.  You missed a vital piece of the story.

Jade Elf wrote...

Well, he does use blood magic to "wake up" your kidnapped sibling or companion...

I got a friend that once read how to make a bomb on the Internet of a combination of drunk and bored.  Doesn't mean he's a terrorist.  Blood is just another source of fuel.  Despite all the Chantry's preaching, it is not inherently evil.  And really, I don't blame mages planning to rebel for learning it.  The other source of magic beyond mana (which is very limited) is lyrium - controlled by the Chantry.  And templars' resistances are nearly useless against blood magic as I understand it.  It'd be stupid of them NOT to learn it from each other if they're rebelling.  So the question then becomes is their rebellion just?  Alain basically tells Hawke (if you pick diplomatic) that he joined the rebellion because he's tired of being raped.  ...  Yeah, I'm gonna give him a pass on that one.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Didn't you guys just spend 7 years trying to find a book, which shouldn't have been lost in the first place?

HA!  I know we don't get along well, but I must commend you on a brilliant one-liner.  I was debating whether it'd be worth it to give one of my long-winded point-by-points and you already did much better with one sentence.  Bravo.

TJPags wrote...

Be fair, Lob.

We do see some mages that we can positively identify as Circle Mages.  Grace, without a doubt.  Huon, without a doubt.  Alain, though hardly what I would consider evil, is in fact a blood mage.  We fight some mages who are labelled as "Circle Mage" before the end game sequence.

I know you argue that these are not necesarily representative of the Circle as a whole, and that's fine - we disagree on that, of course, but I get your argument.  But we do in fact see several identifiable Circle mages who use blood magic and/or attack Hawke.

So it's a distortion to say there "the game mechanics don't provide us with any evidence" of what the Circle mages are like.  There is evidence.  How convincing you find it is up for debate.

I agree there's certainly quite a few evil Circle mages, but doesn't the same clearly apply to the templars?  We see quite a few bad templars.  The Alrik card is played out so I'll leave that one.  How about Karras?  I told Grace I wouldn't murder Thrask, a good man, for her to go free.  So she surrendered because she didn't want to be killed either.  Karras shows up and refuses to accept their surrender.  He doesn't even know about Decimus' douchebaggery, he flatly states all apostates need to die no matter the circumstance.  Hawke stands his ground and says he's not letting Karras execute prisoners without trial and of course gets attacked by a small platoon of templars.  Then in Act II, another templar group ambushes Hawke for Karras' "murder."  Hawke tries to tell their leader what happened and that Karras attacked him not the other way around, she flatly states "I don't care."  My favorite templar group though was one of the ones on the quest "A Noble Agenda."  A group called "templar death squad" tries to kill an unarmed woman because she gave her apostate cousin a bowl of soup.  That's it.  One meal.  That one's my favorite because it clearly shows how they "protect" the public.


 

Plaintiff wrote...

The fact that her suspicions turn out to be somewhat correct is irrelevent. At the time of calling for the Right, she had no evidence whatsoever and the blood mages in the Circle only reveal themselves as such in response to Meredith's cray-zay.

Let's not forget that blood mages aren't that rare or even considered such an earth-shattering matter.  Griegor and Irving both knew Jowan was a blood mage and they let him go about his life for a while so they could implicate a very low ranking priestess.  That doesn't scream "worth Annuling a Circle over a few" for to me.

[OldMan91]

TJPags wrote...

@Plaintiff - fair enough, I agree with that. However, should Hawke side with the mages, it still makes him/her a criminal.

I'd like to present to you a good friend of mine called Inspector Javert. You and him are going to be best pals, i'm sure.

[Dave of Canada]

Rifneno wrote...

Then stop arguing.  You missed a vital piece of the story.

Can't be too vital if it's optional and hard to find.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 02 mai 2011 - 01:00 .

[LobselVith8]

88mphSlayer wrote...

i'm not about to make a moral judgment or decision based on evidence that simply doesn't exist, everything we've been exposed to in Kirkwall indicates that the circle cannot control its own mages for years, mages are escaping constantly and Orsino's practice of actively protecting blood mages yet never doing anything to curb their violence is disgusting, i get the impression Orsino is more focused on protecting apostates than guiding mages, he's an idealist not a leader, and would rather sacrifice the circle for the sake of ideals than surrender to the Templars when lives were on the line

Everything we've seen shows that mages are being illegally made tranquil, a child mage is threatened with rape while another mage implies he's being raped by templars, a da'len (child) of the Dalish is tortured, and the Knight-Commander becoming the dictator over the city-state. When it comes down to executing men, women, and children for an act Anders committed, I can't agree. You're welcome to disagree, of course.

88mphSlayer wrote...

Merrill was exiled of her own free will, she only truly becomes exiled after Marethari dies and you promise the responsibility of keeping Merrill from endangering the clan ever again (this is a path for not slaughtering the dalish clan)... Marethari become an abomination to protect Merrill from becoming an abomination, Merrill was always woefully naive and both ignorant and arrogant about her own abilities, if actions speak louder than words then Merrill not having the willpower to turn down demons in the fade is loud enough... she would've become an abomination, a very dangerous one at that that was never interested in reviving history

Merrill is exiled the moment she leaves the clan. And I don't see what's naive or ignorant about Merrill when she addresses that all spirits are dangerous, proficiently uses blood magic for several years, is adept at magic to the point of being able to tell what type of demon is inhabiting the Profane Abomination, and is building a two thousand year old elven device that baffled the Tevinter Magisters. Also, you have zero proof that Merrill would have become an abomination. Please don't inject your speculations as fact.

88mphSlayer wrote...

and yes it is Merrill's fault for pursuing the demon, and it's spelled out that the dalish clan felt endangered and they've run out of options for dealing with her (but are open to compromise if you pursue it)

No, the actions of other adults can't be blamed on Merrill. And the Dalish attempting to murder Hawke and Merrill in cold blood can't be blamed on her.

88mphSlayer wrote...

and invoking the Right of Annulment comes after over a decade of internal strife, the chantry being blown up by an apostate was the final straw

Internal stife that escalated when Meredith became a dictator over Kirkwall.

88mphSlayer wrote...

i still fail to see how Merrill's life is more morally important than that of the entire dalish clan, and similarly how 300 circle mages are more important than all of Kirkwall, when the Qunari lashed out certainly nobody has any qualms with ending that threat, no? the Qunari were not more important than everybody else Tome of Koslun be damned, and same goes for mages pursuing freedom just to use blood magic

The clan isn't within their right to murder people in cold blood because they aren't pleased about the facts they are told, nor are we provided how many men, women, and children are in the Gallows - what we know is that it is the only Circle of Magi in the Free Marches. I don't think killing these people on the order of a dictator who has ordered their deaths because of an apostate is valid, but you're welcome to disagree.

[OldMan91]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Then stop arguing.  You missed a vital piece of the story.

Can't be too vital if it's optional and hard to find.

You may read the codex entry here, he with the Robotnik cartoon avatar: http://dragonage.wik...gma_of_Kirkwall

[Plaintiff]

TJPags wrote...

@Plaintiff - fair enough, I agree with that. However, should Hawke side with the mages, it still makes him/her a criminal.

My Hawke is okay with that.

I think you misread me slightly. I didn't mean to suggest initially that people have the inherent right to flout any law they disagree with. Merely that legality of an action doesn't make it automatically moral, and it's the morality of the Right of Annulment that we're debating.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 02 mai 2011 - 01:12 .

[Rifneno]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Then stop arguing.  You missed a vital piece of the story.

Can't be too vital if it's optional and hard to find.

You'd think so, wouldn't you?

[Dave of Canada]

OldMan91 wrote...

You may read the codex entry here, he with the Robotnik cartoon avatar: http://dragonage.wik...gma_of_Kirkwall

*speedread*

Interesting, odd that such exposition is hard to find though. It does lessen the "demons coming out of everywhere" a tad bit, though I still wouldn't dismiss the point entirely.

[Rifneno]

Dave of Canada wrote...

OldMan91 wrote...

You may read the codex entry here, he with the Robotnik cartoon avatar: http://dragonage.wik...gma_of_Kirkwall

*speedread*

Interesting, odd that such exposition is hard to find though. It does lessen the "demons coming out of everywhere" a tad bit, though I still wouldn't dismiss the point entirely.

The biggest problem with it is that it leaves the plothole that how, in all the years the Circle has been in Kirkwall (I believe it's been there hundreds of years?) has no mage, templar, or clergy notied that they stationed the Circle in the house from Poltergeist?  That'd be a pretty hard thing not to notice.

[TJPags]

Rifneno wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Be fair, Lob.

We do see some mages that we can positively identify as Circle Mages.  Grace, without a doubt.  Huon, without a doubt.  Alain, though hardly what I would consider evil, is in fact a blood mage.  We fight some mages who are labelled as "Circle Mage" before the end game sequence.

I know you argue that these are not necesarily representative of the Circle as a whole, and that's fine - we disagree on that, of course, but I get your argument.  But we do in fact see several identifiable Circle mages who use blood magic and/or attack Hawke.

So it's a distortion to say there "the game mechanics don't provide us with any evidence" of what the Circle mages are like.  There is evidence.  How convincing you find it is up for debate.

I agree there's certainly quite a few evil Circle mages, but doesn't the same clearly apply to the templars?  We see quite a few bad templars.  The Alrik card is played out so I'll leave that one.  How about Karras?  I told Grace I wouldn't murder Thrask, a good man, for her to go free.  So she surrendered because she didn't want to be killed either.  Karras shows up and refuses to accept their surrender.  He doesn't even know about Decimus' douchebaggery, he flatly states all apostates need to die no matter the circumstance.  Hawke stands his ground and says he's not letting Karras execute prisoners without trial and of course gets attacked by a small platoon of templars.  Then in Act II, another templar group ambushes Hawke for Karras' "murder."  Hawke tries to tell their leader what happened and that Karras attacked him not the other way around, she flatly states "I don't care."  My favorite templar group though was one of the ones on the quest "A Noble Agenda."  A group called "templar death squad" tries to kill an unarmed woman because she gave her apostate cousin a bowl of soup.  That's it.  One meal.  That one's my favorite because it clearly shows how they "protect" the public.

There are bad Templars.  I've never argued otherwise.  Now, I can point out that the way you lay out the Karras issue is one of several outcomes, which precludes the next Karras revenge situation you indicate.  But we've been through this.

My sole point posting that - as Lob and I have also argued this issue many times - was to indicate that there is solid, concrete evidence of Circle Mages using blood magic and otherwise breaking the law.  To say otherwise is misleading.

[Rifneno]

TJPags wrote...
There are bad Templars.  I've never argued otherwise.  Now, I can point out that the way you lay out the Karras issue is one of several outcomes, which precludes the next Karras revenge situation you indicate.  But we've been through this.

My sole point posting that - as Lob and I have also argued this issue many times - was to indicate that there is solid, concrete evidence of Circle Mages using blood magic and otherwise breaking the law.  To say otherwise is misleading.

And my sole point is, if you're going to condemn the whole for the few that Hawke encounters, the templars need to be annuled as well.

[TJPags]

Rifneno wrote...

TJPags wrote...
There are bad Templars.  I've never argued otherwise.  Now, I can point out that the way you lay out the Karras issue is one of several outcomes, which precludes the next Karras revenge situation you indicate.  But we've been through this.

My sole point posting that - as Lob and I have also argued this issue many times - was to indicate that there is solid, concrete evidence of Circle Mages using blood magic and otherwise breaking the law.  To say otherwise is misleading.

And my sole point is, if you're going to condemn the whole for the few that Hawke encounters, the templars need to be annuled as well.

I'd be fine with wiping out every templar like Alrik, and start with Meredith.

Show me where the game lets me do that, and I'll doi it every time. 

[Beerfish]

Rifneno wrote...

TJPags wrote...
There are bad Templars.  I've never argued otherwise.  Now, I can point out that the way you lay out the Karras issue is one of several outcomes, which precludes the next Karras revenge situation you indicate.  But we've been through this.

My sole point posting that - as Lob and I have also argued this issue many times - was to indicate that there is solid, concrete evidence of Circle Mages using blood magic and otherwise breaking the law.  To say otherwise is misleading.

And my sole point is, if you're going to condemn the whole for the few that Hawke encounters, the templars need to be annuled as well.

Again.....templars vs the mages with the HUGE majority of the people affected having nothing to do with the situation.  The templars though nasty in this game have shown no real bent for killing innocents on purpose or otherwise.  Mages on the other hand can due massive damage with just one of them, even totally unintentional.  One lone mage is far more dangerous than one lone templar.  In the end it is this faceless majority that will decdie the fate of the mages and the templars.

[DKJaigen]

Beerfish wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

TJPags wrote...
There are bad Templars.  I've never argued otherwise.  Now, I can point out that the way you lay out the Karras issue is one of several outcomes, which precludes the next Karras revenge situation you indicate.  But we've been through this.

My sole point posting that - as Lob and I have also argued this issue many times - was to indicate that there is solid, concrete evidence of Circle Mages using blood magic and otherwise breaking the law.  To say otherwise is misleading.

And my sole point is, if you're going to condemn the whole for the few that Hawke encounters, the templars need to be annuled as well.

Again.....templars vs the mages with the HUGE majority of the people affected having nothing to do with the situation.  The templars though nasty in this game have shown no real bent for killing innocents on purpose or otherwise.  Mages on the other hand can due massive damage with just one of them, even totally unintentional.  One lone mage is far more dangerous than one lone templar.  In the end it is this faceless majority that will decdie the fate of the mages and the templars.

Perhaps you have not realised that while mage is indeed more dangerous is that templars can get away with most of their crimes with a thin veneer of piety and say its the makers will. In my opnion thats not justice. Im still against killing anyone for the sake of one madwoman or the actions of one person.

[IanPolaris]

Dave of Canada wrote...

OldMan91 wrote...

You may read the codex entry here, he with the Robotnik cartoon avatar: http://dragonage.wik...gma_of_Kirkwall

*speedread*

Interesting, odd that such exposition is hard to find though. It does lessen the "demons coming out of everywhere" a tad bit, though I still wouldn't dismiss the point entirely.

It does doesn't it tthough.  Makes you wonder why the writers tried so hard to hide such a vital piece of information....could it be because they want you (the player) to leap to exactly the conclusion you just did?!  That mages are evil and prone to possession for any old reason and NOT because Kirkwall is build on top of a hellmouth?

When I accuse the Devs of dishonest writing, this is what I am talking about.

-Polaris

[nos_astra]

Dave of Canada wrote...
*speedread*

Interesting, odd that such exposition is hard to find though. It does lessen the "demons coming out of everywhere" a tad bit, though I still wouldn't dismiss the point entirely.

The Circle should have been torn down and rebuild somewhere else a long time ago. I mean, remember, Aeonar? The prison where the Veil is so thin it's only a matter of time for mage to become possessed?

[Rifneno]

Beerfish wrote...

Again.....templars vs the mages with the HUGE majority of the people affected having nothing to do with the situation.  The templars though nasty in this game have shown no real bent for killing innocents on purpose or otherwise.  Mages on the other hand can due massive damage with just one of them, even totally unintentional.  One lone mage is far more dangerous than one lone templar.  In the end it is this faceless majority that will decdie the fate of the mages and the templars.

Bull****.  You don't lose the tag "innocent" simply for being born with a genetic abnormality or for giving a bowl of soup to a hungry cousin who happens to have said abnormality.  Ella is so young that Bethany refers to her as a "kid" and a templar wanted to worse-than-kill her for trying to say goodbye to her mother!  Not innocent?  Clearly you don't have the foggiest idea what that word means!

klarabella wrote...

The Circle should have been torn down and rebuild somewhere else a long time ago. I mean, remember, Aeonar? The prison where the Veil is so thin it's only a matter of time for mage to become possessed?

I still maintain that Aeonar was nothing but a reference to Spellhold.  That we never hear a word of it again is just too odd.  Meredith would be sending people there left right and center.

Regardless, the situation would've been better away from Kirkwall but it'd still be very bad.  The Chantry refuses mages the most basic human rights that peasants in the most oppressed nations have.  The right to love, to wed, to have children and a family.  Those things are worth any battle for, and many mages will recognize that and fight for freedom no matter what.  When you put borderline psychopaths in charge of the mages, you're only poking a bear with a sharp stick.  Frankly I'm shocked it took as long as it did for it all to blow up in the Chantry's face.  

[EmperorSahlertz]

Rifneno wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Again.....templars vs the mages with the HUGE majority of the people affected having nothing to do with the situation.  The templars though nasty in this game have shown no real bent for killing innocents on purpose or otherwise.  Mages on the other hand can due massive damage with just one of them, even totally unintentional.  One lone mage is far more dangerous than one lone templar.  In the end it is this faceless majority that will decdie the fate of the mages and the templars.

Bull****.  You don't lose the tag "innocent" simply for being born with a genetic abnormality or for giving a bowl of soup to a hungry cousin who happens to have said abnormality.  Ella is so young that Bethany refers to her as a "kid" and a templar wanted to worse-than-kill her for trying to say goodbye to her mother!  Not innocent?  Clearly you don't have the foggiest idea what that word means!

klarabella wrote...

The Circle should have been torn down and rebuild somewhere else a long time ago. I mean, remember, Aeonar? The prison where the Veil is so thin it's only a matter of time for mage to become possessed?

I still maintain that Aeonar was nothing but a reference to Spellhold.  That we never hear a word of it again is just too odd.  Meredith would be sending people there left right and center.

Regardless, the situation would've been better away from Kirkwall but it'd still be very bad.  The Chantry refuses mages the most basic human rights that peasants in the most oppressed nations have.  The right to love, to wed, to have children and a family.  Those things are worth any battle for, and many mages will recognize that and fight for freedom no matter what.  When you put borderline psychopaths in charge of the mages, you're only poking a bear with a sharp stick.  Frankly I'm shocked it took as long as it did for it all to blow up in the Chantry's face.  

Mages are allowed to wed and love.... They aren't allowed to keep any child concieved, which is arguably for the best.

[DKJaigen]

Why dont you explain that emperor

[Beerfish]

DKJaigen wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

TJPags wrote...
There are bad Templars.  I've never argued otherwise.  Now, I can point out that the way you lay out the Karras issue is one of several outcomes, which precludes the next Karras revenge situation you indicate.  But we've been through this.

My sole point posting that - as Lob and I have also argued this issue many times - was to indicate that there is solid, concrete evidence of Circle Mages using blood magic and otherwise breaking the law.  To say otherwise is misleading.

And my sole point is, if you're going to condemn the whole for the few that Hawke encounters, the templars need to be annuled as well.

Again.....templars vs the mages with the HUGE majority of the people affected having nothing to do with the situation.  The templars though nasty in this game have shown no real bent for killing innocents on purpose or otherwise.  Mages on the other hand can due massive damage with just one of them, even totally unintentional.  One lone mage is far more dangerous than one lone templar.  In the end it is this faceless majority that will decdie the fate of the mages and the templars.

Perhaps you have not realised that while mage is indeed more dangerous is that templars can get away with most of their crimes with a thin veneer of piety and say its the makers will. In my opnion thats not justice. Im still against killing anyone for the sake of one madwoman or the actions of one person.

Oh of course they can and there are parts in the games that they do just that.   That doesn't change my previous statement.  One lone mage can do far more damage than one templar and further to that the mage doesn't even have to be a bad guy to do so.

[Beerfish]

Rifneno wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Again.....templars vs the mages with the HUGE majority of the people affected having nothing to do with the situation.  The templars though nasty in this game have shown no real bent for killing innocents on purpose or otherwise.  Mages on the other hand can due massive damage with just one of them, even totally unintentional.  One lone mage is far more dangerous than one lone templar.  In the end it is this faceless majority that will decdie the fate of the mages and the templars.

Bull****.  You don't lose the tag "innocent" simply for being born with a genetic abnormality or for giving a bowl of soup to a hungry cousin who happens to have said abnormality.  Ella is so young that Bethany refers to her as a "kid" and a templar wanted to worse-than-kill her for trying to say goodbye to her mother!  Not innocent?  Clearly you don't have the foggiest idea what that word means!


 

Eh?  You may have misinterpretted my comment.  Connor, Redcliffe, a young mage boy, a nice kid not a mean bone in his body, tutored by a mage, out side of the circle and yet he causes GREAT harm to innocents in redcliffe.  One loan kid caused the deaths of many many people and almost totally destoryed Redcliffe. 

I'll guarantee you that if beings in the here and now had a genetic abnormaility in whcih they had the possibiltiy tio turn into someone that can kill dozens or hundreds and if that actually had happened in the past and that the abnormaility was identified as the reason those unfortunate people would meet with the same level of control and scrutiny, fear and dread as mages in this game.

As spock would say the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.

[KenKenpachi]

I look at as a worse case option somewhat. Its like if you have a max security prison who's lock down protocol's fail. Either you let (though not prisoners a mage can be pretty damn dangerous what with shooting fireballs calling on demons etc) I seen the situtation as open rebelion, and though the Warden is insane I made it clear I wasn't under her command, and used the "Spare those who arn't a threat option" on the templars. LOVED the look on her face when it was clear the Templars would listen to me.

I didn't see it as a dark act. I don't like the Templar concept, fully, in fact I think they might need to do a less harsh "Handler" concept. Basically pair a couple templars with a mage, go about doing good deads for the Chanters. If they start to fall *swipe*. Or hell anything that would allow them to have a bit of a normal life, well something of one, its a good idea to have an anti-mage force however. But given the situation, and the stupidity of not being able to work with the rebel factions from both orders or hell even the Qunari, its clear big O was backing some bad crap, and only the extreamist would have been left come morning. So I tried to put down the riot with as little lose as possible.

Also in 100% agreement with the above from Beerfish. But I'm more for having like a (NJO or Pre Kotor) Jedi order, while having a force of troopers to kill them should worse come to worse. There powers are useful. Problem is keeping them in line. Need a balance of force and freedom. Too much of the Former, gets Kirkwall, too much of the later the Triventer.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 02 mai 2011 - 02:35 .