This is really a different topic, but I actually liked SoU the best. Most of those criticisms I'd say are actually good points.
The OC bumped you right up to L3 with little ado. I can see why it did that, but SoU let you experience what it's like to be a vulnerable, first-level character. Maybe it's slightly tough on beginners, though.
Being "kept broke" actually makes a lot more sense to me. If you can just wander into a dungeon and grab a pile of cash, why isn't everyone stinking rich? Or rather, why hasn't inflation kicked in so that everything costs 1000s of gp? In most games, identifying stuff doesn't matter, spending cash doesn't matter, you can just buy pretty much what you want and there's no benefit to having a high lore. By the time you get Deekin, you can have everything auto-identified, anyway.
Yes, there was some tedious back-and-forth, but no more than pretty much every game I've played.
He's never played a comp. game - easiest starter class?
Débuté par
KaidiK
, mai 01 2011 07:45
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#27
Posté 03 mai 2011 - 02:55
Elhanan
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Missed the being broke part. I tend to use gold cheats at least on replays, as I dislike the shopping treks made for any game. So flail away, as I am a bad, bad boy!
#28
Guest_Lowlander_*
Posté 03 mai 2011 - 03:13
Guest_Lowlander_*
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The Fred wrote...
The OC bumped you right up to L3 with little
ado. I can see why it did that, but SoU let you experience what it's
like to be a vulnerable, first-level character. Maybe it's slightly
tough on beginners, though.
Being "kept broke" actually makes a lot more sense to me.
The training intro of the OC is a much better choice for someone who doesn't even know what a hit point is, than dumping in as first level character to face easy death. Also the OC doesn't bump you right to level 3. You move in stages 1,2,3 after a bit fighting/training at each level.
And while I can agree that there is certain merit to the poverty beginning game experience, it is more of a Grind in SoU than any other Mod that I have played. Back and forth should happen because of quests, not because you can't carry any more heavy junk that you need to sell for the fifth time.
This is a smallish two chapter module, for the entire chapter 1 deprivation experience you don't have Deekin. You carry junk to sell. You can't get a decent carry bag and you can't ID stuff for cheap. Chapter 1 Being a mule.
Nothing is quite as much fun as lugging back a load of junk, selling it pay 100GP to ID some item that turns out to be worth 60 GP after you ID it. Rinse and repeat. It is an exercise in frustration.
SoU would be what I recommend for a first timer if I wanted them to give up and to never play NWN again.
Modifié par Lowlander, 03 mai 2011 - 03:37 .
#29
Guest_Lowlander_*
Posté 03 mai 2011 - 03:35
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Elhanan wrote...
Missed the being broke part. I tend to use gold cheats at least on replays, as I dislike the shopping treks made for any game. So flail away, as I am a bad, bad boy!
Then you aren't recommending SoU, you are recommending your "customized" version where you aren't broke. Which changes the premise completely. This is why it is frustration to have these discussions with those who readily use cheats.
Ch 1 is all about deprivation and scrounging to afford the basics, making tough choices where to spend you meager resources. I found it quite frustrating, but it was designed to be frustrating that is the point. I am not going load up on gold to skip the premise.
It is a very tough start the normal way, in your leather amor, 1st level with a short sword facing various monsters that can easily kill you.
A whole diffirent kettle of fish if you have cash and can go right away to load up with plate/shield/longsword etc...
If you use cheats, we aren't talking about the same mod.
If you have some spare time at some point, try playing SoU clean and see if you think you would still recommend it as a begginer mod?
Modifié par Lowlander, 03 mai 2011 - 03:36 .
#30
Posté 03 mai 2011 - 04:31
Elhanan
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I found Chp 1 to be well done myself, even before cheating. But I often choose Appraise as a skill, at least for my Rogues. And finding that rather tough-skinned merchant hiding in his keep was one of the few times that I chose to raise Appraise past 5 ranks, so the challenge here was pleasing, too.
#31
Posté 03 mai 2011 - 11:13
The Fred
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I far prefered SoU's approach to the OC's, but I will admit that it might not be so kind to beginners. The OC's "bump-you-up-rapidly-to-L3-for-beating-1-HP-goblins" tactic never impressed me, but it does give you chance to get to grips with the game without being ripped apart. Maybe after playing the Prelude, you might want to try out the OC, but it works best even just as a tutorial, anyway.
#32
Posté 04 mai 2011 - 01:38
HipMaestro
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If hubby is used to cleaning up after you and is comfortable in his manhood, he should consider playing a rogue and cleaning up all the traps and unlocking doors so you can cruise through the game with maximum confidence. A bit more fun/interesting than a fighter, IMO.
It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE !!!
It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE !!!
Modifié par HipMaestro, 04 mai 2011 - 01:46 .
#33
Posté 04 mai 2011 - 03:56
UrkOfGreyhawk
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The Fred wrote...
This is really a different topic, but I actually liked SoU the best. Most of those criticisms I'd say are actually good points.
The OC bumped you right up to L3 with little ado. I can see why it did that, but SoU let you experience what it's like to be a vulnerable, first-level character. Maybe it's slightly tough on beginners, though.
Being "kept broke" actually makes a lot more sense to me. If you can just wander into a dungeon and grab a pile of cash, why isn't everyone stinking rich? Or rather, why hasn't inflation kicked in so that everything costs 1000s of gp? In most games, identifying stuff doesn't matter, spending cash doesn't matter, you can just buy pretty much what you want and there's no benefit to having a high lore. By the time you get Deekin, you can have everything auto-identified, anyway.
Yes, there was some tedious back-and-forth, but no more than pretty much every game I've played.
I agree. Being 1st level is supposed to be a struggle. I can't stand games that just dump gold and magic gear all over you right from the beginning, and the OC basically hands you your first three levels on a silver platter. Levels are supposed to be achievments. They lose their meaning when they're that easy to get.
But beyond all that, SoU was a better story, IMO. It had a sense of progression. In the OC you basically step out of school and get sent out on a mission to save the city. A properly paced plot progresses more slowly.
And yeah... Deekin. Deekin's a friggin' Hoot.
I'll second HipMaestro's suggestions. Rogues can be a lot of fun and they're still pretty easy to play.
Modifié par UrkOfGreyhawk, 04 mai 2011 - 03:58 .
#34
Posté 04 mai 2011 - 07:00
jmlzemaggo
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It's rather important to start NWN with the OC, since that's the only one time, when you yet don't know anything about NWN, you might actually be willing and given the only one chance to play it.
As it's not a free will yet.
As free will's meaning knowledge.
(I had a lot of fun playing the OC. The first time...)
For once, I must shamefuly admit I love one HipMaestro's suggestion, and if I were you, I would definitely use my "hubby", what a beautiful word by the way, a new one for my private collection, as your personal cleaning rogue.
I'm just so glad my wife doesn't read these forums...
As it's not a free will yet.
As free will's meaning knowledge.
(I had a lot of fun playing the OC. The first time...)
For once, I must shamefuly admit I love one HipMaestro's suggestion, and if I were you, I would definitely use my "hubby", what a beautiful word by the way, a new one for my private collection, as your personal cleaning rogue.
I'm just so glad my wife doesn't read these forums...
Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 04 mai 2011 - 07:01 .
#35
Posté 04 mai 2011 - 09:32
olivier leroux
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When you go Multiplayer, a rogue might be a good option. I found it's often one of the hardest classes to play in Single Player mode though, especially if you're not quite proficient in how to play them yet because they don't do well in one-on-one fights, at least not during their earlier levels. Speaking from my personal experience - others may disagree.
As for the right campaign, like I said, I think it all depends on his preferences, what kind of stories he's interested in, how patient he is etc. The first time I played the OC I lost interest right after leaving the academy. And if I hadn't already known about all the nice community modules a friend told me about, I might just have moved on to the next CRPG. Others still praise the OC to this day. It's all pretty subjective, just like the observations on SoU. Getting curious, I started playing SoU yesterday for the first time and found it pretty quick and easy to advance to level 3 (on Normal difficulty) - but then again I'm already familiar with the game and I played a sorcerer with familiar and summon, so maybe playing a fighter would actually be more difficult. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is one man's meat is another man's poison and it isn't all just black and white; it depends on a lot of different factors.
(The OC and SoU share obvious similarities in how they get the story started though. I'll just say that having to help your mentor retrieve some obscure magical artifacts hidden all over the city/region/world isn't exactly the most original and exciting plot device I'ver ever seen ... But maybe that's just me.
)
As for the right campaign, like I said, I think it all depends on his preferences, what kind of stories he's interested in, how patient he is etc. The first time I played the OC I lost interest right after leaving the academy. And if I hadn't already known about all the nice community modules a friend told me about, I might just have moved on to the next CRPG. Others still praise the OC to this day. It's all pretty subjective, just like the observations on SoU. Getting curious, I started playing SoU yesterday for the first time and found it pretty quick and easy to advance to level 3 (on Normal difficulty) - but then again I'm already familiar with the game and I played a sorcerer with familiar and summon, so maybe playing a fighter would actually be more difficult. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is one man's meat is another man's poison and it isn't all just black and white; it depends on a lot of different factors.
(The OC and SoU share obvious similarities in how they get the story started though. I'll just say that having to help your mentor retrieve some obscure magical artifacts hidden all over the city/region/world isn't exactly the most original and exciting plot device I'ver ever seen ... But maybe that's just me.
)
Modifié par olivier leroux, 04 mai 2011 - 09:43 .
#36
Guest_Lowlander_*
Posté 04 mai 2011 - 01:31
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olivier leroux wrote...
When you go Multiplayer, a rogue might be a good option. I found it's often one of the hardest classes to play in Single Player mode though, especially if you're not quite proficient in how to play them yet because they don't do well in one-on-one fights, at least not during their earlier levels. Speaking from my personal experience - others may disagree.
I totally agree. I nearly always play Fighter/Rogues of some kind and 1st level is always Rogue for the skill points. On modules where you start at level 1, getting killed is something I pretty much expect. You can't really stealth well, you can't wear decent armor, you have wimpy weapons and you don't have the most hitpoint, yet you pretty much use combat to do away with your enemies... It's a recipe for getting killed.
(The OC and SoU share obvious similarities in how they get the story started though. I'll just say that having to help your mentor retrieve some obscure magical artifacts hidden all over the city/region/world isn't exactly the most original and exciting plot device I'ver ever seen ... But maybe that's just me.
Yeah, I don't really get anyone saying the story is better in SoU, Chapter 1 is practically running from the same script as Chapter 1 in NWN. For a newbie, I would definitely suggest OC over SoU for the tutorial alone, other than that, I still think the OC is more interesting, less boring, less frustrating.
It is either the OC or one of the Premiums (I suggested Kingmaker as it starts at level 1) or some other 3rd party mod.
Modifié par Lowlander, 04 mai 2011 - 01:31 .
#37
Posté 04 mai 2011 - 03:14
Omega27
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jmlzemaggo wrote...
It's rather important to start NWN with the OC, since that's the only one time, when you yet don't know anything about NWN, you might actually be willing and given the only one chance to play it.
As it's not a free will yet.
As free will's meaning knowledge.
(I had a lot of fun playing the OC. The first time...)
For once, I must shamefuly admit I love one HipMaestro's suggestion, and if I were you, I would definitely use my "hubby", what a beautiful word by the way, a new one for my private collection, as your personal cleaning rogue.
I'm just so glad my wife doesn't read these forums...
I must also agree, if hes going to actually play Nwn for the story. Regardless of how long and a pain it can be he should start off with the OC.
#38
Posté 04 mai 2011 - 07:36
CBrachyrhynchos
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I'll agree that the OC is more forgiving (perhaps to a fault) of low-level characters.
SoU is a bit more challenging, but it hangs together a bit better than the OC which loads you up with unconnected quests that just happen to drop quest-relevant items.
SoU is a bit more challenging, but it hangs together a bit better than the OC which loads you up with unconnected quests that just happen to drop quest-relevant items.
#39
Posté 05 mai 2011 - 08:34
cds13
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Yes, barbarians have that strange attitude, they kill themselves :-) when you run out of many BPs while you are on rage suddendly, when it finishes, you just find yourself dead but their description says it all: they are almost "witless fighters" that's why I like them for their ease of use :-)
I would go for the OC, really SoU seems more difficult for a newbie
I would go for the OC, really SoU seems more difficult for a newbie
#40
Posté 05 mai 2011 - 02:44
The Fred
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Not having to think about Rogue stuff is probably a lot easier for a first-time player. As a Rogue, you have to know about skills, traps, locks, etc, you are a lot easier to kill, and have a lot more difficulty killing other things. As a Fighter-type, you don't even need to give a damn about skills (some Discipline is probably good, but beyond that it makes little difference) and you can probably just run through most traps, anyway, and rest for a bit afterwards. Or just take Tomi as a henchman.
#41
Posté 09 mai 2011 - 04:57
Elhanan
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Tomi in the OC will encourage your hubby to play a Rogue, as he fails to do most anything when asked the first time!
#42
Posté 10 mai 2011 - 11:53
fetyr2004
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Just a thought but way bout cleric rogue with travel and trickery domains?
#43
Posté 10 mai 2011 - 01:18
The Fred
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Could play nicely, but I wouldn't recommend it as a starter choice. You have to get to grips with spellcasting AND rogue abilities, and if you mess up you'll end up with a lame cleric who can sometimes open doors. Losing so many spellcasting levels will probably just hurt too much.
#44
Posté 10 mai 2011 - 02:06
CBrachyrhynchos
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Or hey, play a monk and don't have to worry about gear either.
#45
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 12:44
Gecon
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Let him just play what he likes.
I had no idea either what I was doing when I started my first RPG, Baldurs Gate. I think my first character was a Bard.
About easiest class, that would be IMHO Cleric. Good defense, good healing, uber spells like Harm, and with the right build quite a good offense, too.
I had no idea either what I was doing when I started my first RPG, Baldurs Gate. I think my first character was a Bard.
About easiest class, that would be IMHO Cleric. Good defense, good healing, uber spells like Harm, and with the right build quite a good offense, too.
#46
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 12:47
Gecon
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Uh, no offense, butShaDoOoW wrote...
I wouldnt start with NWN at all. I would start with games like Baldurs Gate II or more straight Icewind Dale II. Reason for this is graphic, if you start with NWN you wont like those older games because of GUI/graphic, but if you start with older games then NWN will be suddenly more amazing. That lack of multiplayer in those games is still issue though.
1. Especially IWD2 is extremely hard in comparison to NWN.
2. BG and IWD look BETTER than NWN.
