100 réponses à ce sujet

[lolwut666]

The turians may have a larger fleet, but the human fleet is damn good.

Quantity doesn't equal quality. Just ask the batarians.

[jamesp81]

I saved them due to tactical considerations.

I had a real concern about sending the human fleet to attack Sovereign directly without first dealing with the Geth fleet. I felt there was a real possibility of having the human fleet facing a Reaper in front of it while simultaneously getting attacked from behind by the geth.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I think you are drastically overestimating how easily the turians could win a war with humanity. A victory isn't good enough if they'll be busy rebuilding for generations. The Alliance grown a lot in the last two decades and the other races lost too much to the geth.

Last time I checked, the turians still have 39 dreadnoughts just aching to fight. The only council race that had the option to lose a dreadnought in the battle was the asari.

Humanity has 8 dreadnoughts.

I think you're the one doing the overestimating here.

[jamesp81]

Sajuro wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

They are one and the same.

-looks to world leadership, looks back to the post, looks back to world leadership-......
Seriously though, there is more to leadership, effective leadership, than ordering people around and I think Humans still have too Humancentric view of the galaxy (applying our own values to alien cultures) to be effective leaders without the other races on the council balancing us out. They are not ideal, but their concern for their own species are balanced out and since the Turians have client races, they are likely to look out for those races as well. My ideal solution after the Reaper War would be to give each race with an embassy representation on the council proportionate to their responsibilities in the galactic workings.

Right, because the Council doesn't apply it's standards to humanity.

The very worst human leadership could result in is more of the same old same old.

[Sebby]

The council wasn't fleshed out enough in ME1. They just came off as being archetypical "angry police chiefs" upset over the actions of the "loose cannon cop". It's almost as if the game wants the player to kill them off at the end. I found Matriach Aethyta to be a more interesting and likable character than those three clowns despite her being a very insignificant character.

Speaking of which from a metagaming standpoint there seems no point in sacrificing the council other than to kill them off. The humans still end up saving the Council and destroying Sovereign with minimal casualties regardless.

[jamesp81]

lolwut666 wrote...

The turians may have a larger fleet, but the human fleet is damn good.

Quantity doesn't equal quality. Just ask the batarians.

What remains to be seen is how well carriers stack up to dreadnoughts.  The Turians have about 5 dreadnoughts for every one the Alliance has.  But the Alliance rolls with a lot of carriers to make up for that.

It's kind of an open question.  However, if carriers in space warfare behave like carriers in naval warfare, then it'd be no contest: carriers > dreadnoughts.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Dreadnoughts aren't everything and humanity has carriers and stealth frigates to supliment its dreadnoughts.

The turians can win, but in the process they'll be too devestated to make the most of a victory. With such prospects no sane turian wants a war with the SA.

And the evidence of this is where, exactly?

Oh, wait. You pulled that one out of your ass. My bad.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...
It's in the codex and novels.

Where in the codex, exactly?

[Sebby]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Where in the codex, exactly?

One of the various diplomatic entries, I believe. I don't know where off the top of my head, I'm not a VI.

Whether you believe me or not doens't matter. Go on believing the turians can wipe the floor with humanity but haven't due to bad writing. I guess Udina was lying too, "Their losses have made the Alliance stronger".

Your avatar begs to differ.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

One of the various diplomatic entries, I believe. I don't know where off the top of my head, I'm not a VI.

Whether you believe me or not doens't matter. Go on believing the turians can wipe the floor with humanity but haven't due to bad writing. I guess Udina was lying too, "Their losses have made the Alliance stronger".

Because, politicians are the paragons of truth, are they not?

[GodWood]

Focused on Sovereign.
Made more sense in character.

[008Zulu]

I saved the council every time, just so i can rub it in the Turian's smarmy face. I hope we get to say "Lets see you disprove the Reapers now." when they show up.

[Evercrow]

I saved the Council for two reasons:
a chance to smack-talk to them in ME3. Although I hope the writers will put at least some sense in them, not just some dispenser for antagonize and deny every Shepard's action and word.

Mantain stability. Overwhelming Alliance officials with galactic politics and responsibilities is not my idea of good preparation for war. Let the Council races boil in the pot, as always, and demand the return of favor when we need them. If no one believes in the Reapers, status quo is preferrable over worsening relations between races.
*sigh* Renegades will have increased fleets, i suppose. Just to balance things out. And i fear this could prove much more useful in saving Earth in ME3, than Council's goodwill. Basically the same forced choice: humanity or the rest of the galaxy.

[DarthSliver]

Hey I swear there better be an option to kill the Turian Council member if he has the balls to say "Ah Yes the 'Reapers' we have dismissed that claim" After i save his sorry butt from the Reapers themselves.

Oh and I saved them, it seemed like the better choice. But I will always save them to regret it when i encounter them in ME2 lol.

Modifié par DarthSliver, 02 mai 2011 - 08:12 .

[TobyHasEyes]

My character very strongly supported the Council, but when it came to the battle in-game you can;t help but view the absolute consequences; losing the Council is a loss, but if Sovereign wins the Council is lost anyway along with everyone else. Its a focus on priorities that I'd hope the late Council would respect

On a side note, kinda bugs me that Anderson made out the rest of the galaxy wanted a human-led Council, when it turns out in me2 that they REALLY didn't. Sucks, but having some unintended consequences livens up the game

[Last Vizard]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I usually save them for the following reasons:

1. Destiny Ascension has a crew of 10,000, which is probably more total lives than the human fleet had that led the counter-attack (not to mention the turian frigates also defending the Citadel), so ultimately more lives would be saved and you'd have more total firepower against Sovereign.

2. No ME2 game is complete without this.

I choose "let them die" everytime, even for paragon... why? because every single death during the war with the Reapers is on them.  The council was taking the Destiny Ascension and trying to retreat from the attack on the Citadel, they weren't going to help attack the Reaper or "Geth Dreadnaught" as they call it....
       ----General Hammond shows what a true leader would do in that situation.

[Last Vizard]

Evercrow wrote...

I saved the Council for two reasons:
a chance to smack-talk to them in ME3. Although I hope the writers will put at least some sense in them, not just some dispenser for antagonize and deny every Shepard's action and word.

Mantain stability. Overwhelming Alliance officials with galactic politics and responsibilities is not my idea of good preparation for war. Let the Council races boil in the pot, as always, and demand the return of favor when we need them. If no one believes in the Reapers, status quo is preferrable over worsening relations between races.
*sigh* Renegades will have increased fleets, i suppose. Just to balance things out. And i fear this could prove much more useful in saving Earth in ME3, than Council's goodwill. Basically the same forced choice: humanity or the rest of the galaxy.

Nothing like distrust to start speeding up production of ships and advanced weapons.

[jamesp81]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...
It's in the codex and novels.

Where in the codex, exactly?

Here

"They make up for low numbers with sophisticated technical support (VIs, drones, artillery, electronic warfare) and emphasis on mobility and individual initiative. Their military doctrine is not based on absorbing and dishing out heavy shocks like the turians and krogan. Rather, they bypass enemy strong points and launch deep into their rear, cutting supply lines and logistics, destroying headquarters and support units, leaving enemies to 'wither on the vine'."

"The Alliance maintains an impressive navy consisting of over 200 vessels ranging from small hundred meter frigates to imposing kilometer long dreadnoughts and carriers. It is one of the greater forces in Citadel space and a serious rival to that of the turians, however, the Alliance is only entitled to a small number of dreadnoughts compared to the turians, a 1 to 5 ratio as of 2183, due to the Treaty of Farixen limiting their construction among the citadel races. The Alliance navy has made up for this with the innovative design and deployment of carriers, which are as large as dreadnoughts but are not restrained by the Treaty of Farixen."

Those of you who harbor self-loathing of humanity won't like this, but the short version is that the Alliance fleet is a "serious rival to that of the turians".  The Turians could probably still win, but not without hideous losses to the point it wouldn't be worth it.

[Last Vizard]

jamesp81 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...
It's in the codex and novels.

Where in the codex, exactly?

Here

"They make up for low numbers with sophisticated technical support (VIs, drones, artillery, electronic warfare) and emphasis on mobility and individual initiative. Their military doctrine is not based on absorbing and dishing out heavy shocks like the turians and krogan. Rather, they bypass enemy strong points and launch deep into their rear, cutting supply lines and logistics, destroying headquarters and support units, leaving enemies to 'wither on the vine'."

"The Alliance maintains an impressive navy consisting of over 200 vessels ranging from small hundred meter frigates to imposing kilometer long dreadnoughts and carriers. It is one of the greater forces in Citadel space and a serious rival to that of the turians, however, the Alliance is only entitled to a small number of dreadnoughts compared to the turians, a 1 to 5 ratio as of 2183, due to the Treaty of Farixen limiting their construction among the citadel races. The Alliance navy has made up for this with the innovative design and deployment of carriers, which are as large as dreadnoughts but are not restrained by the Treaty of Farixen."

Those of you who harbor self-loathing of humanity won't like this, but the short version is that the Alliance fleet is a "serious rival to that of the turians".  The Turians could probably still win, but not without hideous losses to the point it wouldn't be worth it.

No we'd win, It'll shock the Turian when they discover the power of Carriers.  The strength of Carriers was a lesson learned by Humanity during WW2 when the more chaotic period of the Human race was coming to an end.  Also Thanix cannon can be fitted to Frigates and large fighters.

[TobiTobsen]

I saved the Council just to pimpslap the Turian Council member. Preferably just in the moment when the Reapers attack and I can say "Ah yes, "There are no Reapers". I dismissed that claim" *slap*. Maybe a SHEPARD PAWNCH to top it off.

[ME_Fan]

When I had to make the decision, I put myself in the scene. I knew soveriegn was the priority, and if it succeeded the galaxy would fall. I didn't know what would happen, so I sacrificed the council to protect the galaxy. Bunch of idiots anyway.

Modifié par ME_Fan, 02 mai 2011 - 02:19 .