51 réponses à ce sujet

[Ulicus]

The dwarven resistance to magic is probably down to their proximity to lyrium, more than anything else.

[ipgd]

Ulicus wrote...

The dwarven resistance to magic is probably down to their proximity to lyrium, more than anything else.

But aren't surface born dwarves also resistant to magic?

[Dave of Canada]

ipgd wrote...

Ulicus wrote...

The dwarven resistance to magic is probably down to their proximity to lyrium, more than anything else.

But aren't surface born dwarves also resistant to magic?

They are, though it could be passed genetically.

[Fast Jimmy]

leggywillow wrote...

The blood mage animations are a bit ridiculous.  Some palm-cutting here and there, okay.  But literally impaling yourself?  Geez.

Arishok: Uh-huh.  So that's an average day for you then?
Hawke: No doubt.
Arishok: You impale yourself with a staff and bleed out?
Hawke: Hell yeah.
Arishok: And I think at one point you said something about perforating vital organs?
Hawke: Nope!
Arishok: Actually I'm pretty sure you did.
Hawke: Nah, that ain't me.
Arishok: Okay, well this has been eye-opening for me.
Hawke: I'M THE BAS.

That is the most epic thing I have ever witnessed in a Bioware thread.

+1 and my hat off to you, leggywillow.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 02 mai 2011 - 01:15 .

[Big I]

ipgd wrote...

How exactly does blood magic work? I'd gotten the impression that blood was simply a substitute for mana/lyrium for fueling powerful spells, albeit an infinitely more convenient and available resource. Or are there spells that specifically require blood as an ingredient, separate from/in addition to the general mana/lyrium/blood fuel? Both?

Blood Control (like what Idunna does to Hawke and his companions) only works with blood, and so does summoning demons physically through the Veil. In Origins I remember reading in the codex that magisters could use blood magic to find the dreams of their enemies in the Fade and kill them, but since Feyriel isn't a blood mage who knows if that's correct.


In Origins there were three unique NPC blood magic spells - the Dark Ritual, Zathrian's summoning of Witherfang and the curse, and the spell the slaver magister in the alienage could cast to increase your constitution.

[LobselVith8]

ipgd wrote...

Ulicus wrote...

The dwarven resistance to magic is probably down to their proximity to lyrium, more than anything else.

But aren't surface born dwarves also resistant to magic?

Garin in Orzammar references that surface dwarves lose their immunity to lyrium.

[ipgd]

LobselVith8 wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Ulicus wrote...

The dwarven resistance to magic is probably down to their proximity to lyrium, more than anything else.

But aren't surface born dwarves also resistant to magic?

Garin in Orzammar references that surface dwarves lose their immunity to lyrium.

But not magic.

[LobselVith8]

I inferred that the dwarves resistance existed as a result of their immunity to lyrium, as it's used to enable spells.

[Nepenthe87]

ipgd wrote...

Ulicus wrote...

The dwarven resistance to magic is probably down to their proximity to lyrium, more than anything else.

But aren't surface born dwarves also resistant to magic?

Magic resistance is probably genetic adaptation to their environment. Lyrium is just concentrated magical energy in a physical form pretty much so it'd make sense for the few surface dwarves that there are wouldnt lose their resistance to magic.

If I'm not mistaken dwarves only started visiting the surface world in larger numbers just recently. It would take some generations of dwarves living on the surface for their magic resistance to get diluted in favor of other traits more suited to surface life.

The loss of resistance to lyrium is probably because lyrium is such a high concentration of magical energy that they need to be in constant contact with it to keep their resistance up. Kinda like how a drug users tolerance goes up the more they use, but are affected by a drug a lot more if they havent done it in a long time.

Modifié par Nepenthe87, 02 mai 2011 - 04:51 .

[LobselVith8]

Given how the codex about the primeval thaig mentioned that it looked like it was built with magic, it's possible that dwarves eventually adapted to their environment and became immune to magic because of their immunity to lyrium. Maybe it's what Sandal was referring to when he said that the magic would come back.

[Satyricon331]

Ulicus wrote...

I'm choosing to chalk the OTT staff impaling up to Varric exaggerating or Cassandra having a weird imagination. I'll concede I thought it was pretty cool the very first time I saw it... but I grew tired of it quickly. I'd have preferred an animation akin to Jowan's palm slitting.

I don't really get why even that much is necessary (besides titillating the pre-teen audience).  It seems you can use other people's blood even if they don't have cuts, so why not your own?  Why does your blood need air exposure?  Perhaps there's some mental impediment to using blood still inside your body....

Statulos wrote...
If blood from non-mages work, why don´t Blood Mages use slaughterhouses and power plants? 

Maybe they do?  Or at least, the Tevinters do...

edit: I have my Stupid on today.

Modifié par Satyricon331, 02 mai 2011 - 08:08 .

[Super_Fr33k]

Correct me if I'm wrong (as if anyone ever needs to say that online), but I don't recall any discussion of dwarves explicitly mentioning their resistance to blood magic. My understanding of blood magic is that it is entirely separate from lyrium and mana-based magic. As such, it would be my guess that dwarves' magic resistance has nothing to do with and does not apply to blood magic.

In-game, dwarves are never treated as less affected by blood magic, are they?

If this is correct, however, it raises an interesting question: could dwarves more easily learn blood magic than normal magic (assuming their lyrium exposure or whatever diminishes and lets them connect to the Fade)? It would be very interesting to see a rebirth of dwarven society fueled by nascent blood magic... I suspect that their altered physiologies, due to lyrium, have stifled both magical paths equally. If an engine breaks down, after all, it doesn't matter if it uses diesel or gasoline...

Another interesting question, to which we lack answers, as best I know, is why blood works so easily and so well for magic? If anything, it seems to connect mages more effectively to the Fade, since, iirc, only blood magic can sunder the Veil and summon spirits.

My speculation is this: the Veil is better understood as the interweaving of the physical world with the Fade, and a physical lifeform is better understood as a spirit locked into a cage of static reality. As such, magic involves altering the balance/concentration of uncaged Fade energy, which can in turn alter reality. Mana and lyrium-based magic represent depleting excess accumulations of Fade energy, like water leaking from a dam. A mage is someone who can concentrate this excess.
A mage is also someone aware of the Fade in a way non-mages aren't, and of a permanent, albeit weak, connection to the Fade. I think blood magic is simply using one's spirit to pry open this connection and let Fade energy leak out of it at an accelerated rate. As the spirit cannot be in two realms at once, the more the mage pushes his spirit into the Fade, the closer he comes to death. Exposing blood could simply be an efficient way of enlarging the amount of the Veil the spirit is destabilizing. This would explain why death and constant blood magic weaken the Veil on a lasting and large scale.

How does the mage use other beings for blood magic, then? By forcing their spirits to stretch the Veil thin instead perhaps, though this suggests using blood magic makes one more aware and able to influence another's spirit. It seems a logical explanation, and could work for dwarves to boot, since they are not cut off from the Fade entirely, merely denied subconscious access to it.

[IanPolaris]

In DAO (and DAA) anyway, Dwarven magic-reistance works just as well against bloodmagic as any other kind of magic.

-Polaris

[GavrielKay]

ipgd wrote...

Would menstrual blood work in blood magic? That seems like it would be a pretty damn convenient and relatively inconspicuous way to get away with it. I am actually especially curious about this.

It seems from the codex and from trying to generally understand the idea of life-force as fuel for magic (rather than mana/lyrium) that any blood shed without a loss of health wouldn't count.  The idea is life in the form of blood, not just any random jar of it laying around.  My 2 cents anyway...

[IanPolaris]

GavrielKay wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Would menstrual blood work in blood magic? That seems like it would be a pretty damn convenient and relatively inconspicuous way to get away with it. I am actually especially curious about this.

It seems from the codex and from trying to generally understand the idea of life-force as fuel for magic (rather than mana/lyrium) that any blood shed without a loss of health wouldn't count.  The idea is life in the form of blood, not just any random jar of it laying around.  My 2 cents anyway...

That depends on how you define "bloodmagic".  In DAO you'd be right.  Unless you are draining life-force (either your own or someone else's) it doesn't count.  In DA2, it seems that if blood is involved in the casting at all, it's bloodmagic.

-Polaris

Modifié par IanPolaris, 02 mai 2011 - 11:44 .

[GavrielKay]

IanPolaris wrote...

That depends on how you define "bloodmagic".  In DAO you'd be right.  Unless you are draining life-force (either your own or someone else's) it doesn't count.  In DA2, it seems that if blood is involved in the casting at all, it's bloodmagic.

-Polaris

I was thinking more about why the blood needs to be spilled rather than "used" inside the body or shed in a natural way.  I can understand lumping any spell involving blood as blood magic as generally it means you had to take it from somewhere - which would look bad to the lay person.  But I still think the idea of using life-force to provide the power explains why it must be from something like an injury.

[ipgd]

GavrielKay wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Would menstrual blood work in blood magic? That seems like it would be a pretty damn convenient and relatively inconspicuous way to get away with it. I am actually especially curious about this.

It seems from the codex and from trying to generally understand the idea of life-force as fuel for magic (rather than mana/lyrium) that any blood shed without a loss of health wouldn't count.  The idea is life in the form of blood, not just any random jar of it laying around.  My 2 cents anyway...

I certainly feel like I'm losing quite a bit of health during my period.

[Ox_Mox]

leggywillow wrote...

The blood mage animations are a bit ridiculous.  Some palm-cutting here and there, okay.  But literally impaling yourself?  Geez.

Arishok: Uh-huh.  So that's an average day for you then?
Hawke: No doubt.
Arishok: You impale yourself with a staff and bleed out?
Hawke: Hell yeah.
Arishok: And I think at one point you said something about perforating vital organs?
Hawke: Nope!
Arishok: Actually I'm pretty sure you did.
Hawke: Nah, that ain't me.
Arishok: Okay, well this has been eye-opening for me.
Hawke: I'M THE BAS.

Well played

[JabbaDaHutt30]

Maria Caliban wrote...

ipgd wrote...

How exactly does blood magic work? I'd gotten the impression that blood was simply a substitute for mana/lyrium for fueling powerful spells, albeit an infinitely more convenient and available resource. Or are there spells that specifically require blood as an ingredient, separate from/in addition to the general mana/lyrium/blood fuel? Both?

Both.

Would menstrual blood work in blood magic?

I got a thread locked for daring to ask the same.

Just so you know, this thread now belongs in the darkest depths of the internet where no light shines.

... why would you people ask this? Why?!

[JabbaDaHutt30]

ipgd wrote...

frustratemyself wrote...

As for the menstruation/blood magic I don't think it would be practical. Since it happens over days a woman would have to have a genuine medical condition for it to be workable into blood magic unless they were only doing very minor spells.

Couldn't she, um, collect it? ... I know painters who do this, so I figure...

Oh for FAWKES sake!

[Foolsfolly]

I'm choosing to chalk the OTT staff impaling up to Varric exaggerating

I don't.

The Warden did worse with one of the Warden Peak blood spells for the Mage. The Warden opens their throat and a geyser of blood flies forth while the Warden is suspended in air.

I don't remember the name of the spell but I remember pausing the game and laughing. And then calling people in to see me use it again.

[ipgd]

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

... why would you people ask this? Why?!

Surely you must be a little curious.

[Aliciatron]

menstrual blood isn't live blood, it's mostly dead blood and tissue from the lining of your uterus. this is why vampires can be around their human girlfriends on their periods and not go crazy (the last part is a joke)

[ipgd]

Aliciatron wrote...

menstrual blood isn't live blood, it's mostly dead blood and tissue from the lining of your uterus. this is why vampires can be around their human girlfriends on their periods and not go crazy (the last part is a joke)

I was hoping this thread could make it without a Twilight reference but you had to go and ruin everything.

[Annarl]

IanPolaris wrote...

In DAO (and DAA) anyway, Dwarven magic-reistance works just as well against bloodmagic as any other kind of magic.

-Polaris

It's interesting that Varric can be effected by the blood mage in the Blooming Rose though.