137 réponses à ce sujet

[mesmerizedish]

ReallyRue wrote...

And it isn't going to conform to legal age limits of certain countries. Saying having her under eighteen is creepy because Hawke sleeps with her and that's illegal in the US or wherever does not apply in a country like the UK, where it's legal for over 16's.

It varies by state in the US.

But I agree. There are, however, fairly universally accepted (in the West) thresholds of emotional maturity, and I'd expect that a developer would want a potential sexual partner to land safely above those thresholds.

If Merrill is 14 when she goes to Kirkwall, she's 13 in the Dalish origin, which makes Mahariel 13.

Think about that.

Duncan conscripted a 13-year-old girl (or boy, whatever) into a military order with a guaranteed death sentence in at most 30 years.

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 02 mai 2011 - 05:53 .

[hoorayforicecream]

ReallyRue wrote...

And it isn't going to conform to legal age limits of certain countries. Saying having her under eighteen is creepy because Hawke sleeps with her and that's illegal in the US or wherever does not apply in a country like the UK, where it's legal for over 16's.

I don't understand why people are making a big deal about this.

She could be 14 when the game starts. This is not equivalent to saying she is 14 when the game starts. And even if she is 14 when Hawke first meets her, she is 17 by the time the first time Hawke meets Merrill's internal clan.

It's not a big deal. We're just talking hypotheticals.

[Gamer Ftw]

Maria Caliban wrote...

ReallyRue wrote...

And it isn't going to conform to legal age limits of certain countries. Saying having her under eighteen is creepy because Hawke sleeps with her and that's illegal in the US or wherever does not apply in a country like the UK, where it's legal for over 16's.

What are you talking about?

If Merrill is 14 at the beginning of the game, she's 18 when she and Hawke have sex. That conforms to the legal age limits of all countries.

How is having sex with a 18-year-old inherently creepy and disgusting?

because you were flirting and pursuing her before then.

[Beerfish]

But Keeper Marethari! She said she was 18! I didn't know!

[tmp7704]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

If Merrill is 14 when she goes to Kirkwall, she's 13 in the Dalish origin, which makes Mahariel 13.

Mahariel can be easily couple years older than Merrill.

Think of it differently -- the "taint-induced death sentence in 30 years" doesn't really have much impact on character 25+ years old, given not that many are going to reach the ripe age of 55 even without it. Also, Riordan (and Duncan for this matter) definitely doesn't appear to be near this age, and he explicitly says he has few years left to his Calling.

[Maria Caliban]

Beerfish wrote...

But Keeper Marethari! She said she was 18! I didn't know!

If a woman tells you she's 20 and looks 16.. she's 12
If she tells you she's 26, and LOOKS 26.. she's damn near 40

Gamer Ftw wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

How is having sex with a 18-year-old inherently creepy and disgusting?

because you were flirting and pursuing her before then.

Actually, my character was flirting with and pursuing Isabela.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 02 mai 2011 - 06:00 .

[hoorayforicecream]

Gamer Ftw wrote...

because you were flirting and pursuing her before then.

You do realize you can flirt with and pursue a girl without having sex with her, right?

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 02 mai 2011 - 05:59 .

[ipgd]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Gamer Ftw wrote...

because you were flirting and pursuing her before then.

You do realize you can flirt with and pursue a girl without having sex with her, right?

What?!

[Gamer Ftw]

I could but I wouldn't if she was 15 or 16.

[hoorayforicecream]

ipgd wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Gamer Ftw wrote...

because you were flirting and pursuing her before then.

You do realize you can flirt with and pursue a girl without having sex with her, right?

What?!

I know! Scandalous, isn't it?

Gamer Ftw wrote...

I could but I wouldn't if she was 15 or 16.

And that'd be cool if every person on the planet had the same ideals as you. But that'd probably be pretty boring.

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 02 mai 2011 - 06:01 .

[Gamer Ftw]

I wonder why so many people want her to be younger.
Really I wasn't aware relationships were boring unless they are with underage girls.
That's okay though I will be BORING and stick to adults.

Modifié par Gamer Ftw, 02 mai 2011 - 06:03 .

[Maria Caliban]

Gamer Ftw wrote...

I wonder why so many people want her to be younger.

When did you stop beating your wife?

[Gamer Ftw]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Gamer Ftw wrote...

I wonder why so many people want her to be younger.

When did you stop beating your wife?

I have never been married...
I don't get the question I would never hurt a woman.

[ipgd]

Gamer Ftw wrote...

I could but I wouldn't if she was 15 or 16.

You also live in a society where wanting to bone a 15 or 16 year old isn't acceptable, whereas Hawke probably doesn't.

Not that what is or isn't acceptable has anything to do with physical attraction. You don't typically elect the candidates your little member chooses to salute.

[hoorayforicecream]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Duncan conscripted a 13-year-old girl (or boy, whatever) into a military order with a guaranteed death sentence in at most 30 years.

For comparison's sake, how old was Arthur when he pulled the sword from the stone?  Joan of Arc was 12 when she started having her visions.

Gamer Ftw wrote...

I wonder why so many people want her to be younger.
Really I wasn't aware relationships were boring unless they are with underage girls.
That's okay though I will be BORING and stick to adults.

Out of curiosity's sake, can you show us who you think wants her to be underage? 

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 02 mai 2011 - 06:11 .

[mesmerizedish]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Duncan conscripted a 13-year-old girl (or boy, whatever) into a military order with a guaranteed death sentence in at most 30 years.

For comparison's sake, how old was Arthur when he pulled the sword from the stone?  Joan of Arc was 12 when she started having her visions.

Also, this thirteen-year-old girl can have sex with Alistair, Zevran, or Leliana.

Again, medieval fantasy settings don't necessarily have our same standards of sexuality or adulthood. But game developers do. So, I think this is a situtation that BioWare would dismiss.

[tmp7704]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Also, this thirteen-year-old girl can have sex with Alistair, Zevran, or Leliana.

Well, this does happen in our times, too. Pregnancy of 14-15 year olds is uncomfortable subject but not a fictional one.

[Maria Caliban]

Gamer Ftw wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Gamer Ftw wrote...

I wonder why so many people want her to be younger.

When did you stop beating your wife?

I have never been married...
I don't get the question I would never hurt a woman.

I... okay.

I don't think anyone wants Merrill to be younger. My points are as follows.

1) She could be as young as 14 when the game starts.
2) That's okay because fantasy, especially that based on pre-modern times, isn't required to adhere to modern social norms.

I'll now add:
3) It's okay if someone imagines her as being 14 at the beginning of the game and sees their Hawke as being older. Role-playing can be more than hyperviolent wish-fulfillment.

When I RPed World of Darkness, my PCs did a wide range of things I'd find abhorrent in the real world, because they fit the themes and stories of the chronicle.

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Again, medieval fantasy settings don't necessarily have our same standards of sexuality or adulthood. But game developers do. So, I think this is a situtation that BioWare would dismiss.

And that's one of the reasons games are still entertainment instead of art.

Books, films, and even cable TV shows are allowed a far greater range of subject matter and presentation than games are. Lolita might be one of the most banned books in the Western world, but it's still considered work of classic literature.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 02 mai 2011 - 06:19 .

[Gamer Ftw]

but it's not legal to put sexual relationships with underage people in games isn't it?
so the dalish warden was probably older as was Merrill.

Modifié par Gamer Ftw, 02 mai 2011 - 06:24 .

[mesmerizedish]

tmp7704 wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Also, this thirteen-year-old girl can have sex with Alistair, Zevran, or Leliana.

Well, this does happen in our times, too. Pregnancy of 14-15 year olds is uncomfortable subject but not a fictional one.

I know, but the romances are portrayed as good things, healthy things (at least in Origins *looks at Anders and twitches*). My point, as I explained in my comment below the one you quote, is that BioWare still answer to modern standards, such as "14-year-olds shouldn't get pregnant."

[mesmerizedish]

Gamer Ftw wrote...

but it's not legal to put sexual relationships with underage people in games is it?
so the dalish warden was probably older as was Merrill.

That's entirely dependent on the relevant child-pornography laws.

In some countries, it's illegal even to draw chidlren having sex. Depending on how graphic the depiction, a video-game that features an ephebepihlic relationship could qualify.

[Herr Uhl]

tmp7704 wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Also, this thirteen-year-old girl can have sex with Alistair, Zevran, or Leliana.

Well, this does happen in our times, too. Pregnancy of 14-15 year olds is uncomfortable subject but not a fictional one.

Makes me think of home. But we need to go older than Alistair, Zevran or Leliana. Morrigan maybe (she is the oldest of them, yes) or Oghren.

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Again, medieval fantasy settings don't necessarily have our same standards of sexuality or adulthood. But game developers do. So, I think this is a situtation that BioWare would dismiss.

Yeah, it seems to be very similar to ours (maybe a bit more accepting for homosexuals) when it comes to that. Then again, everyone is either a kid or an adult frame, so it is hard to discern age.

[Maria Caliban]

Gamer Ftw wrote...

but it's not legal to put sexual relationships with underage people in games is it?
so the dalish warden was probably older as was Merrill.

It's legal to put them into novels and movies. I'd hope it's legal to put them into games.

[Gamer Ftw]

anyway if you look at a pic of merrill in origins she looks at least 20 to me.
http://images2.wikia...-Dalish_elf.jpg

Modifié par Gamer Ftw, 02 mai 2011 - 06:22 .