225 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

Udina's most major crime is not saying "Shepard, you're awesome, and I want to have your babies!" all the time.

[Dean_the_Young]

Now that's not quite fair. There are femSheps to consider.

'Shepard, you're awesome, and I want you to have my babies!'

[Zulu_DFA]

His second most major crime is not wanting to have blue babies.

[Seboist]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Udina's most major crime is not saying "Shepard, you're awesome, and I want to have your babies!" all the time.

The hate for Aria and Jack are for the same reason too.

[JunMadine]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Udina's most major crime is not saying "Shepard, you're awesome, and I want to have your babies!" all the time.

That is more then enough for most people.  I don't think he is incompetant just a jerkass to people that can't get him anything.  He is nicer to Shepard when he thinks Shepard advances his agenda.  When Shepard can or does hurt it he wants to kill to stop the interference but he knows Shep would win so he uses more devious methods.

[Moiaussi]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I think this is very likely considering that the "true" geth were busy cleaning up quarian worlds and building their "dyson sphere". The Heretics however had only one goal: war.

That doesn't mean that the Heretics were able to take with them all the warships, though. Just because the majority of Geth were not interested in going to war doesn't mean they would have accepted 5% of their population taking their defensive fleets.

And it isn't like they could bring shipyards with them. In the course of ME1 and ME2, we never did hear any mention of Geth shipyards, so there is nothing to indicate that the Heretics had any actual shipbuilding capacity.

[Fixers0]

Udina is just the typical political ******, a very anoying one.

I really think no sane person chosed him over Anderson in me 1

Modifié par Fixers0, 04 mai 2011 - 04:11 .

[JunMadine]

Well in the interest of finding out what if situation I have one playthrough with him. I am sure others have done the same.

[Moiaussi]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Udina's most major crime is not saying "Shepard, you're awesome, and I want to have your babies!" all the time.

No, it is selling humanity out after he started getting personal gain in terms of political power and perks. He fully expected to become the human counsellor, but forgot it was the Alliance that decides that and underestimated how much influence Shepard would end up with over the decision.

It isn't just a matter of not supporting Shepard. There were still Geth attacking human colonies directly, whereas the Terminus fleets had already been beaten back soundly by the Alliance. The Skyllian Blitz was defeated by a relative handull of troops with civilian support.

Torfan was costly, but again was an Alliance operation. Assuming for the momment Sovereign wasn't an issue, the Alliance might have been able to handle the Heretics alone eventually, but at great cost. If nothing else, they were unable to weaken the Geth enough to prevent the attack on the Citadel.

If the entire Geth navy had become involved (i.e. if there had been no schizm), the Alliance fleets would likely have been easily defeated. The Council didn't even accept the request to send a single stealth vessel to investigate, and Udina backed them despite the risks to the Alliance.

We do know that there was a Geth fleet there, and if the Normandy hadn't been diverted and delayed, it might have been defeated at Illos before they were ready, with surpise going to the Alliance, and without the neblula hobbling dreadnaught firepower rather than at the Citadel, where Saren had huge tactical advantages.

That isn't just hindsight in that the worst case would have been the Normandy gets there and finds nothing and that it was indeed just a hoax. Saren would have attacked the Citadel, or not, but nothing would have been lost other than the Council getting to say "I told you so"

[Fixers0]

JunMadine wrote...

Well in the interest of finding out what if situation I have one playthrough with him. I am sure others have done the same.

Of course i mean for their 'canon' playthrough.

[LorDC]

Although it is metagaming but why would any sane person chose man who betrayed humanity to be it's councilor?
By the end of ME 1 Anderson may look like better choice but ME 2 and novels show that Udina is obviously superior choice.

[Fixers0]

LorDC wrote...

Although it is metagaming but why would any sane person chose man who betrayed humanity to be it's councilor?
By the end of ME 1 Anderson may look like better choice but ME 2 and novels show that Udina is obviously superior choice.

I've never seen Anderson betraying humanity,  he is more idealistic sure, but he also is a man of intergrity, Udina on the Other hand, is a selfish, unpredictable and power hungry politician.

[lolwut666]

Udina never betrayed humanity. He betrayed Shepard and Anderson, but not humanity.

He isn't even that concerned with power for himself, because if you let the Council die in ME1 and nominate Anderson for the Council position, Udina comments that it makes sense because they are at war.

Udina cares about power for humanity above everything else, and that's what makes him good at his job.

You may not like him personally, but that's no reason to claim he is incompetent.

[LorDC]

Fixers0 wrote...
I've never seen Anderson betraying humanity,  he is more idealistic sure, but he also is a man of intergrity

Read Retribution novel. His actions speak for itself.

Fixers0 wrote...
Udina on the Other hand, is a selfish, unpredictable and power hungry politician.

He is not unpredictable and selfishness and power-hungriness are good qualities for politician.

Modifié par LorDC, 04 mai 2011 - 04:53 .

[Lvl20DM]

Udina doesn't really display incompetence, at least not anymore than most of the rest of the galactic community (humans included) display. On the other hand, it does seem like he is up to something criminal in Inquisition. I wonder if he is being set up as an antagonist in ME3?

[Fixers0]

LorDC wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

LorDC wrote...

Although it is metagaming but why would any sane person chose man who betrayed humanity to be it's councilor?
By the end of ME 1 Anderson may look like better choice but ME 2 and novels show that Udina is obviously superior choice.

I've never seen Anderson betraying humanity,  he is more idealistic sure, but he also is a man of intergrity, Udina on the Other hand, is a selfish, unpredictable and power hungry politician.

Read Retribution novel. His actions speak for itself.

I haven' rad it, but from what i have heared he did something agains Cerberus with the help of  the Turians,  not seeing a problem here.

When you help a befriend nation against a terrorist organisation who is a potential danger to various people including the galaxy's most respected man (Shepard) you are not a traitor 


What makes a good politican is subjective in everyone eyes , regardless being a good politicans does not equal being the best leader for your nation especially when you only care about your own concerns.

Modifié par Fixers0, 04 mai 2011 - 04:58 .

[LorDC]

Fixers0 wrote...
I haven' rad it, but from what i have heared he did something agains Cerberus with the help of  the Turians,  not seeing a problem here.

When you help a befriend nation against a terrorist organisation who is a potential danger to various people including the galaxy's most respected man (Shepard) you are not a traitor 

Regardless of Cerberus being good or bad involving hostile aliens into matters of humanity internal politic is open treachery of our species.

[LorDC]

Fixers0 wrote...
What makes a good politican is subjective in everyone eyes , regardless being a good politicans does not equal being the best leader for your nation especially when you only care about your own concerns.

Udina while having power is not leader of humanity but only Councilor. And he is best man for this place.

[Fixers0]

LorDC wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...
I haven' rad it, but from what i have heared he did something agains Cerberus with the help of  the Turians,  not seeing a problem here.

When you help a befriend nation against a terrorist organisation who is a potential danger to various people including the galaxy's most respected man (Shepard) you are not a traitor 

Regardless of Cerberus being good or bad involving hostile aliens into matters of humanity internal politic is open treachery of our species.

Where did you get the term hostile aliens,  or internal human politics? as far as i know the turians are an Alied nation And Cerberus is a danger to any species.

[Dean_the_Young]

Fixers0 wrote...
What makes a good politican is subjective in everyone eyes , regardless being a good politicans does not equal being the best leader for your nation especially when you only care about your own concerns.

Independent of being a politician, Udina is fundamentally an advocate, lobbyist, and representative of Humanity rolled into one. His entire job in ME1 is based upon getting the Alliance as much as possible.

Nor, mind you, that we have any cases in which Udina's self-interested contradicted a logical stance on advancing the Alliance. We have no evidence of personal corruption, or even necessarily personal ambition: in all the times we've interacted with him, what was good for him was good for the Alliance politically, and vice versa. Even if you put the most selfless pure-patriot in the position, that person would still be obliged to seek the advancement of Humanity's position.

Udina's unforgivable greed in ME1 was crossing Shepard. Why did he cross Shepard? The lazy answer is because he's greedy and wanted to advance himself/the Alliance. The longer, more inclusive answer is that he didn't believe Shepard, nor had much reason to, and so pushing his own/the Alliance's greed for 'more' meant crossing Shepard, and negative reason 'not' to.

[Fixers0]

LorDC wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...
What makes a good politican is subjective in everyone eyes , regardless being a good politicans does not equal being the best leader for your nation especially when you only care about your own concerns.

Udina while having power is not leader of humanity but only Councilor. And he is best man for this place.

So  puting personel concerns above those of the Nations = Good leader?

O i don't see a problem with that

 /sarcasm 

[lolwut666]

@Fixers0

When did he put personal concerns above the nation's?

[LorDC]

Fixers0 wrote...

LorDC wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...
I haven' rad it, but from what i have heared he did something agains Cerberus with the help of  the Turians,  not seeing a problem here.

When you help a befriend nation against a terrorist organisation who is a potential danger to various people including the galaxy's most respected man (Shepard) you are not a traitor 

Regardless of Cerberus being good or bad involving hostile aliens into matters of humanity internal politic is open treachery of our species.

Where did you get the term hostile aliens,  or internal human politics? as far as i know the turians are an Alied nation And Cerberus is a danger to any species.

1) Cerberus is faction within humanity thus any matters that involve Cerberus are humanity internal matters.
2) Turians while not being openly hostile to us are at the very least our rivals.

No nation on Earth in their right minds will allow other nation to mingle with it's internal problems. Why it would it be other way in ME universe?
That's not to mention that Cerberus is actually pro-human organization that has deep ties to the Alliance and any actions against it weaken humanity and involving aliens in this actions has possibility of huge military/political blowback.

[Fixers0]

lolwut666 wrote...

@Fixers0

When did he put personal concerns above the nation's?

By locking down the Normandy so that he would show of to council that het fully agrees with their (highly) questionable decisions.

[lolwut666]

Fixers0 wrote...

lolwut666 wrote...

@Fixers0

When did he put personal concerns above the nation's?

By locking down the Normandy so that he would show of to council that het fully agrees with their (highly) questionable decisions.

And do you seriously think that rebelling against the Council would get us a Council seat any faster?