53 réponses à ce sujet

[Sussurus]

Yes it's not that I don't like him, and depending on overall playstyle and how much I want to micro manage companions he can be of greater use than Varric at times.

Then Varric by far can if not outshoot him then over shoot him, with huge boosts to attack, speed and stamina regen he pretty much has the best passive ability talents of any character.

Going back to Sebastian even if you factor in his chaotic Amonen shifts between vengence, duty and peaceful improve the world attitude.
He is a very static character, despite what you do with him the result is always the same.
It can be said of most / all the companions as well, but even with Anders there is some lee way as to what you can do with / for them based on player choices.

I just think going the DLC route with him made him more vanilla than if he had been implemented main game.
Which makes me think why bother putting much effort into him and would rather leave him back in the chantry as back up.

Modifié par Sussurus, 03 mai 2011 - 12:59 .

[IanPolaris]

Yep, pretty much. By the time you get Sebeastian, you have no real incentive to use him...it's too late in the game and Varric is almsot as good an archer in most things, and better in others (such as area attacks, trapfinding, and lockpicking).

-Polaris

[CalJones]

Same - I've never had much cause to use him, despite the sexy accent. And the fact is, I like Anders and whilst I have issues with what he did, I'm not going to murderknife him for Seb's benefit. Consequently, I don't invest much in him given that he won't be there at the end.

[ReallyRue]

I like both Anders and Sebastian. Though I like Anders more, I sympathise completely with him wanting Anders to die at the end. He had every reason to feel that way, and even with his whole 'I'm going to bring an army against you' thing, of course he'd say that - he was in shock and grieving. Much like Leandra blames Hawke immediately after Bethany/Carver dies. Aside from his personal link to the Chantry, I think pretty much everybody would have a right to be angry and horrified by Anders at that point. If it happened to me in real life, I'd probably want to kill him too.

[Beerfish]

Funny thing about Sebastien, when discussing with Hawke and Elthina he shows true concern that the Divine will send an army and take out everyone in Kirkwall even if they are innocent. Then after the Janders act of chantry blowing up, if you let Anders go he says hes' going back to Starkhaven to assemble such an army that they'd come back and wipe Kirkwall out.

[Xilizhra]

Sebastian is repeatedly stated to be as impulsive as hell, and he's also under extreme emotional stress. I honestly don't think he seriously means what he says.

[Chuvvy]

He's DLC nothing will come of it. That's my guess anyway.

[Rifneno]

Slidell505 wrote...

He's DLC nothing will come of it. That's my guess anyway.

Well, that and the fact it's highly unlikely there'll be any large armies randomly checking Starkhaven's Chanter's Board.

[Xilizhra]

I think it's been said that Sebastian's story isn't done.

[Urazz]

A major problem for Sebastian is that he doesn't have his kingdom yet to get an army to march on Kirkwall. He still has to work on getting it back which will take years (even longer if you are his friend). Personally, I tend to side with him and kill Anders.

[thesuperdarkone]

There's also the issue of Hawke most likely being gone from the city along with Anders if you side with the mages for who knows how long. I can only imagine his reaction if he manages to make an army somehow and finds out Hawke and company are long gone.

[Foolsfolly]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Honestly, I can understand Sebastian's reaction to Hawke's refusal to kill Anders. Grand Cleric Elthina was his beloved mother figure, and he revered her as a spiritual guide and mentor. To see her senselessly and brutally murdered must have been horrifying.

However, it's his vow to invade Kirkwall that bothers me. In that respect, is he no better than the monster that he believes Anders to be? I can understand his desire for vengeance and retribution, but does the lives of countless innocents make it all worthwhile?

I agree with his reaction. His whole family was killed and he went after them. The only person from his past he had any connection to was just blown up by an Abomination and Hawke, a friend, spares the Abomination?

That's not something you should talk him out of. It's beyond reasonable for Seb to leave. Anders killed the last bit of family he had all to prove a stupid point in the stupidest way possible.

"Not all mages are evil! Now I blow up innocents so there can't be a peaceful discussion!"

[Rifneno]

Foolsfolly wrote...

I agree with his reaction. His whole family was killed and he went after them. The only person from his past he had any connection to was just blown up by an Abomination and Hawke, a friend, spares the Abomination?

That's not something you should talk him out of. It's beyond reasonable for Seb to leave. Anders killed the last bit of family he had all to prove a stupid point in the stupidest way possible.

"Not all mages are evil! Now I blow up innocents so there can't be a peaceful discussion!"

He wasn't trying to prove a point, he was trying to start a rebellion.  And he succeeded, I might add.

Regardless, it's not that he's pissed about Anders, it's that he wants to destroy Kirkwall.  He wants to be 1,000 times worse than Anders.  And not against an organization with a military that even kingdoms can't stand up to, against a city full of refugees and people so poor that eating every day is a luxury.  Son of a ****.  There's no good reason Hawke can't murderknife him.  And no, I'm not going to let him off the hook with "he'll calm down, he was just angry" until it's proven to be true.

[LobselVith8]

I wonder if we're supposed to consider Merrill as the one who teaches an apostate Hawke to use blood magic. Given Bethany's opposition to it as an Andrastian, I suspect Malcolm wouldn't have taught him. All the specializations make it seem that Hawke learned them which he was in Kirkwall, but it seems that he knows only one blood mage. I rather liked how Merrill contrasted the Chantry views on blood magic and the denizens of the Fade with her perspective.

[Rifneno]

LobselVith8 wrote...

I wonder if we're supposed to consider Merrill as the one who teaches an apostate Hawke to use blood magic. Given Bethany's opposition to it as an Andrastian, I suspect Malcolm wouldn't have taught him. All the specializations make it seem that Hawke learned them which he was in Kirkwall, but it seems that he knows only one blood mage. I rather liked how Merrill contrasted the Chantry views on blood magic and the denizens of the Fade with her perspective.

I think you replied to the wrong thread.  

But on that note, I don't think it had to be Merrill.  Hawke can learn a number of specializations for no known reason.  Reaver being the oddest as it even says it requires ritually prepared dragon blood.  If nothing else, Kirkwall seems to be crawling with blood mages and Varric seems to have a vast connections network.

[Foolsfolly]

Rifneno wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

I agree with his reaction. His whole family was killed and he went after them. The only person from his past he had any connection to was just blown up by an Abomination and Hawke, a friend, spares the Abomination?

That's not something you should talk him out of. It's beyond reasonable for Seb to leave. Anders killed the last bit of family he had all to prove a stupid point in the stupidest way possible.

"Not all mages are evil! Now I blow up innocents so there can't be a peaceful discussion!"

He wasn't trying to prove a point, he was trying to start a rebellion.  And he succeeded, I might add.

Regardless, it's not that he's pissed about Anders, it's that he wants to destroy Kirkwall.  He wants to be 1,000 times worse than Anders.  And not against an organization with a military that even kingdoms can't stand up to, against a city full of refugees and people so poor that eating every day is a luxury.  Son of a ****.  There's no good reason Hawke can't murderknife him.  And no, I'm not going to let him off the hook with "he'll calm down, he was just angry" until it's proven to be true.

Wouldn't know any of that without this site. I've never not killed Anders after getting Seb. So I wouldn't know enough to say anything about that aspect of it.

[LobselVith8]

I wonder if the DLC will finally have the companions comment on Hawke's specializations, including blood magic. I would imagine that Sebastian would have a serious problem, given his refusal to enter the Fade because of his religious beliefs. That is, if Sebastian is still at Hawke's side in the post-DA2 DLC or expansion. I wonder how they would reconcile the two different paths that Sebastian can take in regards to Hawke's decision with Anders - either he is going to be an ally and his involvement could change his view on mages, or he can leave in anger and seek vengeance against Anders (and possibly Hawke).

I can imagine that if Anders is still alive, that Sebastian's reunion with him is going to end up getting violent.

[Xilizhra]

Regardless, it's not that he's pissed about Anders, it's that he wants to destroy Kirkwall. He wants to be 1,000 times worse than Anders. And not against an organization with a military that even kingdoms can't stand up to, against a city full of refugees and people so poor that eating every day is a luxury. Son of a ****. There's no good reason Hawke can't murderknife him. And no, I'm not going to let him off the hook with "he'll calm down, he was just angry" until it's proven to be true.

The very fact of how insane his statement is leads me to believe that he was just saying stupid crap out of anger. Him actually doing it wouldn't be in character at all.

[Rifneno]

Xilizhra wrote...

Regardless, it's not that he's pissed about Anders, it's that he wants to destroy Kirkwall. He wants to be 1,000 times worse than Anders. And not against an organization with a military that even kingdoms can't stand up to, against a city full of refugees and people so poor that eating every day is a luxury. Son of a ****. There's no good reason Hawke can't murderknife him. And no, I'm not going to let him off the hook with "he'll calm down, he was just angry" until it's proven to be true.

The very fact of how insane his statement is leads me to believe that he was just saying stupid crap out of anger. Him actually doing it wouldn't be in character at all.

Why not?  Think of how you meet him.  He's hiring hitmen to kill someone he thinks killed his family.  We don't know how certain his evidence is as we're never informed of it, but when he actually joins the group it's clear he did not know why.  For all he knew they were duped with some story and false evidence that the royal family were evildoers themselves.  Maybe Flint Company never even did it and they were just framed.  Not hard to do in an age where there's virtually no criminal investigative technology.  Yet he still hired someone to kill them.  The fact that he defaults to the Chantry and their "kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out if they get out of hand" mindset indicates to me he may very well be willing to destroy the city to get this "den of malificarum."

I'm not saying he'll definitely carry through with it... but I sure wouldn't give the coward the opportunity if I had the chance to take him out then and there.

[Foolsfolly]

I don't think he'd slaughter all of Kirkwall that seems extreme for him. Again, never seen what he says or how he says it, but that's extreme for him.

I can see him raising an army, slaughtering mages and hunting down Hawke and Hawke's friends. That's very similar to his introduction and his companion quests for Acts 1 and 2. But the entire city? That's extreme.

[Rifneno]

Foolsfolly wrote...

I don't think he'd slaughter all of Kirkwall that seems extreme for him. Again, never seen what he says or how he says it, but that's extreme for him.

I can see him raising an army, slaughtering mages and hunting down Hawke and Hawke's friends. That's very similar to his introduction and his companion quests for Acts 1 and 2. But the entire city? That's extreme.

 Skip to 8:20 for the coward's temper tantrum.

[IanPolaris]

LobselVith8 wrote...

I wonder if we're supposed to consider Merrill as the one who teaches an apostate Hawke to use blood magic. Given Bethany's opposition to it as an Andrastian, I suspect Malcolm wouldn't have taught him. All the specializations make it seem that Hawke learned them which he was in Kirkwall, but it seems that he knows only one blood mage. I rather liked how Merrill contrasted the Chantry views on blood magic and the denizens of the Fade with her perspective.

Malcolm seemed to be very tightly controlled.  Bethany may be opposed to bloodmagic on general principles, but it's not necessarily a given that Malcolm would be....or even if he was, I could see him teach both how to recognize it when the say it (and Bethany certainly can recognize bloodmagic when she sees it).

All that said, I think it's virtually certain that Merrill taught Mage-Hawke his bloodmagic since Merrill doesn't view bloodmagic as evil and Hawke is very close to her.

-Polaris

[Dave of Canada]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Sadly, almost no one likes Sebastian, save for people who like writing about shameboners on the kmeme.

I like him and I've done no such thing.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 04 mai 2011 - 07:26 .

[Grand_Enchanter]

Rifneno wrote...
Why not?  Think of how you meet him.  He's hiring hitmen to kill someone he thinks killed his family.  We don't know how certain his evidence is as we're never informed of it, but when he actually joins the group it's clear he did not know why.  For all he knew they were duped with some story and false evidence that the royal family were evildoers themselves.  Maybe Flint Company never even did it and they were just framed.  Not hard to do in an age where there's virtually no criminal investigative technology.  Yet he still hired someone to kill them.  The fact that he defaults to the Chantry and their "kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out if they get out of hand" mindset indicates to me he may very well be willing to destroy the city to get this "den of malificarum."

Well, one of the mercenaries drop Meghan Vael's locket (presumably belonging to a family member of Seb's). I doubt very much Sebastian was wrong. And I doubt a group of mercenaries care about who they kill, as long as they get paid.

I tend to give Sebastian a lot of leeway at the end because Elthina was like a mother to him. To lose her in such a shocking way had to be painful. And if you side with Anders (which I have, in some playthroughs), you're basically allowing her murderer to walk free. If I was in Seb's shoes I know I'd be furious. I think his threats were said in the heat of the moment due to his anger and grief. Maybe something will come of it but The Divine is a threat I take more seriously since it seems she was already considering an Exalted March on the city even before Anders blew up the Chantry.

[Rifneno]

IanPolaris wrote...

Malcolm seemed to be very tightly controlled.  Bethany may be opposed to bloodmagic on general principles, but it's not necessarily a given that Malcolm would be....or even if he was, I could see him teach both how to recognize it when the say it (and Bethany certainly can recognize bloodmagic when she sees it).

All that said, I think it's virtually certain that Merrill taught Mage-Hawke his bloodmagic since Merrill doesn't view bloodmagic as evil and Hawke is very close to her.

-Polaris

You can easily get your first specialization and take blood magic before meeting Merrill.  I usually do, even.  I spend as little time as possible around the marauding pack of racist known as the Dalish.

xJuliax wrote...

Well, one of the mercenaries drop Meghan Vael's locket (presumably belonging to a family member of Seb's). I doubt very much Sebastian was wrong. And I doubt a group of mercenaries care about who they kill, as long as they get paid.

I tend to give Sebastian a lot of leeway at the end because Elthina was like a mother to him. To lose her in such a shocking way had to be painful. And if you side with Anders (which I have, in some playthroughs), you're basically allowing her murderer to walk free. If I was in Seb's shoes I know I'd be furious. I think his threats were said in the heat of the moment due to his anger and grief. Maybe something will come of it but The Divine is a threat I take more seriously since it seems she was already considering an Exalted March on the city even before Anders blew up the Chantry.

I didn't say he was wrong, I said he doesn't know enough to warrant hiring assassins.  And he doesn't.  Hindsight is 20/20, but he did not have hindsight.

Yes, the Divine is a much serious threat.  I support torching her, and the rest of the Chantry.  Waiting on Anders to pack.  His kitten ran away.  

Anyway, no matter how you look at it Sebastian is a bloody coward.  The man he wants vengeance on is barely out of arm's reach and he has an extremely deadly long-range weapon.  But he doesn't have the balls to take action.  Others like Fenris didn't lose anyone in that Chantry, but if they leave Hawke during that final battle they actually show up to fight for what they believe in rather than tuck their tail between their legs and run home to find someone to hide behind.  Spineless yellow-belly scumbag.