167 réponses à ce sujet

[Pani Mauser]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

I'm personally quite glad Liara will be back,  she's the only love interest that well sparked my interest in the games.  It did suck that she was dropped to a cameo in ME2 but, truthfully I got over it rather quickly.  I figured there was a purpose behind her absense in the game.  

Also,  I would hate if the character select screen just became little portraits of characters like a fighting game.

Thats' s the point. Everyone who tells that "ME2 characters ending up as cameos" is reasonable thing are either Liara or VS fans. You got our characters back and you see it as the only reasonable outcome. I'd be in your camp if it was announced that Mordin, Grunt, Kasumi and Legion are in your party for sure and all LIs are guaranteed to have as many dialogs as permanent squadmates, even if they don't fight by your side.

As for Liara, thanks, but I'm not that insecure to want cute shy alien virgin of fanservice race who is all over you from the second she meets you. She gets better in ME2 and I loved the fact that she is the new Shadow Broker with awesome base. I see no reason to change that. Add more dialogs to her on that base, and it would be perfect in my eyes. But I bet you will disagree.

Actually, if cameo characters were accessible at any time you want to see them and had as much dialogs as permanent squadmembers, I would be fine with this, but  don't believe it is going to happen. Even if you can go back to the characters, it most probably will be like Anderson or Wrex - with the same one dialog no matter what. Very satisfying indeed <_<

Also, does character selection screen really matter at all? To me it is one of the least important things ever. It has one purpose - to let you choose characters, that's all. They can make it just the list (as in suicide mission) for all I care.

[KainrycKarr]

They confirmed VS, Liara, Garrus, and someone else I think as squaddies, and mentioned everyone's back, but they haven't confirmed who is and is not perma-squaddie(inc. Liara and Co.).

So we don't know who's back for good.

My bet is on the LI's getting the full monty on squadmate status, and everyone else is temp or cameo.

[aimlessgun]

Babe Mause wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

I'm personally quite glad Liara will be back,  she's the only love interest that well sparked my interest in the games.  It did suck that she was dropped to a cameo in ME2 but, truthfully I got over it rather quickly.  I figured there was a purpose behind her absense in the game.  

Also,  I would hate if the character select screen just became little portraits of characters like a fighting game.

Thats' s the point. Everyone who tells that "ME2 characters ending up as cameos" is reasonable thing are either Liara or VS fans. You got our characters back and you see it as the only reasonable outcome. I'd be in your camp if it was announced that Mordin, Grunt, Kasumi and Legion are in your party for sure and all LIs are guaranteed to have as many dialogs as permanent squadmates, even if they don't fight by your side.

As for Liara, thanks, but I'm not that insecure to want cute shy alien virgin of fanservice race who is all over you from the second she meets you. She gets better in ME2 and I loved the fact that she is the new Shadow Broker with awesome base. I see no reason to change that. Add more dialogs to her on that base, and it would be perfect in my eyes. But I bet you will disagree.

Actually, if cameo characters were accessible at any time you want to see them and had as much dialogs as permanent squadmembers, I would be fine with this, but  don't believe it is going to happen. Even if you can go back to the characters, it most probably will be like Anderson or Wrex - with the same one dialog no matter what. Very satisfying indeed <_<

Also, does character selection screen really matter at all? To me it is one of the least important things ever. It has one purpose - to let you choose characters, that's all. They can make it just the list (as in suicide mission) for all I care.

Err...I don't think it's about what character people like at all. Zaeed is one of my favorite characters and I accept that it is completely reasonable he won't return.

It's about realizing Mass Effect is a very hard to make game made by a company with limited resources: AKA understanding how the world works and not thinking everything is rainbows and sunshine and all your dreams will come true.

[Pani Mauser]

Manic Sheep wrote...

What actually has been said in terms of squadmates?  I know about the ones confirmed as temp or permanent in the GI article but I haven’t seen any of the latest GI stuff because It will kill my damn bandwidth so if anything was mentioned there I don't know about it (if there is a text summary anywhere people could link me to I would apreciate it)

GI-article  says that Liara, Ash/Kaidan, Garrus (if he survives), James Sanders (new guy) will be playable. Others are unconfirmed.  

[Wittand25]

Babe Mause wrote...
This actual part of GI-article made me very frustrated and destroyed all my hype for ME3. It says "Liara and VS are important, we need new character for newcomers, and everyone else can be thrown awat for all we care", only not that honest.

I'd love to see reaction of Liara and VS fans, if their favourites stayed cameos in ME3 and developers claimed to give those players "a satisfying payoff ". Were VS and Liara fans happy with cameos of their favourite characters in ME2? I have't seen that.

Seeing your favourite character as only a cameo is NEVER 
satisfying


And the character selection screen argument is ridiculous. Fighting games somehow manage to keep roasters of 30+ characters and doesn't seem to have an issue with it.

The Wrex fans were satisfied so it can be done.

Everyone but Liara can be dead, and putting resources into developing them for a full squad member is therefore pretty wasteful. That is the reason why many if not most or even all of them will not be permanent  squad members. A squad-member of a Bioware game does need a lot more resources to be developed than a pokemon after all.

What I do not understand though is why they made ME2 so much about gathering a squad when it must have been clear to the developers that there is no way that they can keep the team for ME3 and many people will be pissed of because of that.

Modifié par Wittand25, 02 mai 2011 - 07:22 .

[Manic Sheep]

Babe Mause wrote...

Manic Sheep wrote...

What actually has been said in terms of squadmates? I know about the ones confirmed as temp or permanent in the GI article but I haven’t seen any of the latest GI stuff because It will kill my damn bandwidth so if anything was mentioned there I don't know about it (if there is a text summary anywhere people could link me to I would apreciate it)

GI-article says that Liara, Ash/Kaidan, Garrus (if he survives), James Sanders (new guy) will be playable. Others are unconfirmed.

Oh so we still have no new info? I thought that since people are freaking out something else might have come up. ME3 is still a long way off and we don't know who will be there as a squad mates and who won't. There isn't enough info for it to be worth freaking out about yet.

[tonnactus]

crimzontearz wrote...


but I agree that Bioware need to find the quad to say "you killed everyone in ME2? Deal with the consequences and therefore less content"....otherwise what was the point?

The only point was to produce a meaningless filler.(thats exactly what Mass Effect 2 is)

[Nashiktal]

Wittand25 wrote...

Babe Mause wrote...
This actual part of GI-article made me very frustrated and destroyed all my hype for ME3. It says "Liara and VS are important, we need new character for newcomers, and everyone else can be thrown awat for all we care", only not that honest.

I'd love to see reaction of Liara and VS fans, if their favourites stayed cameos in ME3 and developers claimed to give those players "a satisfying payoff ". Were VS and Liara fans happy with cameos of their favourite characters in ME2? I have't seen that.

Seeing your favourite character as only a cameo is NEVER 
satisfying


And the character selection screen argument is ridiculous. Fighting games somehow manage to keep roasters of 30+ characters and doesn't seem to have an issue with it.

The Wrex fans were satisfied so it can be done.

Everyone but Liara can be dead, and putting resources into developing them for a full squad member is therefore pretty wasteful. That is the reason why many if not most or even all of them will not be permanent  squad members. A squad-member of a Bioware game does need a lot more resources to be developed than a pokemon after all.

What I do not understand though is why they made ME2 so much about gathering a squad when it must have been clear to the developers that there is no way that they can keep the team for ME3 and many people will be pissed of because of that.

I wasn't satisfied, I just quelled by dissapointment because there is a chance he will play a bigger role in ME3. I assume most fans were like that, kept up hope because there is one last game. If fans are not satisifed in ME3... Well there is no ME4 to look forward to in regards to Tali, or Wrex, or whoever else you want to see.

[KainrycKarr]

Wittand25 wrote...

Babe Mause wrote...
This actual part of GI-article made me very frustrated and destroyed all my hype for ME3. It says "Liara and VS are important, we need new character for newcomers, and everyone else can be thrown awat for all we care", only not that honest.

I'd love to see reaction of Liara and VS fans, if their favourites stayed cameos in ME3 and developers claimed to give those players "a satisfying payoff ". Were VS and Liara fans happy with cameos of their favourite characters in ME2? I have't seen that.

Seeing your favourite character as only a cameo is NEVER 
satisfying


And the character selection screen argument is ridiculous. Fighting games somehow manage to keep roasters of 30+ characters and doesn't seem to have an issue with it.

The Wrex fans were satisfied so it can be done.

Everyone but Liara can be dead, and putting resources into developing them for a full squad member is therefore pretty wasteful. That is the reason why many if not most or even all of them will not be permanent  squad members. A squad-member of a Bioware game does need a lot more resources to be developed than a pokemon after all.

What I do not understand though is why they made ME2 so much about gathering a squad when it must have been clear to the developers that there is no way that they can keep the team for ME3 and many people will be pissed of because of that.

Since when?

[aimlessgun]

The thing about Wrex is that what he's doing makes sense for the story, and it feels right. It feels like the best option from a story perspective if you take out player desire from the equation. Doesn't that count for something?

There are plenty of legitimate and good reasons for certain squadmates to leave after ME2. Will people be angry at Bioware for writing the story that made the most sense?

[Wittand25]

KainrycKarr wrote...

Wittand25 wrote ...
The Wrex fans were satisfied so it can be done.

Since when?

Since there were hardly any complaints even after the ME2 launch and the total amount of zero complaints a year after.

OK saying that the fans are satisfied is wrong since the term does include even the hard core crowd, but the general community seems satisfied by his role in ME2. And let´s face it if it comes to resource allocation it is the general player base that counts and not the hard core fan crowd.

[Manic Sheep]

aimlessgun wrote...

The thing about Wrex is that what he's doing makes sense for the story, and it feels right. It feels like the best option from a story perspective if you take out player desire from the equation. Doesn't that count for something?

There are plenty of legitimate and good reasons for certain squadmates to leave after ME2. Will people be angry at Bioware for writing the story that made the most sense?

I'm fine with squad mates leaving you squad so long as there is actually a legitimate reason, they aren’t reduced to a short crappy cameo with no effect on anything and they are actually doing something rather than falling off the face of the earth (universe whatever). I was pretty happy with Wrex in ME2 tho they could have done abit more. I think it’s a good direction of his character to take and its more interesting than him continuing to follow Shepard. I would be fine with the VS being a temp squad mate as long as they are actually doing their own thing and working with Shepard. If they had former squad mates rallying their own groups it might be kind of cool depending on how it’s done. That said some of them at least do need to come back as permanent squad mates, they should not do that with everyone and I do not want to have to start from scratch again in ME3.

Modifié par Manic Sheep, 02 mai 2011 - 08:18 .

[ExtremeOne]

I think it is bull **** that Bioware has protected Liara and the VS. Those 3 are protected by Bioware so they can F**king rot on the ship, they screw us out of ME 2 squad mates and I will find ways to murder those 3 in ME 3 . Oh please the story of Mass Effect is making less sense as time goes on . the only thing that makes sense in it . Is what Wrex is doing.

[SalsaDMA]

aimlessgun wrote...

Because to expect that would be incredibly naive. It would mean you didn't understand that Mass Effect was a an extremely expensive and difficult to make game produced by a company interested in making money. It would mean you didn't really work out in your head the difficulties and challenges of bringing back every single squadmate. It would mean you expect impossible perfection out of the world you live in.

No. It would mean he expected Bioware to come through on their own promises about the series.

If the choices made leading up to the suicide mission becomes pointless in the regard that wether or not members of your team survives is a pointless question, then bioware have specifically chosen to NOT make choices matter.

Contrary to their promises of what the entire franchise was supposed to be about.

Ofc, with EA in charge, I don't hold much faith about 'artistic creativity' anymore. It wouldn't be the first franchise they took the soul out of.

[Wittand25]

SalsaDMA wrote...
No. It would mean he expected Bioware to come through on their own promises about the series.

If the choices made leading up to the suicide mission becomes pointless in the regard that wether or not members of your team survives is a pointless question, then bioware have specifically chosen to NOT make choices matter.

Contrary to their promises of what the entire franchise was supposed to be about.

First just because some choiches do not matter does not mean that all choiches do not matter.

And second even if a squad mate does not return as full squad mate their survival can still matter, actually for some them surviving and then leaving would allow for them to take important roles in the plot (e.g the Quarians agree to peace with the Geth only if a loyal Tali is part of the Admiral´s board and lobbies for Shepard, the Geth only agree to send troops for Shepard´s aid if Legion returns to them, ...)

[ExtremeOne]

SalsaDMA wrote...

aimlessgun wrote...

Because to expect that would be incredibly naive. It would mean you didn't understand that Mass Effect was a an extremely expensive and difficult to make game produced by a company interested in making money. It would mean you didn't really work out in your head the difficulties and challenges of bringing back every single squadmate. It would mean you expect impossible perfection out of the world you live in.

No. It would mean he expected Bioware to come through on their own promises about the series.

If the choices made leading up to the suicide mission becomes pointless in the regard that wether or not members of your team survives is a pointless question, then bioware have specifically chosen to NOT make choices matter.

Contrary to their promises of what the entire franchise was supposed to be about.

Ofc, with EA in charge, I don't hold much faith about 'artistic creativity' anymore. It wouldn't be the first franchise they took the soul out of.

   



Player choice left Mass Effect long ago.  we are seeing that with ME 3 they do not give a dam about player choice 

[ExtremeOne]

Wittand25 wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...
No. It would mean he expected Bioware to come through on their own promises about the series.

If the choices made leading up to the suicide mission becomes pointless in the regard that wether or not members of your team survives is a pointless question, then bioware have specifically chosen to NOT make choices matter.

Contrary to their promises of what the entire franchise was supposed to be about.

First just because some choiches do not matter does not mean that all choiches do not matter.

And second even if a squad mate does not return as full squad mate their survival can still matter, actually for some them surviving and then leaving would allow for them to take important roles in the plot (e.g the Quarians agree to peace with the Geth only if a loyal Tali is part of the Admiral´s board and lobbies for Shepard, the Geth only agree to send troops for Shepard´s aid if Legion returns to them, ...)

   



I totally disagree why should we worry about a squad mate in 2 surviving if it really means nothing in 3. since they won't be on the squad . 

[Pani Mauser]

aimlessgun wrote...


Err...I don't think it's about what character people like at all. Zaeed is one of my favorite characters and I accept that it is completely reasonable he won't return.

But as I understood, you at least don't mind that Zaeed will be replaced by Ash/Kaiden or Liara? Good for you. And I hate to see that my favourite characters are valued by devs less than Liara or VS. After all, if everyone liked confirmed squadmates, no one would make threads like that.

aimlessgun wrote...

It's about realizing Mass Effect is a very hard to make game made by a company with limited resources: AKA understanding how the world works and not thinking everything is rainbows and sunshine and all your dreams will come true.

I won't go in details about my life, but I know how games are done, thank you very much. I know that some things had to be cut. The question is what to cut, and BW decided to cut things I like and give me things I never wanted to have.

They added many things to ME3 which I don't care about at all (new husks, weapon customization, more clever enemy AI etc), and I'd rather see that cut and those funds diverted to the squad. Well, it is their game and it is their right to make decisions, but then I have the right to vent my frustration about their decisions.

Also, I know that things are so far in the process that threads like this don't matter. If they started recording voices, it means the game is complete, so player input doesn’t matter now. But I hope that threads like this will result in subsequent DLCs with special missions for characters that were turned into cameos. It's the last game of the series, and I have no hope for seeing the characters I like in the next game, so I want at least some mission DLC.

Also, makes me wonder why they didn't just kill some characters if they didn't have anything big planned for them in ME3. The fact that you can save them all gave me false hope that I can have survivors in ME3, which leads to my current frustration.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

One angle I think alot of people are forgetting regarding ME2 squadmates is that. While they may not be vital to the plot (as in needed to advance from A to . I will not be suprised if getting one of the better endings requires that most of your ME2 squad survives.

[PnXMarcin1PL]

like it really matters op...
deal with it. It's so obvious man. There is nothing more to keep Shepard's team together after SM.

[ExtremeOne]

at least in Gears 3 the same crew from Gears 1 will be there with a couple of add ons maybe Bioware needs to learn from Epic games on how to handle a trilogy

[Manic Sheep]

Lizardviking wrote...

One angle I think alot of people are forgetting regarding ME2 squadmates is that. While they may not be vital to the plot (as in needed to advance from A to . I will not be suprised if getting one of the better endings requires that most of your ME2 squad survives.

Right there are more ways to make who lives and who dies count other than just who appears on you squad in ME3.

[CroGamer002]

^They don't have import feature in Gears of War.

[ExtremeOne]

Mesina2 wrote...

^They don't have import feature in Gears of War.

   


so Bioware could easliy put the whole teams in the game and have us player chose who we want on the squad . If the pathetic VS can be in ME 2 no matter what one does in ME 1 then yeah the whole crews from both games can be in 3 

[Shadowrun1177]

Though I think it sucks that even though I had every squad mate survive the SM some will only have bit parts or possibly temp squad members at most in ME3. And am worried favorites from ME2 and even characters like Tali and Garrus who have been with Shepard since ME1 might not be involved as much as I would like in ME3 I'm reserving judgment on it all till I know more facts and even play the full game.

Modifié par Shadowrun1177, 02 mai 2011 - 08:52 .