167 réponses à ce sujet

[crimzontearz]

KainrycKarr wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...
No. It would mean he expected Bioware to come through on their own promises about the series.

If the choices made leading up to the suicide mission becomes pointless in the regard that wether or not members of your team survives is a pointless question, then bioware have specifically chosen to NOT make choices matter.

Contrary to their promises of what the entire franchise was supposed to be about.

First just because some choiches do not matter does not mean that all choiches do not matter.

And second even if a squad mate does not return as full squad mate their survival can still matter, actually for some them surviving and then leaving would allow for them to take important roles in the plot (e.g the Quarians agree to peace with the Geth only if a loyal Tali is part of the Admiral´s board and lobbies for Shepard, the Geth only agree to send troops for Shepard´s aid if Legion returns to them, ...)

   



I totally disagree why should we worry about a squad mate in 2 surviving if it really means nothing in 3. since they won't be on the squad . 

You are a complete and total moron. They have already stated EVERYONE is coming back. They have only said that not EVERYONE is going to be a permanent squadmate. They said that SOME will, but not ALL.

You can bet your ass Miranda will be one of them.

So take that big bottle of rage out of your *** and quit spamming the forums with your nonsensical, idiotic ramblings.

you are naive

Wrex came back in ME2 right? for all we know all the "killables" could come back as Wrex 

translation

inconsequentially

[Pwener2313]

People hating on something they know nothing about. Im sick of people being "mad" at BW for not giving them they're imaginary friends. I bet the OP wouldn't get so mad if it was a real friend.

Just plain ridiculous.

[crimzontearz]

Pwener2313 wrote...

People hating on something they know nothing about. Im sick of people being "mad" at BW for not giving them they're imaginary friends. I bet the OP wouldn't get so mad if it was a real friend.

Just plain ridiculous.

so...people should not be held accountable? let's handwave everything right?

you wonder why people do not take the medium seriously

[Pwener2313]

It's a frigging video game! It ain't real! Get over yourselfs.

[crimzontearz]

Pwener2313 wrote...

It's a frigging video game! It ain't real! Get over yourselfs.

that's the attitude that leads to ****** poor games because "it's just a game"

it's why the medium is used as a scapegoat,

it's why other storytelling media like books movies and other visual arts can tackle certain "uncomfortable" issues but Videogames, as effective a medium as they can be, cannot because everyone rises up in arms and those with YOUR mindset cave in because "it's just a game"

please, seriously, if you are "ok" with everything because "it's just a videogame" just shut up and stop perpetrating that line of thought since ultimately one way or the other it just does not matter to you 

[KainrycKarr]

crimzontearz wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...
No. It would mean he expected Bioware to come through on their own promises about the series.

If the choices made leading up to the suicide mission becomes pointless in the regard that wether or not members of your team survives is a pointless question, then bioware have specifically chosen to NOT make choices matter.

Contrary to their promises of what the entire franchise was supposed to be about.

First just because some choiches do not matter does not mean that all choiches do not matter.

And second even if a squad mate does not return as full squad mate their survival can still matter, actually for some them surviving and then leaving would allow for them to take important roles in the plot (e.g the Quarians agree to peace with the Geth only if a loyal Tali is part of the Admiral´s board and lobbies for Shepard, the Geth only agree to send troops for Shepard´s aid if Legion returns to them, ...)

   



I totally disagree why should we worry about a squad mate in 2 surviving if it really means nothing in 3. since they won't be on the squad . 

You are a complete and total moron. They have already stated EVERYONE is coming back. They have only said that not EVERYONE is going to be a permanent squadmate. They said that SOME will, but not ALL.

You can bet your ass Miranda will be one of them.

So take that big bottle of rage out of your *** and quit spamming the forums with your nonsensical, idiotic ramblings.

you are naive

Wrex came back in ME2 right? for all we know all the "killables" could come back as Wrex 

translation

inconsequentially

What part of my quote is naive. They said some will be permanent, some will not.

In fact, the whole Wrex/Tali/Garrus thing proves that Bioware is perfectly willingly to do precisely that.

[crimzontearz]

KainrycKarr wrote...

What part of my quote is naive. They said some will be permanent, some will not.

In fact, the whole Wrex/Tali/Garrus thing proves that Bioware is perfectly willingly to do precisely that.

you are falling for a wordplay

"coming back" "the whole range" and "playable to an extent" means that mosdt of the killables will either be cameos or 1 shot missions for a plethora of reasons that have been explained ad nauseum

Bioware, so far, does not seem to have the quad to do it "right"....or........they resort to handwaves like in DA2

which is sad since they make my favorite series of all times

[KainrycKarr]

crimzontearz wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

What part of my quote is naive. They said some will be permanent, some will not.

In fact, the whole Wrex/Tali/Garrus thing proves that Bioware is perfectly willingly to do precisely that.

you are falling for a wordplay

"coming back" "the whole range" and "playable to an extent" means that mosdt of the killables will either be cameos or 1 shot missions for a plethora of reasons that have been explained ad nauseum

Bioware, so far, does not seem to have the quad to do it "right"....or........they resort to handwaves like in DA2

which is sad since they make my favorite series of all times

No, I'm not falling for wordplay. I never said everyone's coming back to full squaddie status. Read my OP.

They are saying some will full squadmates, some will be one or two mission squadrons, and some will be cameos. That's exactly what' s in the article.

And your example of Wrex isn't really applicable, since they never said he'd be a squadmate to any extent.

To the bolded....uh, yeah? How is that different from what I said? I simply think the ones that'll be one-shots or cameos will be the non-LI's.

Modifié par KainrycKarr, 03 mai 2011 - 12:40 .

[crimzontearz]

KainrycKarr wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

What part of my quote is naive. They said some will be permanent, some will not.

In fact, the whole Wrex/Tali/Garrus thing proves that Bioware is perfectly willingly to do precisely that.

you are falling for a wordplay

"coming back" "the whole range" and "playable to an extent" means that most of the killables will either be cameos or 1 shot missions for a plethora of reasons that have been explained ad nauseum

Bioware, so far, does not seem to have the quad to do it "right"....or........they resort to handwaves like in DA2

which is sad since they make my favorite series of all times

No, I'm not falling for wordplay. I never said everyone's coming back to full squaddie status. Read my OP.

They are saying some will full squadmates, some will be one or two mission squadrons, and some will be cameos. That's exactly what' s in the article.

And your example of Wrex isn't really applicable, since they never said he'd be a squadmate to any extent.

To the bolded....uh, yeah? How is that different from what I said? I simply think the ones that'll be one-shots or cameos will be the non-LI's.

because the sentence was referenced to ALL previous squaddies (yes I have the article) including Ash/Kaiden and Liara.THEY will most definitely full squaddies, everyone else, well..you do not know yet do you? if they were all cameos with like 1 one shot mission they would still have fulfilled this early statement

[WizenSlinky0]

Since when did "doing it right" turn out to mean the same as "give every player what they want regardless of time, budget, or story constraints".

[KainrycKarr]

crimzontearz wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

What part of my quote is naive. They said some will be permanent, some will not.

In fact, the whole Wrex/Tali/Garrus thing proves that Bioware is perfectly willingly to do precisely that.

you are falling for a wordplay

"coming back" "the whole range" and "playable to an extent" means that most of the killables will either be cameos or 1 shot missions for a plethora of reasons that have been explained ad nauseum

Bioware, so far, does not seem to have the quad to do it "right"....or........they resort to handwaves like in DA2

which is sad since they make my favorite series of all times

No, I'm not falling for wordplay. I never said everyone's coming back to full squaddie status. Read my OP.

They are saying some will full squadmates, some will be one or two mission squadrons, and some will be cameos. That's exactly what' s in the article.

And your example of Wrex isn't really applicable, since they never said he'd be a squadmate to any extent.

To the bolded....uh, yeah? How is that different from what I said? I simply think the ones that'll be one-shots or cameos will be the non-LI's.

because the sentence was referenced to ALL previous squaddies (yes I have the article) including Ash/Kaiden and Liara.THEY will most definitely full squaddies, everyone else, well..you do not know yet do you? if they were all cameos with like 1 one shot mission they would still have fulfilled this early statement

Yes, you're right. They would.

And?

I simply think the LI's are going to return as full-squaddies. No sh*t sherlock I don't "know for certain".

The "you can bet your ass" bit is obviously an exagerration.

Doom! Gloom! Bioware is lazy! The worst possible scenario is surely the most likely one!

[crimzontearz]

no, I just work for a large corporation myself, I know what to expect given a PR line.....and like garrus says "there is always the small chance I will be pleasantly surprised".

[KainrycKarr]

crimzontearz wrote...

no, I just work for a large corporation myself, I know what to expect given a PR line.....and like garrus says "there is always the small chance I will be pleasantly surprised".

Working for a large coporation, I'd think you'd also be aware that not every quote is a "PR line". Many, yes, but not all.

[aimlessgun]

Babe Mause wrote...

aimlessgun wrote...

The thing about Wrex is that what he's doing makes sense for the story, and it feels right. It feels like the best option from a story perspective if you take out player desire from the equation. Doesn't that count for something?

There are plenty of legitimate and good reasons for certain squadmates to leave after ME2. Will people be angry at Bioware for writing the story that made the most sense?

Wrex situation makes perfect sense for the story, no complaints here at all. But the fact that you can have only ONE non-quest related dialog with him is as far from satisfactory as it can be. I don't understand why Shep can't share awesome story of the epic battle with Collectors (Wrex would appreciate that, I'm sure), or why you can't walk around the camp with Wrex, so he could comment on different things, etc? Even some NPCs got more dialogs and action than former member of your crew!

If the cameos were done right in ME2, I won't be worrying about cameos in ME3. But I'm afraid that if some character is turned cameo in ME3, all I ever get from him/her is 'Hi, glad to see you are well, now go stop the Reapers' and they will never even say 'good job, thank you' when you're done.

If it was confirmed that all characters will have the same amount of dialog no matter if they are on the squad or not, then fine, I would be calm. But right now I'm afraid that characters will be handled the same way it was in ME2, when you have decent amount of dialog only with people on your ship, and thus I want my favourite characters on the ship.

Fair enough. If you accept that a well written and integrated non-squadmate role is ok if they have enough dialogue/stuff to do, then I think you should reserve judgement until we know more.

For example the "Wrex treatment": very difficult to give him meaningful impact in ME2 because going from a ME1 choice to ME2 choices to ME3 choices is TONS of branching and is just overwhelming.

But now, when there is no tertiary branching for an ME4 to worry about, they have less restrictions.

So basically, from Bioware's perspective, 'cameos' in ME2 are a totally different workload than cameos in ME3, and I don't think what happened in ME2 is necessarily any indication of ME3.

Modifié par aimlessgun, 03 mai 2011 - 12:52 .

[SmokePants]

I hate the, "What was the pont?" argument. Even if there was no ME3, everything in ME2 would still have a point, just like every other game that doesn't do the ME gimmick and is a self-contained adventures has a point to playing it.

Completely dismissing the value of what you're doing in the moment and hanging its worth completely on some future payoff is a terrible and pathetic way to go about your business. It hurts no one but yourself.

Modifié par SmokePants, 03 mai 2011 - 12:58 .

[crimzontearz]

KainrycKarr wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

no, I just work for a large corporation myself, I know what to expect given a PR line.....and like garrus says "there is always the small chance I will be pleasantly surprised".

Working for a large coporation, I'd think you'd also be aware that not every quote is a "PR line". Many, yes, but not all.

indeed, but  it cycles back  to the previous point,  I'd rather expect the worse, besides, as I said, the ONE feature I wanted in the game was already confirmed, everything else is fluff as long as Bioware keeps up the storytelling

[crimzontearz]

SmokePants wrote...

I hate the, "What was the pont?" argument. Even if there was no ME3, everything in ME2 would still have a point, just like every other game that doesn't do the ME gimmick and is a self-contained adventures has a point to playing it.

Completely dismissing the value of what you're doing in the moment and hanging its worth completely on some future payoff is a terrible and pathetic way to go about your business. It hurts no one but yourself.

\\


but the "ME gimmik" was the CORE SELLING POINT of the game dude

that's like saying "well it's ok if Dead Space 2 is not scary, after all a LOT of other games are not scary either"

[Pani Mauser]

alperez wrote...

Thirdly there has to be some trimming of the squad just to make room for the characters that may return (liara, vs etc) and new characters (james sanders) otherwise we could potentialy have a squad of 15 or more for me3.

And why not trim out Liara or VS in this case? Or just let people choose who to take on the ship with them if they can't make bigger team? 

Pwener2313 wrote...

People hating on something they know nothing about.

It was stated in numerous interviews that some characters will return only as cameos. That is reason enough.

[KainrycKarr]

Babe Mause wrote...

alperez wrote...

Thirdly there has to be some trimming of the squad just to make room for the characters that may return (liara, vs etc) and new characters (james sanders) otherwise we could potentialy have a squad of 15 or more for me3.

And why not trim out Liara or VS in this case? Or just let people choose who to take on the ship with them if they can't make bigger team? 

Pwener2313 wrote...

People hating on something they know nothing about.

It was stated in numerous interviews that some characters will return only as cameos. That is reason enough.

Because, the bottom line is that Bioware HAS to have a couple of controls in the overall story-arch, otherwise it's just plain unwriteable, from a production standpoint. They need to have certain "hardpoints" in the storyline that they can use as buoys if you will, to keep the story going down the basic path that BW wants it to.

[Pani Mauser]

aimlessgun wrote...

Fair enough. If you accept that a well written and integrated non-squadmate role is ok if they have enough dialogue/stuff to do, then I think you should reserve judgement until we know more. 

I'm not making judgements right now, I'm just voicing my concern about certain things. They've already released tons of info about the game, but never adressed things I'm interested in the most. I don't know why reveal of Liara, VS and Garrus is not a spoiler and it is widely promoted, with pictures etc, but the rest of the squad is in shadows. I don't know why they talk about Virmiresque types of situations between races, but can't say anything about conversation options.

If they just said instead "The trick is giving gamers a satisfying payoff to the relationship they've built while managing the roles that each characters can play, from cameo to major player" something like "we can't put all existing characters on your squad for technical reasons, but do not worry, it won't hinder conversation and interaction options with them", there would be a lot less negativity about squad situation.

aimlessgun wrote...

For example the "Wrex treatment": very difficult to give him meaningful impact in ME2 because going from a ME1 choice to ME2 choices to ME3 choices is TONS of branching and is just overwhelming.

I don't think so. What would radically change if Shepard and  Wrex could share a drink remembering  old days, if Shep talked to Wrex about defeating Collectors, if Wrex showed Shep his camp, told more stories from the past or even sung some traditional krogan battlesong? Those things have no impact on bigger story, but are priceless for the player.

aimlessgun wrote...


So basically, from Bioware's perspective, 'cameos' in ME2 are a totally different workload than cameos in ME3, and I don't think what happened in ME2 is necessarily any indication of ME3.

If you had "Bioware" sign under your name, I'd be relieved, but unfortunately right now your guess is as good as mine, unless you are BW worker in disguise 

Modifié par Babe Mause, 03 mai 2011 - 02:10 .

[Pani Mauser]

KainrycKarr wrote...


Because, the bottom line is that Bioware HAS to have a couple of controls in the overall story-arch, otherwise it's just plain unwriteable, from a production standpoint. They need to have certain "hardpoints" in the storyline that they can use as buoys if you will, to keep the story going down the basic path that BW wants it to.

I don't mind presence of VS and Liara in the game as a whole. Yes, BW had made pretty clear that overall story is about Shepard, Liara and one Alliance soldier of their choice. But why can't they treat story-important characters like Anderson, Udina, Hackett etc only with option to get those characters on your ship?

For example, Liara in ME1. She was very important for the plot, but you never needed to have her on the mission. She performed her story-important part only aboard the ship anyways. If you wanted, you could never take her off the ship and nothing would change in game.

So I would love to see similar handling in ME3. If you want Liara on the ship, you welcome her aboard and if not, she is staying on her base and you visit her when you need storywise. The same is about VS. If you want them on the team, you get them. If not, they get their own ship and contact/visit you when needed. 

[alperez]

[quote]Babe Mause wrote...

[quote]alperez wrote...

Thirdly there has to be some trimming of the squad just to make room for the characters that may return (liara, vs etc) and new characters (james sanders) otherwise we could potentialy have a squad of 15 or more for me3.
[/quote]



And why not trim out Liara or VS in this case? Or just let people choose who to take on the ship with them if they can't make bigger team? 


[quote]

They kept Liara and the Vs, alive so that no matter how you played the game these characters would be free to return in me3 and continue a story arc, something they were unable/reluctant to do with the me2 characters. So after doing that it makes absolutely no sense for them then to trim out these characters or allow others to choose not to have them in the squad. Its a storytelling device that they obviously felt they neeeded so they safeguarded it from the results of the suicide mission.

The funny part of it is that you could argue that Tali and legion are story sensitive characters and are not protected at all which suggests that they aren't really that important overall to the plotline we'll be facing or that bioware are going to kick anyone who didn't do what they wanted us to do with those 2 characters in the ass in me3.

[lovgreno]

To OP: There is still a long time left untill ME3 is here and since I belive that BioWare understands how popular returning squadmates would be I'm sure they will try their best to include as many of them as possible.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Babe Mause wrote...

It was stated in numerous interviews that some characters will return only as cameos. That is reason enough.

I've read and watched all the interviews other than a couple of the magazine ones, and I haven't heard them specify that some squadmates will be just brief cameos. I've heard them say "not permanent squadmates" but I think there's a major difference between "major NPC" "Temporary Squadmate" and "cameo."

For instance, a lot of people have postulated that Mordin will be on your ship as a tech officer and someone you can talk to, like Joker or Chakwas, but not actually playable on missions. This would be a lot bigger than a cameo, unless you consider Joker a "cameo" character.

My theory is that all or nearly all surviving squadmates (with the likely exception of Kasumi and Zaeed, /sigh) will either be major NPCs (somewhere between Joker and Chakwas in relative importance) or temporary squadmates for one mission (Like Liara in LotSB, but possibly with slightly shorter missions.) Some will be permanent squadmates.

I've based this theory on the same interviews and articles as you have, presumably. I'm just not interpreting the worst possible scenario, given the evidence we have access to. And yes I will be very sad if Kasumi is reduced to just a cameo, but as a DLC character I'm at peace with that. Other than the DLC peeps, though, I think everyone else has a pretty high chance of being significant in one of the ways I outlined above.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 03 mai 2011 - 04:33 .