85 réponses à ce sujet

[antique_nova]

Saphra Deden wrote...

antique_nova wrote...

By fleshed out, you mean Virgil made a logical assumption.

I mean that we were given enough information to figure out for ourselves what happened. I mean that the Prothean's role in the narrative is over and done with. I mean that forcing them into the main plot again is stupid and unnecessary.

No one has expressed any desire to force the the Protheans into the main plot again. They could already be in it as they were in ME1&2

[Sinapus]

antique_nova wrote...

"The
station's recycling systems are located in the Foundations. These
manufacture a variety of artificial organic pastes that can be eaten for
sustenance. They are free and nutritious but nearly tasteless and of
unpleasant texture."

Wait a minute, a food stuff that anyone in the galaxy can eat? A food that humans AND Quarians can eat without serious harm?

A variety of artificial organic pastes. So, likely different pastes for different biochemistries.

[Clonedzero]

my guess is that they died and the keepers threw their bodies in those protein vats they mention from time to time that the keepers have.

[inversevideo]

Well, the Citadel has protein vats, maintained by the Keepers (according to Bailey, when he spoke about 'duct rats' to Shepard). And the grounds keeper mentioned that the Citadel has its own water supply, presumably also maintained by the Keepers.

We know that every 50,000 years there is a 'reaping', after which the Citadel is 'reset' to welcome visitors; with air, food, water, and Keepers to work it all for the new kids on the block.

It is also reasonable to assume that there is always power on the Citadel, and the Protheans, realizing, after the attack, that the Citadel is a trap, would also realize that the Citadel could sustain them, once the Reapers were gone.  There would be no reason not to send a few of those sleep chambers through the Conduit. And maybe prepare a welcome for their destroyers, some payback.

The Shadow Broker thought there was more to be discovered, concerning the Protheans.

So, perhaps their story is not yet done...

Modifié par inversevideo, 03 mai 2011 - 04:52 .

[Xeranx]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Rivercurse wrote...

I'd like to think that a bunch of scientists advanced enough to reverse engineer Reaper mass relay technology would be resourceful enough to find food and water on the citadel. The Keepers are programmed to integrate any newcomers to the station right? Regardless of the cycle status.

And survive time probably worth several millenia with a genepool of about a dozen people or so? I don't think so.

Why not?

[InvincibleHero]

They are part of the keepers now now and forever. Into the vats they went.

[Seboist]

I believe we still haven't heard the last of the Protheans. Apart from the fate of those scientists there's the end of LOTSB where Liara says the Shadow Broker was researching into the Protheans implying there's still more to them that we haven't learned.

[Sajuro]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

I'd always taken what Vigil said as truth, since it seemed to me that Bioware used his his story as exhibition rather than insinuation.

Vigil does say that some things it can only speculate on.  The fate of the scientists was one of those things.

Who knows though, maybe they found food/water/heat and just lived out the rest of their lives in the citadel telling stories.

Or committed suicide. That's a pretty bleak existence, after all.

Or maybe they had hedonistic orgies across the entire Citadel until they stumbled into the Praesidium lake in a drunken stupor and drowned.

or maybe they played a roleplaying game known as C&R (Citadels and Reapers) for the rest of their days.

[didymos1120]

inversevideo wrote...
  There would be no reason not to send a few of those sleep chambers through the Conduit. And maybe prepare a welcome for their destroyers, some payback.

The Conduit only worked in the Ilos----->Citadel direction.  The relay on the Citadel was "receive only".  There was no going back through to grab more people.

[antique_nova]

Seboist wrote...

I believe we still haven't heard the last of the Protheans. Apart from the fate of those scientists there's the end of LOTSB where Liara says the Shadow Broker was researching into the Protheans implying there's still more to them that we haven't learned.

She also said that the SB was most likely grabbing at anything he could find, as that was one of the first things that she looked for - he was just hoping to find something that the Protheans could have made to escape the Reaper threat if they ever did.

[Zulu_DFA]

There were no "12 scientists". Vigil was a lying bastard.

[darthbuert]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

There were no "12 scientists". Vigil was a lying bastard.

I can't remember specifics, but Vigil did make reference to some of the Protheans being indoctrinated during the major "culling" back them. Perhaps some of the indoctrinated Protheans coded that phrase in Vigil's memory as a means to "fool" whoever activated him in the future to believe something ultimately false...thusly ensuring victory for the Reapers.

[Dean_the_Young]

Sajuro wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

I'd always taken what Vigil said as truth, since it seemed to me that Bioware used his his story as exhibition rather than insinuation.

Vigil does say that some things it can only speculate on.  The fate of the scientists was one of those things.

Who knows though, maybe they found food/water/heat and just lived out the rest of their lives in the citadel telling stories.

Or committed suicide. That's a pretty bleak existence, after all.

Or maybe they had hedonistic orgies across the entire Citadel until they stumbled into the Praesidium lake in a drunken stupor and drowned.

or maybe they played a roleplaying game known as C&R (Citadels and Reapers) for the rest of their days.

"I rolled a 20."
"The Reapers come and destroy everyone."
"Mother-****er! Every time, Jim! You do this every time!"

[antique_nova]

darthbuert wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

There were no "12 scientists". Vigil was a lying bastard.

I can't remember specifics, but Vigil did make reference to some of the Protheans being indoctrinated during the major "culling" back them. Perhaps some of the indoctrinated Protheans coded that phrase in Vigil's memory as a means to "fool" whoever activated him in the future to believe something ultimately false...thusly ensuring victory for the Reapers.

Not possible as Virgil can identify indoctrination. Alos, Ilos was never touched during the Prothean culling, so it is not possible that the Protheans there were indoctrinated.

Modifié par antique_nova, 04 mai 2011 - 10:21 .

[Mr. Sniper Rifle]

Xeranx wrote...
Why not?

Short Term: trying to rebuild society with a tiny gene pool would take up time they didn't have. They realized they were the best and last minds of their civilization. It was either find a way to stop the Reaper using every ounce of knowledge and time they had or try to recreate the entirety of Prothean civilization with extremely limited supplies, with the burgoning uncertainty of whether or not the following generations, all tiny, would be able to finish their work.

Long Term: The short and sweet answer both a) they didn't have the resources and to put it circumscemptly, it would lead to the Prothean eqivalent of "albino twins with twelve toes".

[Xeranx]

Mr. Sniper Rifle wrote...

Xeranx wrote...
Why not?

Short Term: trying to rebuild society with a tiny gene pool would take up time they didn't have. They realized they were the best and last minds of their civilization. It was either find a way to stop the Reaper using every ounce of knowledge and time they had or try to recreate the entirety of Prothean civilization with extremely limited supplies, with the burgoning uncertainty of whether or not the following generations, all tiny, would be able to finish their work.

Long Term: The short and sweet answer both a) they didn't have the resources and to put it circumscemptly, it would lead to the Prothean eqivalent of "albino twins with twelve toes".

You're saying the most advanced species that's known about up until this point, who perfected cryogenics, couldn't devise a way to increase their numbers and see to it that they could work on stopping the reapers?  Keep in mind that Ashley's eyesight was corrected before she was born and also that humanity as it exists in ME is still relatively young as a species.  Then there's the knowledge that this wasn't the first mass culling.  If they know it takes 50k years imagine what they could accomlish within that time.

After a quick search I discovered worldhistorysite.com/population.html which says that in 10000 BC the human population was 4 million.  In 1999 it says the population is 6 billion.  If my math is correct that's a 150% increase (maybe) in 12k years.  If the Prothean cycle is even half of what humans are they would have a "viable" population way before the reapers make it for the next culling.  By that time they could also weed out undesirable traits to avoid problems with the gene pool.

The reason I bring this up is that I dislike what was done to the Protheans.  I want very much to see a race thought to be erased from the galaxy show that they didn't give up and persevered.  Maybe that's a human thing as it's evident in many of our movies that the hero will overcome insurmountable odds to succeed.  Hell it's right here in Mass Effect with Shepard taking a small band to the greatest threat anyone has ever known and it'll happen again in ME3. 

Mass Effect is Shepard's story, but when you look at it the real heroes are the Protheans.  He/she is a hero by proxy.  If not for the Protheans, Shepard wouldn't have achieved anything.  Liara would be combing dig sites when the Reapers would have come and razed the galaxy of whatever they wanted before leaving to wait for another cycle.

Bioware avoided a good story because it was uncomfortable and that's a real shame.  One can only guess what the reaction, after horror, one would have at the idea that a species devastated beyond belief did their best to make sure they didn't die.

Modifié par Xeranx, 04 mai 2011 - 11:31 .

[Dean_the_Young]

You assume the Protheans were directly analogous to Humans.

More importantly, you presume that the Prothean survivors constituted a viable breeding population... which any number of biological trends and tendencies could have stopped. (Age-based sterility that can not be countered via the resources at hand, all the survivors are all male/all female, genetic trends that would doom any breeding population, etc.).

We aren't talking about even hundreds of survivors here, let alone 4 million.

[antique_nova]

Bioware haven't finished Shepard's story, so how can you state that Bioware have ignored them? As you stated, there were 4 million humans at whatever year it was.The were barely a dozen Protheans. Also, the scientists were probably far too old to conceive, also i doubt that they had the knowledge or database information to help produce and educate the next generation - they probably lacked the profession etc. They were scientists, not teachers or what ever else. They lost a lot people from other professions due to power shortage on Ilos and the Reaper's 'Culling' of their race.

But my point still stands, Bioware haven't finished what they're doing.

[Malanek]

I think it is fair to say that a species that advanced would understand genetics enough to be able to reproduce via non-natural means. They would have to be wary about not drawing the attention of Sovereign though, who remained to monitor the situation. However it is long past the time when they could have the biggest impact in re-announcing themselves to the galaxy. If they were still around we should have known about it by now.

[Dean_the_Young]

Sure... if they had the non-natural means available. But nothing says or promises they would.

Plus, yeah, Sovereign.

[GreenDragon37]

They probably starved or ended up dehydrated.

[TomY90]

i thought they answered what happened to the prothean scientists already (sort of they left you to fill in the blanks)

They said they got trapped in their with no food or water with no way to get back.

and considering in ME2 they do say often that people die whether in the air ducks or in general sometimes keepers put them in the protein vats before they can be found etc. (news reports on the citadel mention it and so does the c-sec officer bailey i think mentions it on the thane loyalty mission when talking about mouse)

which likely explains why no bodies were found of the protheans because its likely when they died the bodies were put in the vats and removed any evidence of them being their (apart from the conduit).

Modifié par TomY90, 04 mai 2011 - 11:57 .

[Mr. Sniper Rifle]

Xeranx wrote...
You're saying the most advanced species that's known about up until this point, who perfected cryogenics, couldn't devise a way to increase their numbers and see to it that they could work on stopping the reapers?  Keep in mind that Ashley's eyesight was corrected before she was born and also that humanity as it exists in ME is still relatively young as a species.  Then there's the knowledge that this wasn't the first mass culling.  If they know it takes 50k years imagine what they could accomlish within that time.

 You have to understand the situation: we have no idea what those scientists specialized in. In all likelihood they were physicists and engineers; intelligent and clever enough to deduce the construction of a small mass relay capable of traversing near the breadth of the entirety of the galaxy, and then modifying the Keepers not to respond to the Reapers, by foccussing their attention on the problem for decades. That achievement, in and of itself is nothing short of amazing. 

 The problem was they could either try and save the galaxy and all the future races to come, or try and save their pretty much extinct race. There were maybe twelve, more or less. We don't now how the Prothean's reproduced and we probably will never know (that level of detail would worry me). It took decades to figure out to change the Keepers, and even then, they weren't sure it was going to work. As has been said, it required all their focus and time to find a workable solution. they simply didn't have the ability or time to try and rebuild their entire civilization; more, we don't know how old they werew, or how many males or females were among the team.

Xeranx wrote...
After a quick search I discovered worldhistorysite.com/population.html which says that in 10000 BC the human population was 4 million.  In 1999 it says the population is 6 billion.  If my math is correct that's a 150% increase (maybe) in 12k years.  If the Prothean cycle is even half of what humans are they would have a "viable" population way before the reapers make it for the next culling.  By that time they could also weed out undesirable traits to avoid problems with the gene pool.

You have to remember that A) the Conduit was a one way trip, and they couldn't drag along along  every concievable piece of technology. and that the Citadel had been scoured of any remaining Prothean technology, and left it an empty of anything necessary for long term survival. No water, the protein vats aren't even active and there's no arable land. All that water and dirt was imported later by the Council races. There wasn't anything there to support a viable population, even if the Prothean scientists wanted to try.

Xeranx wrote...
The reason I bring this up is that I dislike what was done to the Protheans.  I want very much to see a race thought to be erased from the galaxy show that they didn't give up and persevered.  Maybe that's a human thing as it's evident in many of our movies that the hero will overcome insurmountable odds to succeed.  Hell it's right here in Mass Effect with Shepard taking a small band to the greatest threat anyone has ever known and it'll happen again in ME3. 

As Vigil says, the Reapers are very thorough. They don't get bored and play Angry Birds when they're eliminating entire species;they make sure that every Mass Relay is sealed, tthat every occupied world is investigated and the indoctrinated are used as blood hounds to sniff out any remnants. They divide entire galactic empires apart a system at a time, and with the relays under Reaper control, they can't reinforce worlds under attack. It's not an issue of perserverance, its being ground down by a slow moving giant fleet that knows your every secret.  No race has had the chance the current species do.

Xeranx wrote...
Mass Effect is Shepard's story, but when you look at it the real heroes are the Protheans.  He/she is a hero by proxy.  If not for the Protheans, Shepard wouldn't have achieved anything.  Liara would be combing dig sites when the Reapers would have come and razed the galaxy of whatever they wanted before leaving to wait for another cycle.

Bioware avoided a good story because it was uncomfortable and that's a real shame.  One can only guess what the reaction, after horror, one would have at the idea that a species devastated beyond belief did their best to make sure they didn't die.

First, I'm not sure what Bioware 'avoided'. The Protheans are much more interesting the less we know about them.

I agree what Shepard wouldn't have been able to achieve what he had without the Protheans. However, I'll also point out that Protheans, instead of trying to save their own civilization, made the greater sacrifice and saved every species after them, actually fulfilling the second part of your last paragraph by leaving behind a chance for the Reapers to finally be stopped.

Modifié par Mr. Sniper Rifle, 05 mai 2011 - 12:14 .