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Will we ever learn of what actually happened to the Prothean scientists


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#76
Xeranx

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Dean_the_Young wrote...

You assume the Protheans were directly analogous to Humans.

More importantly, you presume that the Prothean survivors constituted a viable breeding population... which any number of biological trends and tendencies could have stopped. (Age-based sterility that can not be countered via the resources at hand, all the survivors are all male/all female, genetic trends that would doom any breeding population, etc.).

We aren't talking about even hundreds of survivors here, let alone 4 million.


Presuming that there's a viable breeding population is wrong and presuming there isn't is correct?  Why?  Biological factors may be present, but you're talking about a group of people who had achieved a great deal to see humanity before they (humanity) even learned algebra.  Why would they be unable to do what we deem impossible?  And we still don't know what their life-cycle is like.  They may breed faster and live longer for all we know.  There's no evidence for or against.  My point was that it should have been addressed if it wasn't going to be done.  Saying there wasn't a viable population for breeding isn't a substantial answer for me especially since we know the Protheans made it to the Citadel.

Also, I don't remember where it was mentioned, but it was mentioned that Prothean DNA is similar to Human DNA.

antique_nova wrote...

Bioware haven't finished Shepard's story, so how can you state that Bioware have ignored them? As you stated, there were 4 million humans at whatever year it was.The were barely a dozen Protheans. Also, the scientists were probably far too old to conceive, also i doubt that they had the knowledge or database information to help produce and educate the next generation - they probably lacked the profession etc. They were scientists, not teachers or what ever else. They lost a lot people from other professions due to power shortage on Ilos and the Reaper's 'Culling' of their race.

But my point still stands, Bioware haven't finished what they're doing.


I said Bioware ignored a perfectly good story of overcoming insurmountable odds in order to survive as is prevalent in many stories involving a hero much like Shepard is depicted in Mass Effect. 

Before I start, this isn't a slight in any way, shape, or form (nor is it meant to be): I believe many, such as yourself, look at the possibility of age being a deterrent to breeding because it's safe.  It allows us to avoid the uncomfortable "thing" that's in the room and move on to something more palatable.  

Look at the guy who cut his own leg off in order to survive.  Why was his story interesting?  He cut his own leg off to survive a life-threatening event.  A number of years ago there was a guy who was trapped under the World Trade Center after it was bombed (I think) with his wife and daughter.  He encouraged them to drink their own urine.  They refused and he was the only one to survive as a result.  It was reported on the news around that time and I was a child and even I considered it gross, but it's interesting because he did it to survive.  He had no source of water and took it from himself in order to continue living his life.  He didn't give up.  That's a remarkable feat to accomplish and something that is unthinkable but necessary is defintely what I would have expected from a species at the brink of death.

You're right that their story isn't finished yet, but everything I've read so far leads me to think that there's nothing left to tell.  I feel as though the Protheans were undermined.

#77
Mr. Sniper Rifle

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Xeranx wrote...

Presuming that there's a viable breeding population is wrong and presuming there isn't is correct?  Why?  Biological factors may be present, but you're talking about a group of people who had achieved a great deal to see humanity before they (humanity) even learned algebra.  Why would they be unable to do what we deem impossible?  And we still don't know what their life-cycle is like.  They may breed faster and live longer for all we know.  There's no evidence for or against.  My point was that it should have been addressed if it wasn't going to be done.  Saying there wasn't a viable population for breeding isn't a substantial answer for me especially since we know the Protheans made it to the Citadel.

Also, I don't remember where it was mentioned, but it was mentioned that Prothean DNA is similar to Human DNA.

It's not entirely a matter of Prothean biology. Vigil makes a point of saying there was little to no food or water on the Citadel after the Reaper scouring. There wasn't enough to supporrt a viable population. It doesn't matter how long they lived or fast they reproduced (further those two are for the most part, mutually exxclusive), when you have no water or food over the long term. Whatver supplies they had would have taken with them would have eventuallty run out.

I'll also point out that the Prothean scientists probably didn't have a categorical knowledge of all the relevant knowledge to rebuild their civilization.

And EDI says that the Protheans have a quad strand DNA structure(when you investigate the 'disabled' Collector vessel).

Xeranx wrote...

I said Bioware ignored a perfectly good story of overcoming insurmountable odds in order to survive as is prevalent in many stories involving a hero much like Shepard is depicted in Mass Effect. 

Before I start, this isn't a slight in any way, shape, or form (nor is it meant to be): I believe many, such as yourself, look at the possibility of age being a deterrent to breeding because it's safe.  It allows us to avoid the uncomfortable "thing" that's in the room and move on to something more palatable.  

Look at the guy who cut his own leg off in order to survive.  Why was his story interesting?  He cut his own leg off to survive a life-threatening event.  A number of years ago there was a guy who was trapped under the World Trade Center after it was bombed (I think) with his wife and daughter.  He encouraged them to drink their own urine.  They refused and he was the only one to survive as a result.  It was reported on the news around that time and I was a child and even I considered it gross, but it's interesting because he did it to survive.  He had no source of water and took it from himself in order to continue living his life.  He didn't give up.  That's a remarkable feat to accomplish and something that is unthinkable but necessary is defintely what I would have expected from a species at the brink of death.

You're right that their story isn't finished yet, but everything I've read so far leads me to think that there's nothing left to tell.  I feel as though the Protheans were undermined.

We're not skipping around the "uncomfortable" issue. Age is a factor; it really is. Most ,if not all animals, including humanity reach an age where reproduction is no longer viable or possible as an option. The Protheans scientists as Vigil poiunted out, worked for decades to peerfect a method to alter the Keepers.

As I said, the Protheans chose to save everyone coming after them by sacrificing themselves on the Citadel, not by trying to keep their species alive. It's a more lasting contribution; and now there part of the story is over and its up to the Commander to finish the job.

#78
Dean_the_Young

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Xeranx wrote...


Presuming that there's a viable breeding population is wrong and presuming there isn't is correct?  Why?

Because the game already answered the question when it said there wasn't.

 Biological factors may be present, but you're talking about a group of people who had achieved a great deal to see humanity before they (humanity) even learned algebra.  Why would they be unable to do what we deem impossible?

Reaper genocide, devastation of facilities durring the facility shut-down, lack of resources, lack of relevant materials and expertise, concerns about Sovereign...

And we still don't know what their life-cycle is like.  They may breed faster and live longer for all we know.  There's no evidence for or against.  My point was that it should have been addressed if it wasn't going to be done.  Saying there wasn't a viable population for breeding isn't a substantial answer for me especially since we know the Protheans made it to the Citadel.

If a Prothean VI telling you that the Prothean experts who survived viewed their own race as doomed doesn't count as evidence or being addressed, what does?

Also, I don't remember where it was mentioned, but it was mentioned that Prothean DNA is similar to Human DNA.

You're mis-remembering the Collector Ship. The Collectors were running genetic comparison tests between themselves and humans, but no similarity was implied while a significant difference (quad-strand DNA) was cited.

#79
VioletSparks

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I'm pretty sure they should be dead.. no food, trapped on a space station. I saw this as one of the finer moments of Mass Effect's narrative, I would seriously question Bioware's mental health if they tried to bring them back in. it's possible they discovered more about the reapers before they died though..

#80
Xeranx

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Well I guess I was done before I started. I still feel the way I do about what they did to the Protheans, but I won't bring up or broach this topic again. Sorry I brought it up.

#81
Malanek

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Mr. Sniper Rifle wrote...
 You have to understand the situation: we have no idea what those scientists specialized in. In all likelihood they were physicists and engineers; intelligent and clever enough to deduce the construction of a small mass relay capable of traversing near the breadth of the entirety of the galaxy, and then modifying the Keepers not to respond to the Reapers, by foccussing their attention on the problem for decades. That achievement, in and of itself is nothing short of amazing. 


I'm not sure why you think the were physicists and engineers. They went through with the primary purpose of "re-programing" the keepers. They would have been biological and neural experts. A single omni-tool can carry vast expanses of technical information about all manner of subjects. They may not have been able to carry through many resources but they would not be short on data.

Mr. Sniper Rifle wrote...
 The problem was they could either try and save the galaxy and all the future races to come, or try and save their pretty much extinct race.


Their first and primary goal was to modify the keepers without alerting any reapers. That was successful. After that they would have set new goals. This could have been throw themselves in a fire in an attempt to erase any evidence they were ever there. Or it could have been to build a starship and attack through omega-4. Or it could have been to preserve themselves or their species either on or off the citadel. Sure this would be difficult but I don't believe this would be impossible. We know they could alter the keepers behaviour. It isn't beyond the realms of possibility they could instruct the keepers to build a small star ship.

Mr. Sniper Rifle wrote...
and B) that the Citadel had been scoured of any remaining Prothean technology, and left it an empty of anything necessary for long term survival. No water, the protein vats aren't even active and there's no arable land. All that water and dirt was imported later by the Council races. There wasn't anything there to support a viable population, even if the Prothean scientists wanted to try.

Where did you get this from? I'm not saying you're completely wrong because I'm not an expert on this. But I think the fact the keepers survived indicate that life support including protein vats, water and ventilators were almost certainly functioning.

As I have said before, I think the single biggest point in arguing against them still being alive is where the hell are they if they were? After the events in ME1, there would be absolutely no point in keeping themselves concealed assuming their goal was still to stop the reapers and preserve organic life.

#82
antique_nova

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Malanek999 wrote...

I'm not sure why you think the were physicists and engineers. They went through with the primary purpose of "re-programing" the keepers. They would have been biological and neural experts. A single omni-tool can carry vast expanses of technical information about all manner of subjects. They may not have been able to carry through many resources but they would not be short on data.


We aren't extactly sure if the Reapers contacted the Keepers first via miniturised quantum entanglement devices or via the Citadel first and then relay the signal.

I will sift through the past posts later and comment, but right now i am knackered.

#83
DuffyMJ

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Well they could have been the same protheans who observed humanity in the trinket flashback on one of the ME1 planets. That supposedly took place when humanity was in its infancy.

#84
antique_nova

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Xeranx wrote...

Well I guess I was done before I started. I still feel the way I do about what they did to the Protheans, but I won't bring up or broach this topic again. Sorry I brought it up.



You did nothing wrong, you stayed on topic and left an opinion for those to discuss.

However, Vigil within the game knows far more about the Protheans than we do and so do the writers themselves. You're just jumping to conclusions without waiting to acquire any unforceable evidence. Alot of things in ME1 weren't brought into ME2, but are thought to be brought into ME3 - are we going to assume that those stories are also finished? - no, because we still have one more game to solve the mystery.

#85
pipipi

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 There might be lots of Protheans left. Javik and the awakened collectors are proof of it.
AND since it is Mass Effect, i think if Javik would not mind they would be able to clone him.
I know it is weird but with some gene changes they would be actually able to revive the proud and powerfull Prothean nation.
Now THAT would be awesome.:D

#86
pipipi

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VioletSparks wrote...

I'm pretty sure they should be dead.. no food, trapped on a space station. I saw this as one of the finer moments of Mass Effect's narrative, I would seriously question Bioware's mental health if they tried to bring them back in. it's possible they discovered more about the reapers before they died though..


Awakening the collectors would bring up a lots of answers....I feel so bad for what reapers actually did to the Protheans :(
I destroyed those jävlar anyway :)