283 réponses à ce sujet

[elearon1]

T764 wrote...

More romance with longer more detailed conversations, Yes. More sex scenes or more detailed sex scenes, No. Thats what my eroge games are for.

Actually, I think Eroge beats most western games in both instances there - better romantic writing and buildup, and more detailed sex scenes. (though most eroge sex scenes are indistinguishable from one another, they certainly fallow a specific formula)

In fact, if we could get a - good - marriage between the two game styles, western adventure rpg and eastern graphic novels, I'd be in heaven.  

[grey_savant]

I find it ridiculous that in DA2 you'll spend 20+ hours fighting people to a bloody pulp but the love scenes are censored to nothing. Very strange values system indeed.

[elearon1]

grey_savant wrote...

I find it ridiculous that in DA2 you'll spend 20+ hours fighting people to a bloody pulp but the love scenes are censored to nothing. Very strange values system indeed.

Welcome to America, have you seen the wonderful view of our hypocrisy? 

[kglaser]

elearon1 wrote...

grey_savant wrote...

I find it ridiculous that in DA2 you'll spend 20+ hours fighting people to a bloody pulp but the love scenes are censored to nothing. Very strange values system indeed.

Welcome to America, have you seen the wonderful view of our hypocrisy? 

Yeah, seriously.  Sex hangups galore.
But death--hey, here, have some death! in your face!

It'd be funny if it weren't true. <_<

[HyperLimited]

Sex? Hell yes. And for the love of God, no more dry humping! 

[Dangerfoot]

I wish people that relegate all nudity to porn would go away forever. You are supporting the awful and stupid ways that America censors its media.

I'm glad that people support video game companies that are daring enough to show some skin, even if the consumers are doing it for juvenile reasons. It's a hangup that adult human beings shouldn't be having in a modern culture. We live in a country where Batman can punch criminals to a pulp but we protect our children from breasts.

I cannot wait for puritanical beliefs to become a hilarious footnote in our history.

[Dangerfoot]

HyperLimited wrote...

Sex? Hell yes. And for the love of God, no more dry humping! 

Unless it's Sebastion.

Chaste men have fewer options! The order dictates...

[SirGladiator]

TW2's love scenes are amazing, they're exactly what Bioware's love scenes could've been had they not started going in the wrong direction after the awesome ME1 love scene. Everybody loved the ME1 one, but for some reason they basicly decided 'Everybody loved this, let's never do it again', and instead of better and better the Bioware love scenes have mostly gotten worse and worse. If they had gotten better and better instead, as you would've expected, they could've easily been the ones doing these awesome love scenes. They didn't, and TW2 did, so hats off to them for that. Very impressive, extremely tastefully done, very much in the ME1 tradition. Hopefully Bioware will learn from TW2, as TW2 learned from Bioware, and in the future Bioware love scenes will rival TW2's in awesomeness!

[Rockpopple]

@ MonkeyLungs - I'm sorry, but when people use the sex scenes as their primary reason for buying a game - which is what I was referring to, mind - it reminds me of pre-teens or teenagers sneaking into a Rated R movie because they heard there was nudity in it.

Oh yeah, I'm sure those 12 year olds were really interested in the storytelling and the courage of those movie directors. lol.

Human behaviour isn't really that hard to figure out. Again, those who rushed to buy TW2 cuz they saw how hot the sex scenes were: porn is free on the internet. I doubt 12 year olds bother sneaking into R-rated movies now because of the same reason.

Oh, and this really shouldn't need to be said: but there was no dry humping in DA2. But it's not surprising that the same kind of people that claim there was dry humping in DA2 are the same kinds of folks who get all dizzy in the head at the prospect of TW2's sex scenes. Pfffffffft.

And by the way, I'm very pro-porn. So arguments that I or people who make the same arguments as me are "puritans".... don't really hold water. 

Modifié par Rockpopple, 26 mai 2011 - 04:06 .

[Dangerfoot]

Rockpopple wrote...

And by the way, I'm very pro-porn. So arguments that I or people who make the same arguments as me are "puritans".... don't really hold water. 

If you don't relegate any nudity that happens to be in video games or other art mediums to be the same thing as porn, then I don't see a problem with that. A lot of people do.

The whole "there is porn for nudity" argument screams in support of this stance. Nudity is not solely for pornographic purposes.

And you're right, there was no dry humping, it was much less sexualized than that. They put their faces on each other's faces and then laid down on each other and then it faded out. What a compelling love scene.

[Rockpopple]

@ Dangerfoot - I don't know if you know this, but when many people make love, they usually start out clothed. Clothes don't magically come off, and I'm not saying this as a jest to TW2, I mean it literally. That's what happens. People make out, they fall on the bed, and then stuff starts to happen. I'm not in the business of explaining the birds and the bees to forumites, but suffice it to say, there was nothing unrealistic about what DA2 portrayed.

Now do people usually rush to put on their underpants right after having sex then go back to bed and cuddle? Not usually. I'm not a fan of how BioWare did that and I've talked about how they could have used implied nudity for their scenes to make things more realistic, but that's neither here nor there.

And you're using a strawman. I never said "there is porn for nudity". Go back and read what I said. I said "there is porn for people who are so turned on by the sex scenes in TW2 that they rush off to buy the game". It's not about regulating or relegating sex or nudity at all. You're arguing against a strawman you propped up, and I'm not interested.

I stand by my statement. To me, people who are so turned on by a sex scene in a video game that that's their primary reason or inciting reason to buy the product are the same as 12 year olds sneaking into an R-rated movie. They can save that money by looking up sex on the internet, usually in the form of porn.

Once again - I'm totally pro-porn. No problem with it whatsoever. But cartoons don't turn me on. Maybe it does you, and that's totally fine. Different strokes for different folks. Again... no pun intended.

Modifié par Rockpopple, 26 mai 2011 - 04:21 .

[SilentK]

Tyrium wrote...

Does it need more sex - no. The origins scenes were uncomfortable, frankly. I did like the ME scenes, but the Garrus fade to black in ME2 was lovely too. I really very much enjoyed the Anders scene - it was sweet and intimate, but you didn't feel like a voyeur. He kissed her, she moved him to to bed, they lay down and kissed, fade to black. Perfect.

What I would like to see is more romance, though. More of an acknowledgement that they are together. There is a little romance exclusive dialogue, but more dialogue in general would be good.

I agree with you. I much prefer the DA2 scenes to the origins ones.Merrill's scene is as wonderfull and sweet as she is. Fenris wall-kiss is awesome! And I wish I could get a scene like the Anders-kiss with Alistair who was my fav LI in DA:O. More romance-specific dialouge would be very nice but I don't need more skin in order to be happy. For me it's more about emotions.

[Dangerfoot]

Rockpopple wrote...

@ Dangerfoot - I don't know if you know this, but when many people make love, they usually start out clothed. Clothes don't magically come off, and I'm not saying this as a jest to TW2, I mean it literally. That's what happens. People make out, they fall on the bed, and then stuff starts to happen. I'm not in the business of explaining the birds and the bees to forumites, but suffice it to say, there was nothing unrealistic about what DA2 portrayed.

Now do people usually rush to put on their underpants right after having sex then go back to bed and cuddle? Not usually. I'm not a fan of how BioWare did that and I've talked about how they could have used implied nudity for their scenes to make things more realistic, but that's neither here nor there.

And you're using a strawman. I never said "there is porn for nudity". Go back and read what I said. I said "there is porn for people who are so turned on by the sex scenes in TW2 that they rush off to buy the game". It's not about regulating or relegating sex or nudity at all. You're arguing against a strawman you propped up, and I'm not interested.

I stand by my statement. To me, people who are so turned on by a sex scene in a video game that that's their primary reason or inciting reason to buy the product are the same as 12 year olds sneaking into an R-rated movie. They can save that money by looking up sex on the internet, usually in the form of porn.

Once again - I'm totally pro-porn. No problem with it whatsoever. But cartoons don't turn me on. Maybe it does you, and that's totally fine. Different strokes for different folks. Again... no pun intended.

You keep saying you're pro-porn, but this isn't really about porn. I don't want to see "cartoon" nudity in the sense that you seem to imply. I want for people to stop flipping out at the sight of Liara's blue butt and let nudity in art be. It is a part of life, can be used in many contexts, and should be used at the artists disgression. And when you say you're pro-porn in response to me saying that nudity isn't porn, I just get the idea that you don't think nudity has a place in art.

I don't support nudity in art because it turns me on, this isn't about porn, and I don't think that we're all nit-picking and expecting perfect realism as implied in your first paragraph. People just see quality love scenes with nudity (implied or otherwise) and then we see a love scene where everything is implied. And we feel very little from it. Does my character love this person that they just laid on fully clothed? Was that night really special to them or just a fling? I can't tell because now they are fully clothed still and no longer having implied sex.

Good story telling is SHOWN to you, not TOLD. People want to see passion, not be told that those two characters probably did it and now they are like totally in love.

Modifié par Dangerfoot, 26 mai 2011 - 04:38 .

[Rockpopple]

Of course I think nudity has a place in art. I'm an artist, I use nudity in my art and I see it in art I like all the time. What I'm referencing is sex in TW2, and you may see those scenes as "art", but I don't. To each their own.

I also think you're being unfair to Dragon Age 2. Could their scenes have used more implied nudity? Yes, in my opinion, like the Mass Effect 1 scene properly used implied nudity. But your claim that everything was implied is wrong. The romance scene that was the worst in the game was the one between Anders and Hawke, because yes, most everything was implied. But with Fenris, Hawke woke up in bed in her underwear looking for her lover. Sex was most definitely implied. With Merrill, she and Hawke laid in bed together wearing their skivvies. Again, sex was implied. We didn't NEED to see them having sex in order to believe that they did, or that they're really in love.

You can usually tell if the couple is in love by what they do BEFORE and AFTER they have sex, not during. That's.... really juvenile thinking - no offense - and we're gonna have to agree to disagree (ie, you're wrong) cuz I don't feel like belabouring the point any further.

Again, yes, the scenes could have been better done, but so can every scene. But this is wildly off topic. My original point - for the very last time, is that people who rush off to buy the game because of the promise of explicit sex scenes could probably better save their money and look up the internet for porn. That's all.

Modifié par Rockpopple, 26 mai 2011 - 04:47 .

[Dangerfoot]

There's nothing juvenile about thinking that HOW two people have sex is just as important as the conversations they have before and after they have sex. That's the part that SHOWS you how they feel. It's lazy writing to just cut to two people going "Dang that was good, we so love each other now"

EDIT for clarification: I'm not saying that they need to show the entire act or anything, just enough to establish more physical story telling. Is one of them crying? Is it tender? Are they giggling and having a good time? Does one of them have their head some place else? These are ways that we show feelings, not by relying totally on dialogue.

Modifié par Dangerfoot, 26 mai 2011 - 04:54 .

[MonkeyLungs]

Rockpopple wrote...

@ MonkeyLungs - I'm sorry, but when people use the sex scenes as their primary reason for buying a game - which is what I was referring to, mind - it reminds me of pre-teens or teenagers sneaking into a Rated R movie because they heard there was nudity in it.

Oh yeah, I'm sure those 12 year olds were really interested in the storytelling and the courage of those movie directors. lol.

Rockpopple wrote...

I love reading how people rushed to buy the game once they saw videos/images of the sex in TW2.

You know... porn is basically free on the internet, and there are all kinds. Seriously.

That's because it isn't about 'porn' or that kind of gratification. It's the fact that CDProjekt Red actually had the courage to show some skin, something videogames are irrationally afraid to do. Dio you think the people watching Terminator should have 'just went and watched some porn' because there was a 5 min or so love scene with sarah connor and reese?

I didn't buy Red Dead just because it had that sex scene with the mexican revolutionary and 'not laura' but I definitely appreciated that it was there.

[Rockpopple]

@ Dangerfoot - So are you basically saying of all media involving romantic couples - those that didn't explicitly show the two having sex - did not have convincing romances?

Think long before you answer that, because you're basically talking about 90-99% of all media involving romantic couples.

@ MonkeyLungs - I'm sorry, but when people use the sex scenes as their primary reason for buying a game - which is what I was referring to, mind - it reminds me of pre-teens or teenagers sneaking into a Rated R movie because they heard there was nudity in it. 

Oh yeah, I'm sure those 12 year olds were really interested in the storytelling and the courage of those movie directors. lol.

Modifié par Rockpopple, 26 mai 2011 - 04:56 .

[ciaweth]

You don't get to accuse someone of juvenile thinking and then use the word "cuz."

But anyway, in answer to the OP: sure, I'm game for sex. Whatever. It's pixels. Beats staring at gore splashes.

[Zanallen]

Personally, I thought the Miranda scene was really good. Shepard and Miranda start making out, her propped up on a console. Then the two fall against the wall and eventually to the floor, passionately making out. Then Miranda straddles Shepard while slowly unzipping her top to expose her bra. The scene then pans away and fades. It more than implied sex was happening. It was passionate. That's all I needed from the scene.

[MonkeyLungs]

Zanallen wrote...

Personally, I thought the Miranda scene was really good. Shepard and Miranda start making out, her propped up on a console. Then the two fall against the wall and eventually to the floor, passionately making out. Then Miranda straddles Shepard while slowly unzipping her top to expose her bra. The scene then pans away and fades. It more than implied sex was happening. It was passionate. That's all I needed from the scene.

She didn't really need a bra under that very supportive high tech combat/office/space/catsuit she wore though ....

[Dangerfoot]

Rockpopple wrote...

@ Dangerfoot - So are you basically saying of all media involving romantic couples - those that didn't explicitly showing the two having sex - did not have convincing romances?

Think long before you answer that, because you're basically talking about 90-99% of all media involving romantic couples.

First, read my edit, that might clarify what I'm saying a little.

Second, I'm not saying that ROMANCES have to have explicit sex scenes. I'm saying that SEX SCENES need to show more than they tell. If you can show feelings without sex scenes, then go for it. It's totally possible.

[Zanallen]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Personally, I thought the Miranda scene was really good. Shepard and Miranda start making out, her propped up on a console. Then the two fall against the wall and eventually to the floor, passionately making out. Then Miranda straddles Shepard while slowly unzipping her top to expose her bra. The scene then pans away and fades. It more than implied sex was happening. It was passionate. That's all I needed from the scene.

She didn't really need a bra under that very supportive high tech combat/office/space/catsuit she wore though ....

She had a fairly large set. Extra support can't hurt.

[Rockpopple]

@ Dangerfoot - We actually agree, then.

It'll be interesting to see what direction BioWare goes. In ME1, they decided to show more of a sex scene and they used implied nudity. In DA:O, they had a sex scene with no implied nudity and it looked ridiculous. In all their other titles since, they haven't used sex scenes, just preludes to the sex scene and fade-to-blacks, which work well enough to imply what's happening.

I agree, if they're going to do a sex scene, they should make it realistic. That's what people want. They can do this by going explicit or going implicit, either way, it's something they should take seriously.

My apologies for misunderstanding your latest statement. We have more in agreement than disagreement, I believe.

Modifié par Rockpopple, 26 mai 2011 - 05:03 .

[Dangerfoot]

Rockpopple wrote...

@ Dangerfoot - We actually agree, then.

It'll be interesting to see what direction BioWare goes. In ME1, they decided to show more of a sex scene and they used implied nudity. In DA:O, they had a sex scene with no implied nudity and it looked ridiculous. In all their other titles since, they haven't used sex scenes, just preludes to the sex scene and fade-to-blacks, which work well enough to imply what's happening.

I agree, if they're going to do a sex scene, they should make it realistic. That's what people want. They can do this by going explicit or going implicit, either way, it's something they should take seriously.

My apologies for misunderstanding your latest statement. We have more in agreement than disagreement, I believe.

Yeah I quite liked the sex scenes in ME1, the fact that when you wake Liara is clothed had more of an impact, because you had seen her vulnerable and now she was drawing away a little bit.

Dragon Age Origins... was wierd. My character was a dwarf female, so part of that was my fault. But here are two characters in uderwear just kind of rubbing on each other in different posoitions with looks of exstacy on their faces (all the while they are laying half in a tent while the rest of your party seems to have an unobstructed view). It was somehow not enough and way too much all at the same time. Afterward I couldn't take Allistair seriously after he had been with my stocky little warrior.

All good here, and sorry if it seemed like I was on the attack, I get passionate about art censorship.

Modifié par Dangerfoot, 26 mai 2011 - 05:14 .

[In Exile]

elearon1 wrote...
Actually, I think Eroge beats most western games in both instances there - better romantic writing and buildup, and more detailed sex scenes. (though most eroge sex scenes are indistinguishable from one another, they certainly fallow a specific formula)

In fact, if we could get a - good - marriage between the two game styles, western adventure rpg and eastern graphic novels, I'd be in heaven.  

Do I want to google want an Eroge is?