43 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

The rift between the templars and mages exploded at the end of Act III, leading to the Circles breaking free and the templars leaving the Chantry to hunt down the mages. "Not all us desire war." Cassandra makes it clear to Varric that not all the templars desire to go to war with the mages, but it seems that it's the inevitable conclusion to the events that transpired at Kirkwall when the Right of Annulment was invoked. Leliana references that both Hawke and The Warden have disappeared, but what happened in the three years prior to this? Alistair seems to harbor apostates from Meredith regardless of whether the Chantry said no to the emancpation of the Ferelden Circle. Will the mages expect the Commander of the Grey, the de facto Arl of Amaranthine or even the possible Teyrn of Gwaren to participate in the mage struggle for independence?

There doesn't seem to be any middle ground. The Order of Templars on one side, and mages on the other. Given that Varric echoes the idea of war when he says that the Chantry is in pieces and the entire world is on the brink of war, it makes me wonder what implications this could have for The Warden from the Circle, since the Hero was given the responsibility of governing the arling of Amaranthine as the de facto Arl, and it's possible for the ruler to grant the Hero the title and riches of the teyrnir of Gwaren. Would mages flock to either province to seek asylum? Would the mages want the Hero to pick their side? Whether the Hero is the Arl or the Teyrn, he's become more than a mage from the order of the Wardens, but a noble who has lesser nobles swearing fealty to him. Wouldn't the mages seek out the most powerful mage in Thedas?

[Herr Uhl]

The wardens are supposed to be that middle ground. If the mages in the order start to join I'd expect the wardens to fall one way or another.

[Ulicus]

I imagine the Warden disappeared around the time the Mage/Templar conflict was breaking out, honestly. Just because Alistair expects the Hero of Ferelden's return to Denerim doesn't mean they ever arrived. And Leliana doesn't say when the Warden disappeared.

Modifié par Ulicus, 02 mai 2011 - 07:38 .

[IanPolaris]

I think the Wardens will try to stay out for as long as they can, but remember that the Wardens have FREE mages (the only way a mage can be free under Chantry law in fact) and given that the Wardens put such a high premium on magic and given that we've seen already (in both DAO and DAA) that the wardens are able and willing to stare down the Chantry on this issue, I think ultimately when push comes to shove they will side with the mages.....but that is only after they've gone the extra mile to remain neutral.

-Polaris

[ReallyRue]

I doubt the Warden mage would be able to keep out of it if the Chantry launched a Thedas-wide campaign against mages. After all, the Grey Wardens hide apostates and even maleficarum in plain sight. It probably wouldn't take long before they were forced to pick a side.

Not only that, but I imagine other mages would try and drag the Warden into the issue because they are a famous hero with political pull. Especially mages from the Ferelden Circle.

[Suron]

nobody can tell you this.

only concrete answer ANYONE can give you is....the Warden will NOT be dragged into the war if he/she died killing the Archdemon.

any other answer is just a guess..and trite.

[Iosev]

My mage warden is dead, so he won't be taking part in the war; well, unless a mage decides to reanimate his corpse.

[Augustei]

IanPolaris wrote...

I think the Wardens will try to stay out for as long as they can, but remember that the Wardens have FREE mages (the only way a mage can be free under Chantry law in fact) and given that the Wardens put such a high premium on magic and given that we've seen already (in both DAO and DAA) that the wardens are able and willing to stare down the Chantry on this issue, I think ultimately when push comes to shove they will side with the mages.....but that is only after they've gone the extra mile to remain neutral.

-Polaris

The Wardens taking the mages side in the war seems unlikely to me, The First Warden.. The guy that leads the order is the unofficial ruler of pretty the most dedicated Andrastian nation in thedas as the codex depicts them as. Since they say in Amaranthine he is to caught up into politics to really focus his attention anywhere else him siding with the mages could be a political disaster and so he wouldn't do it. Even if pushed to pick a side they will probably just side with whoever the chantry sides with since most within the order are Andrastian as well and the division in the ranks would be more easy to deal with since theres less mages than non mages and most of thedas being andrastian and probably will also side with the chantry.

So the question comes down to will the chantry side with their defiant templars or the rebellious mages?
My guess is Templars until the Qunari reach Antiva... If they attack, which is highly possible

Regarding The hero of ferelden mage warden picking a side.. Seems unlikely since most of them are either dead or on the other side of the eluvian and probably have no idea whats going on and the ones that didn't were called to the Anderfels so its up to the seneschal i'd think..And since Captain Garevel is seneschal of amaranthine now, and hes all order and millitant.. he seems like the type of guy that would pick templars - Until the monarch tells him to back the F*** down.... If its Alistair that is

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 02 mai 2011 - 08:47 .

[IanPolaris]

I think the Wardens will stay out of it until the Qunari invade and reach critical areas (like Antiva). Then I think the First Warden will be told by his own mages, either side with the mages or lose your magical support against the darkspawn.

Given that the Wardens put a high premium on magic, I don't think he'll have much choice but to comply especially if the Hero of Fereldan comes in on the side of the Mages which seems likely.

-Polaris

[Augustei]

IanPolaris wrote...

I think the Wardens will stay out of it until the Qunari invade and reach critical areas (like Antiva). Then I think the First Warden will be told by his own mages, either side with the mages or lose your magical support against the darkspawn.

Given that the Wardens put a high premium on magic, I don't think he'll have much choice but to comply especially if the Hero of Fereldan comes in on the side of the Mages which seems likely.

-Polaris

But then what about if all the non-mage wardens tell the First warden, Dont side with the mages or lose majority of your forces. I think if it comes down to it he will just say "Go off and do w/e you want. Just remember your not acting on behalf of the order cause we aren't taking sides. But if you care so much about the conflict, go fight it... Just dont expect Warden support or resources"

[IanPolaris]

XxDeonxX wrote...

But then what about if all the non-mage wardens tell the First warden, Dont side with the mages or lose majority of your forces. I think if it comes down to it he will just say "Go off and do w/e you want. Just remember your not acting on behalf of the order cause we aren't taking sides. But if you care so much about the conflict, go fight it... Just dont expect Warden support or resources"

You are assuming that all the non-mage wardens would be this unified or even most of them, and I strongly dispute this.  Unlike most martial forces, the Grey Wardens use magic as an integral part of their tactics.  Grey Wardens deal and expect magical support all the time.  They are used to magic and don't fear it.

Given that, at worst I would expect the non-mage wardens to give a collective shrug and frankly I think many will be like Alistair and back the mages.

-Polaris

[Augustei]

IanPolaris wrote...

XxDeonxX wrote...

But then what about if all the non-mage wardens tell the First warden, Dont side with the mages or lose majority of your forces. I think if it comes down to it he will just say "Go off and do w/e you want. Just remember your not acting on behalf of the order cause we aren't taking sides. But if you care so much about the conflict, go fight it... Just dont expect Warden support or resources"

You are assuming that all the non-mage wardens would be this unified or even most of them, and I strongly dispute this.  Unlike most martial forces, the Grey Wardens use magic as an integral part of their tactics.  Grey Wardens deal and expect magical support all the time.  They are used to magic and don't fear it.

Given that, at worst I would expect the non-mage wardens to give a collective shrug and frankly I think many will be like Alistair and back the mages.

-Polaris

Majority of wardens are within the Anderfels and most of the time the wardens of each branch within a country recruit primarily members from within that country, so like 98% of wardens within the anderfels for example, would be Anderfelians... or w/e. The Anderfels are known to be very dedicated and devoted Andrastians and as a result would most likely side with whichever side the chantry chooses. So if the chantry sides with templars and the wardens support the mages than the majority of the wardens would be against the decision made to support mages I would think.

The case will likely be that each commander of the grey will probably pick a side while the first warden continues to insist the maintaining of neutrality. The Anderfelswhere most of the wardens are if they pick a side will almost certainly side with the chantry.

Because of the fact that most wardens would be from the Anderfels and as a result devoted andrastians it is likely that most of them will be unified for the chantry

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 02 mai 2011 - 09:07 .

[IanPolaris]

XxDeonxX,

You are making two leaps of assumptions to come up with a very shaky conclusion. The Grey Wardens have stared down the Chantry before. Just because a person is a devoted Andrastian does NOT mean they like or will ally themselves with the Chantry especially if the Chantry is viewed as corrupt (and the White Divine most certainly is).

More to the point, the Grey Wardens don't fear magic ... and the Chant of Light says nothing about locking away mages let along conducting holy war against them.

I agree the Wardens will remain neutral for as long as they can, but ultimately, the Wardens will value their magic and mages over all else. Remember the Wardens PRE-Date the Chantry.

-Polaris

[LobselVith8]

XxDeonxX wrote...

Regarding The hero of ferelden mage warden picking a side.. Seems unlikely since most of them are either dead or on the other side of the eluvian and probably have no idea whats going on and the ones that didn't were called to the Anderfels so its up to the seneschal i'd think..

I thought that The Warden would still be on the other side of the Eluvian during DA2, but King Alistair mentions that the Hero of Ferelden should be in Denerim in Year Seven, so unless we're mistaken about when Witch Hunt takes place, it seems that the Hero returned with Morrigan and his child. Also, Seneschal Garevel seemed to have made the stupid move of recruiting Roland - a templar - into the order, who acted as a spy for the Chantry, so I don't think we should trust his judgement.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 02 mai 2011 - 09:14 .

[Augustei]

IanPolaris wrote...

XxDeonxX,

You are making two leaps of assumptions to come up with a very shaky conclusion. The Grey Wardens have stared down the Chantry before. Just because a person is a devoted Andrastian does NOT mean they like or will ally themselves with the Chantry especially if the Chantry is viewed as corrupt (and the White Divine most certainly is).

More to the point, the Grey Wardens don't fear magic ... and the Chant of Light says nothing about locking away mages let along conducting holy war against them.

I agree the Wardens will remain neutral for as long as they can, but ultimately, the Wardens will value their magic and mages over all else. Remember the Wardens PRE-Date the Chantry.

-Polaris

I dont really think the grey wardens will condemn the mages and actively seek out siding with the chantry, it would be amusing if the templars demanded the wardens to kill all the mages within their own ranks.. Their stupidity would really shine there.

I agree that the wardens highly value magic and wont want to side against the mages as a result and they wont prosecute them etc.

i believe that they will try to maintain their neutrality for as long as they possibly can.. But if for some reason eventually they are forced to pick a side I just think that if they absolutely had to pick a side then they are more likely to side with the chantry than the mages

what that could mean however only time will tell, the chantry could support the mages especially if the qunari invade. Or the chantry could support the templars and as an exstention of the chantry supporting templars the grey wardens supporting the chantry will support the templars.
I think it will be very unlikely however that the wardens will openly support the templars if the chantry doesn't pick a side.

This all however depends on whether or not the qunari invade, if they dont then the above applies imo.. If they do however then the wardens are more likely to support the mages

[Augustei]

LobselVith8 wrote...

XxDeonxX wrote...

Regarding The hero of ferelden mage warden picking a side.. Seems unlikely since most of them are either dead or on the other side of the eluvian and probably have no idea whats going on and the ones that didn't were called to the Anderfels so its up to the seneschal i'd think..

I thought that The Warden would still be on the other side of the Eluvian during DA2, but King Alistair mentions that the Hero of Ferelden should be in Denerim in Year Seven, so unless we're mistaken about when Witch Hunt takes place, it seems that the Hero returned with Morrigan and his child. Also, Seneschal Garevel seemed to have made the stupid move of recruiting Roland - a templar - into the order, who acted as a spy for the Chantry, so I don't think we should trust his judgement.

Wait sorry.. Whos Roland? lol

also yeah that ones seemingly up in the air atm, The timeline is screwed up badly so that confuses things, plus the whole fact that DA2 was started before witch hunt so who knows if Alistairs VA did those recordings before or after witch hunt is anyones guess.
But I do seem to remember Morrigan saying something like once she uses the Eluvian than it can be never used again... Dont know if that effects things but seems like a possible reason for them not to come back

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 02 mai 2011 - 09:24 .

[Bigdoser]

If my mage warden was around and she heard a mage and templar war was springing up she say something like this "Its about dam time somthing happend! Oghren go get my staff while i warm up to blow off some templar heads "

[Aradace]

Doesnt matter if he/she is drawn into it or not. Why? Because regardless, you wont be getting to play him/her. Get used to the idea because if the greenlight is given for DA3, you will either be playing as Hawke again, or some new protagonist that WILL be voiced. The only way you'd get to play your warden again (in any form) is they removed the voiced hero. Which again, isnt going to happen.

I can even say with quite a bit of confidence that you wont even get to play your warden in any form even in any future DLC. (which I know some folks are hoping for)

[xi ShadowWolf x]

wait till the next dragon age dlc/game etc to come out and see

[Aradace]

xi ShadowWolf x wrote...

wait till the next dragon age dlc/game etc to come out and see

Dont need to wait and see when I can say with almost 100% certainty that you're never getting to play your warden in any form ever again.  The closest thing youll get is a new protag that happens to be a warden or is joining the wardens and is fully voiced.

[LobselVith8]

XxDeonxX wrote...

Wait sorry.. Whos Roland? lol

In Anders' short story, he's the templar who was recruited into the Grey Wardens. I imagine that it must have happened when the Hero of Ferelden left for the lost thaig of Amgarrak.

XxDeonxX wrote...

also yeah that ones seemingly up in the air atm, The timeline is screwed up badly so that confuses things, plus the whole fact that DA2 was started before witch hunt so who knows if Alistairs VA did those recordings before or after witch hunt is anyones guess.

I recall someone claiming that David Gaider even called into question whether Awakening took place six months from the end of Origins, so it seems to be a real mess.

XxDeonxX wrote...

But I do seem to remember Morrigan saying something like once she uses the Eluvian than it can be never used again... Dont know if that effects things but seems like a possible reason for them not to come back

I'd imagine that could mean from Ferelden, since we know extremely little about the Eluvian and what could be on the other side, but I like the thought of the Hero of Ferelden avoiding the mess that Thedas has become.

[Kenshen]

"Not all us desire war." - Cassandra

This is pretty vague. She never says what she really wants. All we get is Hawke was there at the begining and maybe the mages or templar will listen to him/her. For all we know she wants all the mages to return to the circle and there jail cells. I can not see the chantry all of the sudden allowing mages to roam free.

One thing I am curious about is during the ending Cassandra asks Lel if they should continue to look for Hawke or stick to the orginal plan. What was the orginal plan? Though this does tell me that they are no longer looking for Hawke and maybe even the Warden. So other than some DLC which I doubt will help at all with the overall story our Hawke playing days have passed. DA3 will feature a new character.

Modifié par aryon69, 02 mai 2011 - 09:57 .

[CalJones]

Bear in mind that wardens have a limited lifespan. True, the hero could have lived another 30 years after the Blight, but that's a best case scenario. The taint is an easy get out clause from having to include the warden in future games (various disappearance scenarios notwithstanding). But we'll see, I suppose.

[Sussurus]

Don't know about in general that much, so many variables.
Mages would flock to whichever place offered the most safety, or was closest.
Ferelden would be one especially mage warden - alistair , but Tevinter seems like the place I'd head to.
It really all depends on if mages are a force or refugees scattered.
If a force and organised, I'd say they hold the towers and whatever cities close to them.
The templars don't seem to be able or willing to do anything anti mage at the end of DA:2.
So the strongest threat is the people themselves, rulers or peasants depending on local feeling it's chaos, hostile or shelter.

However I can see the meeting of a specific character run.

Warden Amell, so second cousin Carver you wish for the King my lover to discuss an allience of wardens, Ferelden and the mages?
Let us speak to your sister my other relative Hawke, oh she has brought her partner as well, and the leader of the revolt in Kirkwall.

Ah.. it's Isabella last I saw of you you were under Alistair now you're sleeping with my cousin?
No you can't have a 5 some!
WTF it's Anders as well, and Justice? in one body, that's it call the templars I've had enough of this.

Modifié par Sussurus, 02 mai 2011 - 10:22 .

[Augustei]

aryon69 wrote...

"Not all us desire war." - Cassandra

This is pretty vague. She never says what she really wants. All we get is Hawke was there at the begining and maybe the mages or templar will listen to him/her. For all we know she wants all the mages to return to the circle and there jail cells. I can not see the chantry all of the sudden allowing mages to roam free.

One thing I am curious about is during the ending Cassandra asks Lel if they should continue to look for Hawke or stick to the orginal plan. What was the orginal plan? Though this does tell me that they are no longer looking for Hawke and maybe even the Warden. So other than some DLC which I doubt will help at all with the overall story our Hawke playing days have passed. DA3 will feature a new character.

Yeah if Leliana came to my Warden asking for his help he would have flipped her off and been like "Yeah... Not gonna happen"
Im still unsure on who my own warden would side if forced to lol, whichever would be in the best intrests of Ferelden and or whichever his King Alistair would choose I would imagine. But I cant see him going out of his way to break his neutrality