43 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

Warden-led mage army being charged by my Hawke-led templar army?

Would be fun.

[Sammyjb]

No he/she will not. Huge resource drain, and there is no promise that the conversion from Origins graphics to now graphics won't Alistair-and-Teaganize our wardens.

[Silfren]

I certainly hope that the Warden will be dragged into the war, since there would be all sorts of implications at hand if the Hero of Ferelden, Warden-Commander of Ferelden/Arl(essa) of Amaranthine, and potentially the Teyrn of Gwaren were a mage.  It's already established lore that mages aren't allowed to hold titles, much less be in positions of rule.  So there's a great deal of potential fallout in Ferelden if the Warden is a mage, even without the clusterfail of Kirkwall.  So I would imagine that with a Ferelden populace having to deal with centuries of tradition being overturned in the event of a mage Warden, this would be even more complicated with a sudden mage rebellion happening all over Thedas.

I created a Mage Warden import to be part of the background for my canon Hawke playthrough specifically because of that, so she bloody well had better be dragged into the conflict. 

It really wouldn't make sense for her not to be.  The political ramifications are kinda too important to just be ignored, given the established lore.

[LobselVith8]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Warden-led mage army being charged by my Hawke-led templar army?

Would be fun.

Considering that, in Warden's Keep, we see that a small group of Grey Wardens (under the command of Sophia Dryden) were able to hold their own against the army of Ferelden... it sounds very interesting, to say the least.

[Icy Magebane]

I don't think the First Warden would allow this. The Grey Wardens' job is to fight Darkspawn, not engage in revolutions that span all of Thedas. Whatever happens in the Mage/Templar War should be decided by those parties, not the Grey Wardens. Let's say they join one side or the other, or worse yet, the various lesser Commanders take sides and split the Wardens into factions... what about the Darkspawn? Who's going to continue the fight when the Wardens are depleted in numbers from a war that doesn't concern them, or worse yet, infighting?

No... I just don't see this happening.

[TJPags]

Can't see the Wardens as a whole getting involved in this.  Choose the wrong side, and that could be VERY bad for the Order.

That said, and remembering that not all Wardens were mages, I have a variety of Wardens to decide how they'd act.

Most would firmly and completely stay out of this.  Those Cousland Wardens of mine?  Yea, they want no part of this war.  None of their business, bad for the Wardens, bad for Ferelden.  Since most of them are King of Ferelden, not getting involved.  And neither is Ferelden, so lose that whole "Ferelden is a mage haven" idea.  They show up, they can either try the Joining, go to the Ferelden Circle, get out of the country, or get killed.

I do have one Cousland who might side with mages, just to ****** off the Chantry.  That guy didn't like the Chantry - not one bit.  Didn't have a problem with mages in Circles, but hated the Chantry.

My Dalish Elves?  Again, most want no part of this.  War between Shems?  Leave us out of it, please - bad for Wardens, and when have human wars led to good things for Elves?

I do have an Elf who'd take sides - sort of.  Any mage who wants out of the Circle would be welcome to come take the Joining.  Live, and you're in the Wardens - congrats.  But don't think we're fighting any revolution.

Nah, most of my Wardens care about one thing - killing Darkspawn.  They'd take any recruits out of this war - mages AND templars - who wanted to join.  And toss everyone else out on their arses.
 
However, some of my Couslands would be willing to act as mediator towards a truce.

[IanPolaris]

The default storyline is with Alister as king and Fereldan is most definately a mage-haven if Alister or Anora rule....and I think Anora would overrule your King Cousland on this.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

[dp]

[LobselVith8]

TJPags wrote...

Can't see the Wardens as a whole getting involved in this.  Choose the wrong side, and that could be VERY bad for the Order.

I can see that would be the mindset of Wardens like Stroud. I wasn't so much thinking of the Wardens as the entire order, but rather The Warden, specifically the one from the background of the Circle of Magi. I can see that the mages might want to seek him out as a local leader, given his background in leading entire armies in a battle against the greatest foe that humanity has ever faced. Might The Warden be the one who decides what role, if any, the Ferelden Circle plays in the seemingly inevitable war between the templars and the mages?

TJPags wrote...

That said, and remembering that not all Wardens were mages, I have a variety of Wardens to decide how they'd act.

Most would firmly and completely stay out of this. 

I think that, if the templars were to play it smart, they wouldn't try to go after the Grey Warden mages. The smart tacticians would realize that you don't give a legendary order a reason to get involved in a war opposing you, after all. After all, it sounds like there's a compelling threat that already has them all mobilized, and I wonder if it has anything to do with Morrigan's warning at the end of Witch Hunt. Like your Warden examples provided, there will inevitably be people who would have reasons to side with either the templars or the mages, and even some who might want a middle ground, like Cassandra said she wanted. I wonder if the writers plan on having a Nevarine moment and pulling The Warden out of the story to avoid addressing what side he or she might choose in the war between the templars and the mages, or whether we might have a choice in determing what the former hero and protagonist of the series does.

[TJPags]

IanPolaris wrote...

The default storyline is with Alister as king and Fereldan is most definately a mage-haven if Alister or Anora rule....and I think Anora would overrule your King Cousland on this.

-Polaris

What default storyline are you talking about?  There are 3 pre-set worlds to import.  None of them are more valid than any other.

And nothing in DA2 referencing Ferelden being a mage haven unless Alistair is King.  So, I'd say Anora isn't harboring any mages until shown otherwise.

[frustratemyself]

A mage Warden may end up getting dragged into the war whether they want to or not. If they choose to remain neutral they may still have mages within the wardens demanding they take a side.
There would probably also be "rebel wardens" that are anti-Circle/Templars that run away from the Wardens (like Anders) to fight against the Chantry & Templars because they can't/won't stay neutral out of principle.

[IanPolaris]

There is a very clearly set "default" storyline and two alternate pre-set worlds but they are clearly labled as such (the Matyr and No Compromises respectively).

So yes, Bioware does seem to be going with the default assumption for developement purposes that Alistair is king (and honestly it's what most people picked in DAO).

-Polaris

P.S. Anora doesn't make a cameo, but if you ask around, you find that Anora is also making Fereldan a mage haven. It's just not as obvious as with Alistair. Anora is also just as capable of giving the mage boon as Alistair (more so in fact unless you DLed the dialog patches).

[TJPags]

IanPolaris wrote...

There is a very clearly set "default" storyline and two alternate pre-set worlds but they are clearly labled as such (the Matyr and No Compromises respectively).

So yes, Bioware does seem to be going with the default assumption for developement purposes that Alistair is king (and honestly it's what most people picked in DAO).

-Polaris

P.S. Anora doesn't make a cameo, but if you ask around, you find that Anora is also making Fereldan a mage haven. It's just not as obvious as with Alistair. Anora is also just as capable of giving the mage boon as Alistair (more so in fact unless you DLed the dialog patches).

Besides your own opinion, what makes that pre-set a "default" as opposed to any other?  Because it's the one on top?  Or do you have something else?

And I don't care what most people picked.  Bioware may decide in DA3 that Alistair is King as canon, but they haven't yet.  I've never made him King.  Never will.  Whiny spineless bastard don't want the job, he don't get it.

Re: your P.S. - where do I ask around?  Because I did check with the bartender a lot, tried to find all the "gossip" NPCs I could in my first game, and never heard any hint of this.  The only time I've ever heard it is here on the boards.

Finally, Alistair making Ferelden a mage haven doesn't seem tied to the mage boon, so far as I know.  So why would that be the effect of Anora doing it?

[LobselVith8]

TJPags wrote...

Finally, Alistair making Ferelden a mage haven doesn't seem tied to the mage boon, so far as I know.  So why would that be the effect of Anora doing it?

I believe that's in reference to the Magi boon being bugged on the vanilla game, because if King Alistair provides The Warden with the boon, the flag isn't properly set. It's only recognized if Queen Anora provides The Warden with the boon, whether she's ruling alone or with Alistair as her husband (if Loghain was spared and Alistair's personality is hardened). When Anora provided The Warden with the boon, Irving made a direct reference to the emancipation of the Circle of Ferelden by thanking him for "freeing us from our shackles." Irving says that the Hero of Ferelden could have chosen wealth or power, and is thankful for his choice.

[TJPags]

LobselVith8 wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Finally, Alistair making Ferelden a mage haven doesn't seem tied to the mage boon, so far as I know.  So why would that be the effect of Anora doing it?

I believe that's in reference to the Magi boon being bugged on the vanilla game, because if King Alistair provides The Warden with the boon, the flag isn't properly set. It's only recognized if Queen Anora provides The Warden with the boon, whether she's ruling alone or with Alistair as her husband (if Loghain was spared and Alistair's personality is hardened). When Anora provided The Warden with the boon, Irving made a direct reference to the emancipation of the Circle of Ferelden by thanking him for "freeing us from our shackles." Irving says that the Hero of Ferelden could have chosen wealth or power, and is thankful for his choice.

I understand all that.

But as I understand it, the Alistair mage-haven reference happens any time he's king, whether you chose the mage boon or not, whether you have the vanilla game or not.  If that's wrong, someone please correct me.

So my point is, why would it be necessary to have chosen the mage boon to have Anora do that, if she does it at all?

[Sussurus]

@ TJPags and Ianpolaris.
The Hero of feralden first import is the default because it clearly states it is.
Just load up a new game... run the blasted intro bit.
Get to Hawke creation chose the events...
Hero of Feralden (Default history.)
The Martyr (Pre - built history.)
No compromise (Pre - built history.)

Whether it means "default" as in the one people to lazy to chose otherwise will pick.
Or default as in the history Bioware considers lore and will base future events around I don't know.
Odds are if only one is called "default", then it's default in very nature however.

Modifié par Sussurus, 03 mai 2011 - 10:18 .

[Mahtisonni]

If Leliana came to my warden and asked for help he'd be like "Didn't I kill you already?"

[jonesd]

I'm rather curious about how they play it. I don't see them varying the endings until they decide on a "last game" (if that ever happens). I kind of think we will have some form of a role in the war, though I don't know what. And towards the end Flemeth and/or Morrgian will make their move, which will lead to another cliff hanger for DA4.

[FaeQueenCory]

The Chantry also, like the Wardens, are a middle ground in this conflict between the Templars and Mages. We all like to think that the Templars are listening to the priests... but Varric said in the epilogue that they also broke from the Chantry, which explains why the Seekers are so desperate to return order to the world: not only did mages rebel from their leashes, but their only strong arm abandoned the Chantry...
But the forums seem to hate the Chantry.... so I doubt many will view them as another middle ground... Even though the current Divine is super awesome and mage friendly... (And given that the brought Leliana into the fold, it could be safely assumed that her views on Andraste and the Maker are of a similar, if way more othodox than Leliana's)

As to the titular question: I sure hope so! I want my Warden Amell to show up again and perhaps meet his cousin... and go fix this mess that Anders and Justice caused.... He'd feel responsible...
(My Warden created the DemonGodBaby, became Warden Commander or Fereldon, and did not pass into the Eluvian... so he COULD show up again....)