15 réponses à ce sujet

[DW2511]

SKILLS-

DW- Unf. Chain, Backstab, 2*Expl. Strike, 2*Twin Fangs

SPECIALIST- Precision(Always on early, on against Bosses late)

SCOUNDREL- Blindside, B2B, Follow-Through, Armistice

SUBTERFUGE- Stealth

DUELIST- Everything except Sure Strikes and Cutting Barbs

ASSASIN- Everything except the Pinpoint Strikes upgrade



With so many points in Specs, this is a late bloomer. Pick Duelist first and save Assasinate for later.



ATTRIBUTES, end game with runes-

STR 34(prebuffed to around 24-25)

DEX 52(down to 42 min)

CUN 53(up to 63 for 20% more crit dmg)

WP 25(Good for 200 stamina)

CON 36(300 hp with items)



Save money for the following items: Helm of a thousand Battles, Belt of Promise, The Fallen Star. Be stingy in Acts 1 and 2.




Some end game facts:

24 Fortidude(no knockback, can be more with items)
100/100/100 Attack rating, 195 DPS, 99% crit chance with Runes of Striking
80/80/80 Defense rating, 300hp, 200% crit dmg
31% dmg res( 56% against Gauntleted enemies, 93% phys dmg res against Gauntleted Elites, 83% against Gauntleted Bosses)
37% mag res
Immune to Criticals
Access to Twin Fangs, Assasinate and a 100% crit Vendetta


Have fun out-tanking Aveline AND dealing 5 times the damage of Isabela.

[minianthunter]

I remember reading some where that immunity to knockback, maybe it was from a item that it doesn't work but, (for example) it worked if you have enough fortitude from str, or a talent. Something to look into/confirm.

[mr_afk]

hmm.. with the helm only costing 133.4.25g, the belt of promise 112.0.93g, and the fallen star (which I deem to be unnecessary and wasteful) 48.18.0g; if you're really stingy/efficient you might be able to afford another 100+g item. Pretty much you'll definitely be able to afford a third 100+g item if you don't get the fallen star so why don't you give a possible alternative of stealth boots (99.51.72)? Probably the best boots in the game for a rogue (+2 all attributes, 37 defense, 21% crit dmg). I would also recommend the etched ring of the twins (as it would remove knock back issues completely) but you probably can't afford that.

Also. I'm wondering about how you managed to get such high dps with such a low dexterity? And how did you get 200% crit damage? So what is your level and the actual gear you had equipped (weapons, armour etc) for the end game facts? Makes me wonder how high a glass cannon rogue can get...

Interesting idea though. How does it fare against groups - with only single target dps do you still have to evade/jump around the battle field or can you play it pretty much like a warrior?

Modifié par mr_afk, 02 mai 2011 - 08:21 .

[IN1]

First of all, I have no doubt this build works as claimed. I don't challenge you on this point at all. My issue with your idea is on a conceptual level: why? I mean, why would one want to make a tank rogue?

In DA2, offense >>> defense. I play super-squishy builds (base Con, mage apparel) solo, both as a warrior and a rogue, and my evaluation is there is no scenario in this game, during which non-elemental DR or defense rating would play a critical role. It is a nice luxury, and it makes your life easier -- as such, it's nice to have if you have nothing else to invest in, no doubt about that. However, you can live without it. Easily.

It's sort of useless solo (you have Stealth, if you need to get out), and it's even more useless in a party formation, where you have CC and party buffs. Survival is never a real issue in DA2, provided you play your cards right -- especially after a couple of playthroughs. So, curiously enough, 10% damage is more valuable than 2000% survivability, even if we choose to trust your ad math Unless you are playing it hardcore: no loading, no deaths. In that case, I endorse your build wholeheartedly.

Modifié par IN1, 02 mai 2011 - 08:28 .

[minianthunter]

Sorry for slight derailment.

mr_afk wrote...
Makes me wonder how high a glass cannon rogue can get...

I suggest you look at this thread, http://social.biowar...5/index/6890353, after adopting a similar build with my first playthrough rogue (no optimized gear and such) i had 100% crit chance and something like 295% crit damage,  I don't remember the dps but my dex was low (33 before gear buffs, should have been lower because I didn't take into account heroic aura when I looked at it, but then I would have ran into problems putting on gear) because if i put 1 more point into it my crit chance would have been over capped, and attack was well over 100% as well.  My defense rating was 19k at 80% which was like 15k rating over that cap

Unfortnately that was my post game file and I didn't have anything to try it out on, and I didn't try an earlier say yet either

I believe i was level 26 for that, but I'm not sure and I can't check atm

[DW2511]

Agree on the Stealth Boots, but you have to be Scroodge for 40 game hours. I like to buy other stuff here and there.

The Fallen Star's +1 attr and + 23 health means basically 10 free attr. points. A char that invests in many attributes gets far more mileage out of those +1 all attrs items. That also strengthens your Stealth Boots argument.

Assasins get more crit dmg out of CUN.

Those are end game maximised stats, lvl 26.

Armor of the Champion minus the hood was what I was wearing.

You can play it like a Warrior, sure. If flanking dmg becomes an issue, there's a 20 gold ACT 2 Amulet that gives you immunity. Armistice mostly draws enemies to you due to your high DPS , and late game you can spec out of Stealth and get Goad, which works like a limited radius Taunt.

DPS numbers are normal for a rogue, in my experience.

Unless you are playing it hardcore: no loading, no deaths. In that case, I endorse your build wholeheartedly.

Yup. I've already accomplished that with a tank mage, and ever since every build that causes Hawke to die often and reload just feels weak and less heroic. But mostly this is a build for the average NM player , not people who have invested in so many playthroughs so as to anticipate every battle detail. Pick this as your first NM build and you'll waltz, hence the topic title I chose. I agree on your general points, though.

Modifié par DW2511, 02 mai 2011 - 08:46 .

[mr_afk]

minianthunter wrote...
I suggest you look at this thread, http://social.biowar...5/index/6890353,

Haha Arelex's builds are always pretty solid. And yeah, I did some calcs that suggest leaving dex at the lowest possible to meet the requirements (relying on duelist to reach 100% attack rate and ~100% crit chance) and pumping all the rest into cunning gives the highest dps due to devious harm.

I always thought that leaving dex low would cause the dps shown by the game to be pretty low (as I don't think it includes crit chance and crit damage into the calcs). Thus a dps of around 195 sounds almost like a full dex build (though I haven't played rogue recently enough to remember what end-game dps's are like). But yeah, maybe i should just pull out my old rogue playthrough and check the stats there.

After I finish my mage-playthrough (which is starting to drag on due to my tendency to experiment then revert to an older save to continue my stingy money conserving) I'm thinking of trying an elemental DW rogue - if there's any +%nature armour to be had. I'm currently doubting that so I'll probably end up with some mainstream rogue and get bored of it. Oh well.

Modifié par mr_afk, 02 mai 2011 - 08:43 .

[minianthunter]

DW2511 wrote...
Those are end game maximised stats, lvl 26.

Yea my response was to what Mr. AFK said, thus the quotes just before what I said, and a derailment apology before the quotes.  I wasn't saying that to compare to your build, or to outshine it, I was just trying to tell Mr. AFK what those full glass cannon rogue's numbers look like, and the only character I done that build on was 26.

[mr_afk]

Don't worry, nothing can outshine DW2511's builds at tankiness.

[DW2511]

minianthunter wrote...

DW2511 wrote...
Those are end game maximised stats, lvl 26.

Yea my response was to what Mr. AFK said, thus the quotes just before what I said, and a derailment apology before the quotes.  I wasn't saying that to compare to your build, or to outshine it, I was just trying to tell Mr. AFK what those full glass cannon rogue's numbers look like, and the only character I done that build on was 26.

No prob, I was actually adressing AFK with that line.

[IN1]

DW2511 wrote...

Unless you are playing it hardcore: no loading, no deaths. In that case, I endorse your build wholeheartedly.

Yup. I've already accomplished that with a tank mage, and ever since every build that causes Hawke to die often and reload just feels weak and less heroic. But mostly this is a build for the average NM player , not people who have invested in so many playthroughs so as to anticipate every battle detail. Pick this as your first NM build and you'll waltz, hence the topic title I chose. I agree on your general points, though.

I see. Very well done, then. I'm sure it's a very hardcore-viable build.

[minianthunter]

DW2511 wrote...

No prob, I was actually adressing AFK with that line.

My mistake then, it was just a coincedance with the levels of our characters lol.

[Apathy1989]

I prefer getting the cartas left and right hand daggers. Knockback immunity, although this is act 3 weapon.

[DW2511]

Rune slots? I like the low blade and finesse for + 22% att speed and +8% crit chance.

[haroldhardluck]

Both DAO and DA2 have a bias for rogues and this is my second favorite class after mages.

DW2511 wrote...
SKILLS-
DW- Unf. Chain, Backstab, 2*Expl. Strike, 2*Twin Fangs
SPECIALIST- Precision(Always on early, on against Bosses late)
SCOUNDREL- Blindside, B2B, Follow-Through, Armistice
SUBTERFUGE- Stealth
DUELIST- Everything except Sure Strikes and Cutting Barbs
ASSASIN- Everything except the Pinpoint Strikes upgrade

I had no problems with my DW rogue but found that the archer rogue is much better. Killing from afar is much safer and the rain of arrows is very nice to have. I also found Speed better than Precision. I did not find the Scoundrel skills useful. Stealth, Evade and the various gas attacks were far more useful for escaping tight situations. And the Assassin skills were the Must Have after the specific weapons skills.

ATTRIBUTES, end game with runes-
STR 34(prebuffed to around 24-25)
DEX 52(down to 42 min)
CUN 53(up to 63 for 20% more crit dmg)
WP 25(Good for 200 stamina)
CON 36(300 hp with items)

I found that STR and CON in the 12-16 range to be perfectly fine for my rogue. With a high Cunning, you rarely get hit and speed is more important than strength for both the DW and archer rogue. Willpower, Dex and Cunning were the 3 attributes that I made as high as possible although 40 seems to be about the max that was usable.

Harold

[DW2511]

1 point in Precision nets you 20% attack and 10% crit chance, allowing you to go min DEX. Pretty handy.

Scoundrel is mostly for Follow-Through, allowing you to go min WP.