140 réponses à ce sujet

[armass]

Yeah storywise it felt more like a prelude to things to come, i came a bit disappointed after the epic last battle in ME1, tough i did think the suicide mission was pretty cool, especially since you control who lives or dies pretty much. Expecting them to really expand from this in the third game, im just worried Walters starts to make more retcons and odd decisions.

[armass]

Someone With Mass wrote...

If the Collectors had completed the Reaper, then it'd have been a problem. Could've been another Sovereign if Shepard hadn't stopped them.

yes, in a couple of decades...

[SalsaDMA]

Q: Are you worried about the plot of ME3?

A: Yes

[TheOtherTheoG]

Am I missing these supposed 'uber-massive plotholes'?

[Tazzmission]

armass wrote...

Since we know about all the errors the second part has made, and the same writers are doing the third part, how worried are you about the overarching plot?

We can already make some questions:

Why is Shepard on a trial, when She's a spectre, above the law?

What, if anything did she do or accomplish in the couple of months after blowing up the starsystem to gain advantage against the reapers? 300,000 batarians have been killed for a time of 2 months and the reapers still invade in the middle of her trial, like no one knew of their coming?

Why does TIM now suddenly want to kill you, the greatest hope for humanity, in the middle of a reaper invasion?

This is a bad omen, i would say. And the Evolution comic.

please tell me your joking


shepards on trial for his actions in arrival and shepard has a history of not likeing bartarians

most likley tim wants to rid of shepard either way because shepard did the job he wanted done and shepard can expose cerbrus


and if you learned to listen in the dlc you would hear the doctor say the relay is connected to others. just because this one got destroyed dosent mean the reapers cant slowly go to another relay

[jamesp81]

armass wrote...

Since we know about all the errors the second part has made, and the same writers are doing the third part, how worried are you about the overarching plot?

We can already make some questions:

Why is Shepard on a trial, when She's a spectre, above the law?

What, if anything did she do or accomplish in the couple of months after blowing up the starsystem to gain advantage against the reapers? 300,000 batarians have been killed for a time of 2 months and the reapers still invade in the middle of her trial, like no one knew of their coming?

Why does TIM now suddenly want to kill you, the greatest hope for humanity, in the middle of a reaper invasion?

This is a bad omen, i would say. And the Evolution comic.

Shepard is also in the Alliance Navy.  The Council might consider him above the law, the Alliance Navy can enforce it's own military law against Shepard if they capture him, and there's **** all the Council can or will do about it.

Spectres might be above the law, technically, but I'd guess that the Council assumes Spectres are smart enough to not get arrested and put on trial.  And it they do, there's that whole plausible deniability / disavow thing going.

[Eduadinho]

You know why these threads are so stupid, because some person wants to rag on ME and let the whole world know. If you feel the game fails in someway why is it necessary to post it on the forums. People like the OP Marshelleck and ExtremeOne hunt down threads like this so they can continuously have their opinions made but it is a waste of everyone's time.

[Iakus]

jamesp81 wrote...

armass wrote...

Since we know about all the errors the second part has made, and the same writers are doing the third part, how worried are you about the overarching plot?

We can already make some questions:

Why is Shepard on a trial, when She's a spectre, above the law?

What, if anything did she do or accomplish in the couple of months after blowing up the starsystem to gain advantage against the reapers? 300,000 batarians have been killed for a time of 2 months and the reapers still invade in the middle of her trial, like no one knew of their coming?

Why does TIM now suddenly want to kill you, the greatest hope for humanity, in the middle of a reaper invasion?

This is a bad omen, i would say. And the Evolution comic.

Shepard is also in the Alliance Navy.  The Council might consider him above the law, the Alliance Navy can enforce it's own military law against Shepard if they capture him, and there's **** all the Council can or will do about it.

Spectres might be above the law, technically, but I'd guess that the Council assumes Spectres are smart enough to not get arrested and put on trial.  And it they do, there's that whole plausible deniability / disavow thing going.

Plus ther are worse reset buttons.  They could decide to simply kill Shepard and then bring him back as a cybernetic killing machine via space magic.

Oh wait...

Modifié par iakus, 03 mai 2011 - 09:20 .

[Mr. MannlyMan]

^ You know what's even more stupid? Coming into a "stupid" thread, posting in it, then complaining that it wasted your time. That's about as stupid as complaining about how McDonald's made you or your friend fat.

@OP: I do have some concerns for ME3's plot, but the whole "Spectres can't be put on trial" issue is NOT a plot hole. Shepard's fall from grace parallels Saren's, and the Council didn't put up with Saren when they discovered that he had attacked a human colony, so why would they protect Shepard after he destroyed a batarian system?

[Someone With Mass]

Eduadinho wrote...

You know why these threads are so stupid, because some person wants to rag on ME and let the whole world know. If you feel the game fails in someway why is it necessary to post it on the forums. People like the OP Marshelleck and ExtremeOne hunt down threads like this so they can continuously have their opinions made but it is a waste of everyone's time.

This whole forum is a waste of time, really.

We do it because it's fun.

[Eduadinho]

I'm trying to stop the stupidity. By from this post onwards to stop paying attention to these people.

Hmm might be a lost cause.

PS How did you know that McDonalds made my friend fat have you been spying on us you STALKER.

Modifié par Eduadinho, 03 mai 2011 - 09:38 .

[Crusherix]

I worry about all the breadcrumbs after eating the roasted sandwich, some parts you wanted answers/knowledge for that may not make it in the final sequel.

About the story? how the repears gets defeated yes that worries me but only because i cannot come up with any ending that would be good myself. I do not want a simple ending aka "finding ultimate weapon" game over.

[armass]

Tazzmission wrote...

armass wrote...

Since we know about all the errors the second part has made, and the same writers are doing the third part, how worried are you about the overarching plot?

We can already make some questions:

Why is Shepard on a trial, when She's a spectre, above the law?

What, if anything did she do or accomplish in the couple of months after blowing up the starsystem to gain advantage against the reapers? 300,000 batarians have been killed for a time of 2 months and the reapers still invade in the middle of her trial, like no one knew of their coming?

Why does TIM now suddenly want to kill you, the greatest hope for humanity, in the middle of a reaper invasion?

This is a bad omen, i would say. And the Evolution comic.

please tell me your joking


shepards on trial for his actions in arrival and shepard has a history of not likeing bartarians

most likley tim wants to rid of shepard either way because shepard did the job he wanted done and shepard can expose cerbrus


and if you learned to listen in the dlc you would hear the doctor say the relay is connected to others. just because this one got destroyed dosent mean the reapers cant slowly go to another relay

Not really my personal questions, just some i have picked around here so they can be answered or discussed.

[wulf3n]

Someone With Mass wrote...
No, that's what YOU would have wanted. 

It's clear that they wanted Shepard to remain a Alliance soldier, but forced him to work with Cerberus to overcome a new enemy.

I'm just fine with that myself. Means I can quit that band of lobotomized retards when the job is done.

It's how they forced shepard is the problem.
For a career soldier as decorated as shepard, taking the word of the leader of a traitorous organization that has  tried to kill you numerous times, and potentially wiped out your entire squad, that he's your only option is well... incredibly stupid.

I also get that they wanted to make you feel conflicted about working for Cerberus, but rail roading my character into the choice, without even giving me any real chance to vent, takes away any real conflict.

A better option would have been to use the start of the game to show that the council and the alliance were practically abandoning you, retracting their admission of the reapers, and forcing you to do pointless crap to get you out of the spotlight so no one believes you.
Then when with the looming reaper threat , dissappearing colonies, and no assistance from the very people you swore your life to obey, an unexpected helping hand is offered from Miranda / Jacob. They offer the resources you need to start you're investigation, and you do a few missions with them.
You then find out they're cerberus, You have a massive hissy fit / argument, venting all your frustrations at cerberus, but they remind you that there's no one else that will help, and the only way for you to save the galaxy is to get off your high horse and do what has to be done... and theres the conflict. 

Modifié par wulf3n, 04 mai 2011 - 10:52 .

[Phaedon]

armass wrote...
I think Smudboy can lay it out better than any other. Even if you don't agree with his tone, he makes alot of fair points.

No, he does not.

Certainly, absolutely, completely,

NO.

--
Why are you worried about the plot again? The mistakes that were made in the second part?

The sames mistakes that have it praised by gamers,critics, and have it break the GOTY award record I guess.

Modifié par Phaedon, 04 mai 2011 - 11:00 .

[Someone With Mass]

wulf3n wrote...

It's how they forced shepard is the problem.
For a career soldier as decorated as shepard, taking the word of the leader of a traitorous organization that has  tried to kill you numerous times, and potentially wiped out your entire squad, that he's your only option is well... incredibly stupid.

I also get that they wanted to make you feel conflicted about working for Cerberus, but rail roading my character into the choice, without even giving me any real chance to vent, takes away any real conflict.

A better option would have been to use the start of the game to show that the council and the alliance were practically abandoning you, retracting their admission of the reapers, and forcing you to do pointless crap to get you out of the spotlight so no one believes you.
Then when with the looming reaper threat , dissappearing colonies, and no assistance from the very people you swore your life to obey, an unexpected helping hand is offered from Miranda / Jacob. They offer the resources you need to start you're investigation, and you do a few missions with them.
You then find out they're cerberus, You have a massive hissy fit / argument, venting all your frustrations at cerberus, but they remind you that there's no one else that will help, and the only way for you to save the galaxy is to get off your high horse and do what has to be done... and theres the conflict. 

That'd been very good, but there's one tiny little problem. Shepard is still a Spectre, and the Council told him that they're just there to guide him, not boss him around.

[Phaedon]

Eduadinho wrote...

You know why these threads are so stupid, because some person wants to rag on ME and let the whole world know. If you feel the game fails in someway why is it necessary to post it on the forums. People like the OP Marshelleck and ExtremeOne hunt down threads like this so they can continuously have their opinions made but it is a waste of everyone's time.

Yes.

[nelly21]

Phaedon wrote...

armass wrote...
I think Smudboy can lay it out better than any other. Even if you don't agree with his tone, he makes alot of fair points.

No, he does not.

Certainly, absolutely, completely,

NO.

--
Why are you worried about the plot again? The mistakes that were made in the second part?

The sames mistakes that have it praised by gamers,critics, and have it break the GOTY award record I guess.

QFT

Everybody knows the best points about ME 2's storyline are made by Extreme One. Simple as that.

[wulf3n]

Phaedon wrote...
No, he does not.

Certainly, absolutely, completely,

NO.

Biased much

Phaedon wrote...
--
Why are you worried about the plot again? The mistakes that were made in the second part?

The sames mistakes that have it praised by gamers,critics, and have it break the GOTY award record I guess.

No one doubts it was one of the better stories of the year. Even the writing was pretty good. But the story and plot... it was just so far below biowares norm, that one can't help but feel dissapointed.

Modifié par wulf3n, 04 mai 2011 - 11:09 .

[Phaedon]

wulf3n wrote...
Biased much

It is a factual statement to say that Smudboy didn't understand the plot in multiple occasions, was a horrible debater, and the points of his that are not easily contradicted by an analysis of his videos are exaggerated and obvious, also minor. A lot more forumites are better than smudboy.

Phaedon wrote...
No one doubts it was the best story of the year. Even the writing was pretty good. But the story and plot... it was just so far below biowares norm, that one can't help but feel dissapointed.

Again, biased much?

It followed the classic three-act trilogy structure, by introducing themes that will be important  in the third act (Cerberus, genophage, Geth-Quarian conflict, morality), maintained the overreaching plot (and added vital information on the nature of the Reapers), collected the resources that will be important in the third act (characters, Normandy, EDI etc)

All of these, it did very well.

Modifié par Phaedon, 04 mai 2011 - 11:13 .

[wulf3n]

[quote]Phaedon wrote...
It is a factual statement to say that Smudboy didn't understand the plot in multiple occasions, was a horrible debater, and the points of his that are not easily contradicted by an analysis of his videos are exaggerated and obvious, also minor. A lot more forumites are better than smudboy.[/quote]
No part of that is a factual statement. It's just your perception and opinion. 1 + 1 = 2 is a factual statement. What you believe smudboy to know or not know, good or bad debate (it wasn't really a debate either) whats exaggerated or minor, and wether other people are better at conveying opinions, is all your opinion. 

[quote]Phaedon wrote...
No one doubts it was the best story of the year. Even the writing was pretty good. But the story and plot... it was just so far below biowares norm, that one can't help but feel dissapointed.[/quote]
Again, biased much?

It followed the classic three-act trilogy structure, by introducing themes that will be important  in the third act (Cerberus, genophage, Geth-Quarian conflict, morality), maintained the overreaching plot (and added vital information on the nature of the Reapers), collected the resources that will be important in the third act (characters, Normandy, EDI etc)

All of these, it did very well.
[/quote]

it did it alright, every other bioware game has done it so much better though.

[Someone With Mass]

I'm not worried at all about the plot. Hell, it's already looking better than ME2's, and I thought that one was pretty good.

[nelly21]

wulf3n wrote...

No one doubts it was one of the better stories of the year. Even the writing was pretty good. But the story and plot... it was just so far below biowares norm, that one can't help but feel dissapointed.

And what is Bioware's norm? You are always a hero trying to stop a world/galaxy threatening bad guy. In ME 2, Bioware tried something different. Killing the Collectors may have been the final objective but the story was about assembling the most bad ass strike team the galaxy has ever seen. Sheperd had to force them to work through their differences in order to accomplish a greater goal.

I don't blast ME 1 to validate my points about ME 2. As I've said before, ME 1 is one of my favorite games ever. But what was so innovative about ME 1's story? Giant monsters threatening to destroy the galaxy. It has been done before. What makes Bioware's games unique are the well-written, fascinating characters. ME 2 had some of the best.

[wulf3n]

nelly21 wrote...
And what is Bioware's norm? You are always a hero trying to stop a world/galaxy threatening bad guy. In ME 2, Bioware tried something different. Killing the Collectors may have been the final objective but the story was about assembling the most bad ass strike team the galaxy has ever seen. Sheperd had to force them to work through their differences in order to accomplish a greater goal.

I never said they weren't formulaic, they're just tighter and more refined. Never in other Bioware games have i felt so in conflict with my character. I never questioned my motives, I was never confused about why i my character was doing any of this, Better alternatives to every choice were never so apparent. 

nelly21 wrote...
I don't blast ME 1 to validate my points about ME 2. As I've said before, ME 1 is one of my favorite games ever. But what was so innovative about ME 1's story? Giant monsters threatening to destroy the galaxy. It has been done before.

I've never said ME1 was innovative, or any bioware game for that matter. And i applaud bioware for trying something new. I criticize because i know they can do better.

nelly21 wrote...
What makes Bioware's games unique are the well-written, fascinating characters. ME 2 had some of the best.

But in the case of ME2 it felt as if that were at the cost of a less than thought out plot.

[Phaedon]

wulf3n wrote...
No part of that is a factual statement. It's just your perception and opinion. 1 + 1 = 2 is a factual statement.

Not necessarily, but anyway.

What you believe smudboy to know or not know, good or bad debate (it wasn't really a debate either) whats exaggerated or minor, and wether other people are better at conveying opinions, is all your opinion.

Based on standards. But I suppose you are right.
Iakus for example, I disagree with all the time. But he is a better debater than smudboy because:
a. Isn't as stubborn
b. Isn't pompous
c. Doesn't get aggressive

Phaedon wrote...
it did it alright, every other bioware game has done it so much better though.

Which other Bioware game follows this structure?
Don't say that DA2 is a second act, because it isn't. It's a sequel, but not a part of a greater story.

--
Characters? If not the best of a Bioware game, they are certainly some of the best.
Concepts? Morality in ME2 is far far deeper than most movies that deal with it, as you can see about the extent of the debates on the forums, the Normandy and the squadmates are introduced very well, the Genophage and the Geth-Quarian conflict is presented beautifully, since both of these concepts can be seen by the 'living' hub worlds that you can visit, you see both sides of the argument and there is at least a quest that centers around them.