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[wulf3n]

Phaedon wrote...
Characters? If not the best of a Bioware game, they are certainly some of the best.
Concepts? Morality in ME2 is far far deeper than most movies that deal with it, as you can see about the extent of the debates on the forums, the Normandy and the squadmates are introduced very well, the Genophage and the Geth-Quarian conflict is presented beautifully, since both of these concepts can be seen by the 'living' hub worlds that you can visit, you see both sides of the argument and there is at least a quest that centers around them.

I don't dissagree with any of these points, which is why i say ME2 had good writing. The problem was the structure that all of this good writing was built upon, the plot. The connections between all the good moments were sloppy and poorly thoughtout destroying the immersion. This may not be a big issue for some people, but for a lot of us, it really brings down what could have been so much more than the sum of it's parts.

[Tripedius]

wulf3n wrote...

Phaedon wrote...
No, he does not.

Certainly, absolutely, completely,

NO.

Biased much

Phaedon wrote...
--
Why are you worried about the plot again? The mistakes that were made in the second part?

The sames mistakes that have it praised by gamers,critics, and have it break the GOTY award record I guess.

No one doubts it was one of the better stories of the year. Even the writing was pretty good. But the story and plot... it was just so far below biowares norm, that one can't help but feel dissapointed.

ME2 & ME1 are the Bioware norms. The writing was pretty good period. It's not a literary novel you know. Most games pale in comparison to Bioware games in terms of writing. Even the worst one (DA2) is still beter than average. If you search and want to you can always find big ess gaping plot holes in every story. Mostly these plotholes are needed not to end the game for the antagonist in a bad way. Like why do criminals bent on destroying or ruling the world always explain their plans to James Bond (or other heroes)? So we can know.
Even ME1 has big plot holes, like why didn't Saren choose for the slow road, quietly indoctrinating the council and maybe even the rest of the galaxy. Nobody knows what reapers are and he was a trusted spectre so there was no need to do it guns blazing starting in Eden Prime.
ME2 defininately has some plot holes, but ignore them (mostly). Baldurs Gate had plot holes, Kotor had plot holes, Torment had plot holes, dragon age origins has plot holes. Just go with it and don't act if it is absolutely bad cause it isn't.

[Darth Death]

You can worry day & night, but the end result will be the same. In other words worrying is pointless.

[GamerT123]

jamesp81 wrote...

armass wrote...

Since we know about all the errors the second part has made, and the same writers are doing the third part, how worried are you about the overarching plot?

We can already make some questions:

Why is Shepard on a trial, when She's a spectre, above the law?

What, if anything did she do or accomplish in the couple of months after blowing up the starsystem to gain advantage against the reapers? 300,000 batarians have been killed for a time of 2 months and the reapers still invade in the middle of her trial, like no one knew of their coming?

Why does TIM now suddenly want to kill you, the greatest hope for humanity, in the middle of a reaper invasion?

This is a bad omen, i would say. And the Evolution comic.

Shepard is also in the Alliance Navy.  The Council might consider him above the law, the Alliance Navy can enforce it's own military law against Shepard if they capture him, and there's **** all the Council can or will do about it.

Spectres might be above the law, technically, but I'd guess that the Council assumes Spectres are smart enough to not get arrested and put on trial.  And it they do, there's that whole plausible deniability / disavow thing going.

Even if shepard was is a spectre does either anderson or udina have some level of control of what shepard is doing since they have seats to the council. they could easily convince the other members to revoke his/or her status as spectre and make him go to trail.

[Dean_the_Young]

I'm not especially worried, nor has Bioware given me much reason to be. Bioware doesn't have any recent history of putting out bad games: games some people don't enjoy for various reasons (not what they expected/not enough of what they wanted), but not bad games in terms of quality or content.

At worse, they'll go with a direction I don't like. They may even go in a way I don't like. But, overall, I have little reason to doubt that they'll do it in a competent manner like they regularly have. There will almost certainly points at which I think they could have done better... but then, I've held that view since Mass Effect 1, which in no way was a Paragon of balanced design and flawless writing. (See my numerous blogs pieces about how I think it could have been done better.)

Short of avoiding a few pet peaves, which come more from the fanbase than the medium anyway, I should be fine.

[ExtremeOne]

Someone With Mass wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...
I get the Mass relay charge idea . Mass Effect 2 should have been better . I mean if they wanted Shepard to join up with Cerberus. Killing Shepard was stupid at the start of it . They should have had a scene where Shepard got fed up with the alliance / council garbage and resigned and meet Miranda and Jacob and they offered him a Cerberus postion . that would have made logical sense . But now because of ME 2's stupid story mistakes ME 3 is in a bad postion 

No, that's what YOU would have wanted. 

It's clear that they wanted Shepard to remain a Alliance soldier, but forced him to work with Cerberus to overcome a new enemy.

I'm just fine with that myself. Means I can quit that band of lobotomized retards when the job is done.

  







Oh yeah thats right they do not have the balls to turn someone evil in their games . Its always you play as a hero and save the day at the end right . No wonder Mass Effect will never be on the iconic level of Sci Fi's biggest franchises Star Wars and Star Trek .  In Star Wars Anakin Skywalker turned to the dark side and became the iconic Darth Vader . In Star Trek Captian Picard became Locutus of Borg . Bioware might want to stay away from evil story telling since they clearly do not like it or don't have the balls to do it right .  Shepard being the bad guy saving the world in 3 would have been something new for games a hero turned evil that saved the world . But oh thats right games will never evolve because all games have to end hero and heroic action of saving the day . 

[Tripedius]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Oh yeah thats right they do not have the balls to turn someone evil in their games . Its always you play as a hero and save the day at the end right . No wonder Mass Effect will never be on the iconic level of Sci Fi's biggest franchises Star Wars and Star Trek .  In Star Wars Anakin Skywalker turned to the dark side and became the iconic Darth Vader . In Star Trek Captian Picard became Locutus of Borg . Bioware might want to stay away from evil story telling since they clearly do not like it or don't have the balls to do it right .  Shepard being the bad guy saving the world in 3 would have been something new for games a hero turned evil that saved the world . But oh thats right games will never evolve because all games have to end hero and heroic action of saving the day . 

Star Wars is a real piece of garbage story telling, not even anakin and luke skywalker combined could save.
Star Trek is that way ---> don't let the elevator hit you on your way out

[Fyk0]

I'm worried because Cerberus is after Shepard.
If we get a chance to kill Tim at somepoint, first thing what comes to my mind is:

Shepard: "Before I finish you, Illusive Man, why is the Cerberus chasing me after spendng a fortune to bring me back and knowing I might the best hope for saving the galaxy from the reapers? If you would have killed me, you would have dig your own grave already."

Tim: "For the only reason anyone does anything... for the lulz!"

[lolwut666]

ExtremeOne is a man on the edge! He's got nothing to lose!

[Krimson_Wolf]

I have some concerns about it but nothing that will deter me from buying it.

[Labrev]

One minor worry: I really hope that the VS choice has distinct pros/cons from the other. Otherwise, that decision was nothing more than a popularity contest. I had thought-out reasons for choosing who I did, so if it turns out to not matter at all I'll be rather miffed.

[didymos1120]

lolwut666 wrote...

ExtremeOne is a man on the edge! He's got nothing to lose!
*snip*

[CmdrKankrelat]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Oh yeah thats right they do not have the balls to turn someone evil in their games . Its always you play as a hero and save the day at the end right . No wonder Mass Effect will never be on the iconic level of Sci Fi's biggest franchises Star Wars and Star Trek .  In Star Wars Anakin Skywalker turned to the dark side and became the iconic Darth Vader . In Star Trek Captian Picard became Locutus of Borg . Bioware might want to stay away from evil story telling since they clearly do not like it or don't have the balls to do it right .  Shepard being the bad guy saving the world in 3 would have been something new for games a hero turned evil that saved the world . But oh thats right games will never evolve because all games have to end hero and heroic action of saving the day . 

I've noticed a few of your posts, and you seem intent on comparing Mass Effect to Star Trek and Star Wars.  Out of curiosity, why should ME be on the level of those two?  Now, I LOVE both Star Wars (even the prequels!) and Star Trek, but isn't ME in a different league due to it being a game where you the player make some contribution to the progression of the story?  And why the bitterness over Cerberus turning on you?  I think ME1 and ME2 both adequately highlighted that the organization is completely ruthless.  Given that, is their betrayal honestly a surprise?  And while it may seem stupid knowing only what we know now (they brought Shepard back from the dead, now they are against him), it may make more sense when they reveal the reason in ME3, and the Game Informer article explicitly stated that the reason is a well-kept secret at BioWare HQ, and we'll only find out when we play the game.   

[Dean_the_Young]

Now insert images of Conrad snogging Miranda into cranial lobe A...

[Last Vizard]

System reset in ME 3, actions of TIM proves that they needed a common starting point for everyone. First RPG elements go down the drain and a second story reset in a trilogy.... might have to look elsewhere for my RPG experiance.... Witcher 2 anyone?

[Paraxial]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Now insert images of Conrad snogging Miranda into cranial lobe A...

No thanks, i'm good.