82 réponses à ce sujet

[Manic Sheep]

Squad cryo is decent lazy mans CC and is pretty good against husks and other enemies when you are mass striping defences.

Modifié par Manic Sheep, 03 mai 2011 - 10:24 .

[Malanek]

lightsnow13 wrote...

I was thinking that perhaps if cryo would be the prereq instead of it being at the tail end -- would cryo abilities get a better rep? or would people just be pissed that its in the way of other abilities?

Probably both. There aren't enough different abilities to justify the pre-reqs in ME2 IMO. I think its one of the few bad design choices in the game system.

[jamesp81]

Clonedzero wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

AK404 wrote...

Warp, AP, and shredder, I'm sure, but that's part of their description. However, I'm fairly certain that disruptor has no bonus damage once it tears past shields, and the bonus damage from incendiary comes mostly from the DOT it inflicts.

I find the very best part about incendiary is its anti armor capabilities.  It does instant damage, instead of DOT, to armor.  I find that the "fire dance" effect against health is worth far more than the DOT to health, but the DOT to health is nice too.

plus, you're LIGHTING DUDES ON FIRE.

so yeah. thats pretty awesome too.

Yes, the kill it with fire part is also very appealing

[AK404]

dreman9999 wrote...

AK404 wrote...

Just to throw my two cents in...

Sinosleep has demonstrated that enemies have more health than defense, and that the damage bonuses from ammo are effective against that defense type only. Thus, incendiary ammo would have a 30% bonus against shields only, not health. Thus, for most single-defense enemies, you'll tear through their defenses far faster than you'll go through their health.

Thus, I've taken Simbacca's route and choose ammo based on their CC effects. That being said, I do enjoy squad disruptor ammo, but I'm giving cryo ammo a try on my infiltrator, and I have to say that when you're going up against enemies that immediate rush to melee - krogan, FENRIS, husks, Loki, klixen, varren - it's very handy to have because it allows you to continue holding the line. There're few things more satisfying than watching that charging varren frozen just as it reaches your feet.

...

Like most of the pro-cryo posters on this thread, I give cryo ammo to my squad mates and reserve the defense-tearing ammo for myself. What I tend to do is strip defenses away from targets as I see them, then move on to the next one as my squad mates freeze the crap out of them.

Give cryro a try only if you have a shotgun or assult rifle for infiltrators.

Oh, I'll readily admit that in most cases, cryo ammo isn't great for the infiltrator (it did make the Last Stand on Insanity much easier, though), but as most cryo advocates are quick to point out, the ammo isn't for Shepard, it's for your team.

Also, I know disruptor ammo does additional damage to synthetics (in addition to stunning them), but that tends to be a qualifier for me, and while I do love the universal overload effect, not every enemy uses guns.  Thus, for all-around CC, I'd choose cryo.

And yes, husks.

[DJ CAVE SLAVE]

It's great for the reaper iff mission. You don't even have to kill the husks completely, a couple rounds should do the trick.

[goofyomnivore]

Love it for husks. Anything else not so much. A lot of warp bombs have been fubard because of it, and when something is in "health" it is usually going to die very soon or be used for a biotic combo at least in my experiences.

Passive CC is always nice, I just felt I never needed it and it had a chance to mess up some of my tactics.

Basically YMMV, try it for yourself and see how you like it.

[JaegerBane]

lightsnow13 wrote...

I'm starting to use mordins cryo ability w/ my sentinel on insanity thanks to you guys. It is actually incredibly helpful. He freezes and I throw.

I'm glad I made this forum -- its definitely been redeeming for cryo

Try using the Cryo Blaster if you like how Biotics and Cryo interact. The Avalanche works very much the same, but with a significantly wider margin for error (it's freeze effect lasts for ages). It's actually my fave heavy weapon for my Adept after the Arc Projector.

Just be careful with warp bombs. Cryo is the number one cause for FUBAR'd warp explosions in my playthroughs.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 06 mai 2011 - 04:53 .

[Merchant2006]

Having (Squad) Cryo ammo on Heavy hitting weapons such as the Mattock, HPistols & Sniper rifles is an instant-freeze. It's amazing if you're a vanguard as you literally shread down the enemy defences and then your squad freezes the ones you aren't focusing on. I had around 4 frozen enemies in one area and fired away an Area Reave or Grenade Launcher and it was great.

It just depends on how you play but I really like Squad Cryo ammo for Vanguards, up close infiltrators and your tank bumrushing Soldier.

[atheelogos]

I say crap. After my first couple of playthroughs I stopped using it.

[Sailears]

Cryo ammo is amazing (1pt, squad, or improved), squad cryo even more so.

Cryo blast is decent, but not a showstopper like pull.

Edit: and avalanche is mildly overpowered!

Modifié par Curunen, 08 mai 2011 - 06:22 .

[AK404]

 Have come to the following conclusions.

1) Under most circumstances, cryo is for your squadmates, not Shepard; it's used both offensively and defensively, forcing the enemy to stop shooting via freezing.  With proper squadmate placement, complaints about frozen enemies falling back under cover are null and void.

One observation I have not seen on this thread is that, for the most part, 'smart' enemies will not shoot if their allies are in the line of fire, regardless of elevation.  Cryo is very handy for exploiting this.  Rush forward, freeze a target, use them as a human shield to duck for nearby cover, or kill them both.

As a vanguard, I use Inferno ammo on my shotgun and pistol.  You push forward with Charge, and liberal applications of cryo allow your sqadmates to safely move around as you constantly shift position.

As an infiltrator, I use heavy warp or disruptor ammo on my main guns, depending on the weapon and circumstances.  Cryo is used in a similar manner to the Vanguard, but it also allows you to move safely around as well.

As a solider, I use squad disruptor: combined with the soldier's sheer killing power, adrenaline rush renders cryo ammo redundant.

Modifié par AK404, 08 mai 2011 - 06:33 .

[Samurai_Wahoo]

Personally, I believe Cryo ammo to be the best ammo in the game for these reasons....
1) It's constant CC from the team

2) Teammates can actually be decent closers with weapons.

3) I use the squad to strip defenses. Squad powers will always be up to strip defenses due to little need for Pull or CC powers.

4) Anything to stop blitzing enemies is a good thing for me.

5) Squad weapon fire still will strip defenses really well, not great compared to certain specific ammo, but defenses are not a problem when the squad brings there own bag of skills. I always have two area Warps/Overloads on a squad, so gun fire is not needed to break up defenses.

[IMNWME]

Squad Cryo is ah-mazing. You give up Warp Bombs (due to the Pull glitch), but get free CC. Free! No cd required!

[KodiakAsh]

Personally I just stick to Disruptor/Inferno/Warp squad ammo and call it a day. If something is down to health, it's already dead.

[amcnow]

Samurai_Wahoo wrote...

Personally, I believe Cryo ammo to be the best ammo in the game for these reasons....
1) It's constant CC from the team

2) Teammates can actually be decent closers with weapons.

3) I use the squad to strip defenses. Squad powers will always be up to strip defenses due to little need for Pull or CC powers.

4) Anything to stop blitzing enemies is a good thing for me.

5) Squad weapon fire still will strip defenses really well, not great compared to certain specific ammo, but defenses are not a problem when the squad brings there own bag of skills. I always have two area Warps/Overloads on a squad, so gun fire is not needed to break up defenses.

You just listed 5 reasons (all of which are correct)... 

[lazuli]

KodiakAsh wrote...

If something is down to health, it's already dead.

Except, you know, when it isn't and it's still shooting at you.  Yeah, enemies on health are easy to disable.  But that doesn't mean your disabling abilities are always available when you need them.  An enemy on health is not instantly removed from the fight.

Thread.

[JaegerBane]

lazuli wrote...

KodiakAsh wrote...

If something is down to health, it's already dead.

Except, you know, when it isn't and it's still shooting at you.  Yeah, enemies on health are easy to disable.  But that doesn't mean your disabling abilities are always available when you need them.  An enemy on health is not instantly removed from the fight.

Thread.

No, but since both other class ammo abilities also crowd control as well as actually damage opponents, this isn't really reasoning in Cryo Ammo's favour. Hell, Inferno Ammo disables surrounding enemies without even needing to break through defences....

Add to the fact that enemies on health are at the mercy of things like Pull with it's not-very-slow 1.6 sec cooldown when upgraded, and it begs the question why you'd have such a problem having your CC abilities to hand.
Practically the only thing in Cryo Ammo's favour here is that it's enemy-agnostic. If there were plenty of levels where you face an even 50/50 mix of organics and synthetics on every encounter, I could understand such an argument....

But there isn't.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 09 mai 2011 - 03:31 .

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^Yeah, the main draw of CA is that it gives a catch-all cc effect against all but boss-type enemies. Incendiary and disruptor are arguably better against their respective enemy types, but for me, Cryo eliminates the need for these in situations where I'd rather focus on active powers and/or want to use the heavy evolutions of the other ammo powers.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 09 mai 2011 - 09:17 .

[AK404]

Well, if you think about the initial ammo choices you've been handed down, cryo ammo is the common link among the infiltrator, soldier, and vanguard. They're initially offered two ammo types (and the soldier gets three), and since warp, AP, and shredder don't give CC effects, we can disregard those for CC purposes. (We are arguing for CC effects, I hope?)

The reason I would argue for squad cryo for a vanguard is that squad incendiary may not be preferable to inferno. At this point, you're either tethered to a squadmate who has the squad version of the ammo you want, or you're not using special ammo at all.

It becomes a bit more problematic for classes with both disruptor and cryo ammo. The heavy version of disruptor isn't all that great unless you like watching exploding mechs, so the squad disruptor version is really nice for the overheat effect. However, cryo ammo, as nearly everyone has pointed out, is a catch-all, hit-it-and-quit-it ammo.

Me, I've been running with squad cryo ammo as an infiltrator, but I'm definitely going to give squad disruptor a go for my next game. If this thread is still around, I'll post my impressions.

Modifié par AK404, 09 mai 2011 - 09:46 .

[lolwut666]

I started using Cryo Ammo more often and I think it's quite good. Very fun, too. I love shattering enemies.

Cryo Ammo is a good alternative to Vanguards who don't have or don't want Zaeed on their teams in missions involving the geth.

[JaegerBane]

AK404 wrote...
The reason I would argue for squad cryo for a vanguard is that squad incendiary may not be preferable to inferno. At this point, you're either tethered to a squadmate who has the squad version of the ammo you want, or you're not using special ammo at all.

This isn't really clear-cut, however - Inferno Ammo has a 3 metre AoE than ignores defences, so it;s not like selecting this means that you're giving up CC effects. In fact I'd argue squad incendiary is only really worth choosing on a team mate when playing a class that doesn't have fire ammo themselves. With a fully auto weapon you can quite easily hold off hordes.

It becomes a bit more problematic for classes with both disruptor and cryo ammo. The heavy version of disruptor isn't all that great unless you like watching exploding mechs, so the squad disruptor version is really nice for the overheat effect. However, cryo ammo, as nearly everyone has pointed out, is a catch-all, hit-it-and-quit-it ammo.

Cryo definitely has an advantage in that it's a catch all - the problem is that it's not very controllable. Disruptor and Fire ammo keep their enemies upright, in full view and freely exploitable. Cryo ammo often leaves enemies lying behind cover and mucks up biotics. Even if you were doing a mission where you were facing enough of a mix where it's catch-all nature actually means something, you're still creating a situation where your enemies are harder to hit. Since the ammo itself does no extra damage, I can't honestly see the point in it.

[AK404]

Cryo is useful for squads that don't have a source of incendiary ammo taking on squads of melee mobs like varren, klixen, and husks, as well as mobs that don't panic when set on fire. (Sorry, can't remember that list off the top of my head).

Another purpose I've remembered is collectors. Sure, they're not very difficult to deal with, but a frozen collector who's been "Harbl'd" won't be ready for action until he's been thawed out. His life, of course, will be replaced with standard Harby defenses, but until he's been thawed out, you either have some valuable breathing time, or enough time to throw him off a platform.