243 réponses à ce sujet

[AudioEpics]

Honestly, I don't think any of this has to do with having high or low standards. I don't really believe in objective quality as an overriding factor when it comes to the appreciation of games, movies, books, art etc.
I think Batman Begins was probably better than The Dark Knight. Most people I know feel the other way around. Are my standards higher? Lower? I don't think so... I have different priorities. Both movies have flaws, but Batman Begins' flaws didn't bother me while The Dark Knight's did.

[LadyJaneGrey]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

The planet-scanning is actually one of the major turn-off points for me, but I guess I can live with it. *Sigh*, I'm going to Alpha-Tec (media outlest here) tomorrow anyway, I can just see myself walking out with a copy of ME 2.

I drive the Mako horribly too, I never manage to control that darn thing properly. I guess I'll take your wife's attitude and simply laugh about it. It might work who knows

She likes to hum the 'Dukes of Hazard' theme while she sends the Mako flipping all over the landscape (Which is a terrible US show from a few decades back).

Good woman; I like to wear my Daisy Dukes while the vehicle bounces around. 

[JoHnDoE14]

I mostly agree. I found DA2 amazing, although it could certainly be better.
And Kirkwall definately was a hell of a city.

[Sussurus]

I'm glad you liked.. sic loved the game.
Myself I love and dislike it, just as I loved and disliked DA:O at times and BG at times and every game I've ever played at times tbh.

I just hope between the love and hate, that both criticism and features that made people happy are taken in rationally and impartially.

Modifié par Sussurus, 03 mai 2011 - 01:13 .

[YourFunnyUncle]

I mostly agree with the OP. I'm on my third playthrough now and still enjoying myself.

I do however think that it should be made clear to Bioware/EA that rushing things isn't a good idea. An extra year of development to create more unique environments and expand and refine act 3 would've turned what was for me a very good game into an excellent game. I enjoyed the characters and the story but I really would've liked to know more about Meredith and Orsino, so that I could better understand the motivations for their actions at the end.

[Ottemis]

Agree with OP, nice post.
Great game, on that note I liked them both (and all including the ME line). And yes, all for differing reasons =)

Modifié par Ottemis, 03 mai 2011 - 01:23 .

[AkiKishi]

OP you were clearly taken by the tell element and completely missed the mediocrity of the show element of Kirkwall.

Text is nice and all, but we live in a visual age now in gaming and DA2 fails totally.

[LadyVaJedi]

I think it is sad that people who like the game are being insulted because of a game. This is like what is going on in the game the mage/templer war. I really enjoy the game myself. I just wish the PSN network wasn't down.

[astreqwerty]

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

AudioEpics wrote...

I mostly lurk around these forums. I read some posts here and there but always never post anything myself and this is definitely the first time I pick up a new topic.

I'm a tabletop RPG guy who's played almost all of Bioware's RPGs from the days of Baldur's Gate 1 onward. I was wary about Dragon Age II when I saw those first images... I really didn't know what to make of this game. It just looked so different. Then I saw what happened on these forums when the game was released and I was quite worried. One of my best friends had bought the game and his reaction was not very enthusiastic... I was seriously doubting whether I should get it now but eventually, being a fan of Bioware, I thought "it can't be that bad... I'll just have to try for myself". And so I finally got the game...

All I can say is... I'm blown away by it. Seriously, I love this game. I'm completely taken by surprise by just how much I love it, maybe even more than the first Dragon Age. I know a lot of you don't love it, or don't even like it and I respect that. In fact, I think I can understand what bothers many people about the way the story is told, the streamlined gameplay, the repetition of environments and so on. 
But personally, I adore the way the story is told, I enjoy the streamlined gameplay immensely (I do, don't shoot me) and no, I don't like the repetition of environments but it doesn't really bother that much me either.

The thing is... I loved Origins too (I finished another playthrough just a few weeks ago). I loved its epic story, its memorable characters, its sweeping grandeur. But Dragon Age II just makes me feel things I have never felt before in a game. I feel so much more attached to my Hawke, who is a much more rounded, believable character than any of my previous ones have been. I love how Kirkwall feels like a real place, at once frightening and awesome as well as a place I can call home. It's a world of its own, rife with conflict and anger, fraught with a deep history bathed in blood but also a haven for pioneers and adventurers. It's a CITY and not just a quest hub. I love my companions and how there is a real sense of family in this game. How you can wander about the place, pick up quests and go home in the evenings or hang out with Varric at the Hanged Man. 

There's just a magic present here, I can't quite explain it. Sure, I have my complaints... The recycled environments is one, the over the top gore in the fights may be another. I still think persistent gore looks ridiculous (I know I can turn it off) and that ordinary NPCs should run away when an epic clash is happening just a few feet away from them. I see those things, yes... But I won't go too deeply into them as they've all been mentioned on this forum elsewhere. There are also many things I'm really happy with, like the fluency and ferocity of combat and the rich, elegant sound design. But what I really want to communicate is the warmth, the humanity and the soul that I feel Dragon Age II has, even more so than the first game. And how I was completely taken by surprise when it comes to that.

So there it is. I just wanted to post this because I have the impression I'm in a minority here but I think it's worth mentioning and I kind of hope that Bioware reads this as I'm a creative person myself and I know how important it is to know you've reached at least a portion of your audience.

Hi Persephony.

i thought it was laidlaw....

[astreqwerty]

Persephone wrote...

Mad-Max90 wrote...

Oh the only thing keeping me here was jabba, thanks alot to whoever tried to ban him for no real reason other than his actually pretty witty comments, really I'd rather be an A-hole than an Internet crybaby any day, god some of you people get so sensitive for no real reason other than to cry and mope

I'll remind you of this the next time you are accused of ID fraud.

are we serious?...ID FRAUD!!! i told you CSI would destroy you in the end and you didnt listen

[Sabriana]

@ Cutlass

I have that thing about the EADM, and its DRM. I'm suffering from raging paranoia where DRM is concerned at the moment. Plus, I do like the physical copy, and as Bri stated in her/his post above, it's quite cheap over here now. I think the highest price is 15 euros, and the lowest is 8 euros.

I also remember "Dukes of Hazzard". I saw the show at my families house when I had my first ever visit to our US kin mumble-mumble years ago. Lordy, I couldn't understand a word they were saying, but that's a good idea. We have those car-chasing series too, it's an Autobahn cops show. I'll try that too, yeah.

Sisfist for Ali

And finally: *gives 'that' to Louis* (whatever 'that' is, lol)

[Maherbewett]

AudioEpics wrote...

As I said, I play tabletop RPGs as well, mostly as a GM but I've never been one to delve deep into the strategic aspects of them. So I'm not offended when someone says I don't understand the inner workings (even though I'm quite familiar with a number of tabletop RPG rulesets), if by that they mean I don't know how to use the ruleset to maximal efficiency. I've met countless tabletop gamers who are in it for the thrill of building strong characters and applying the best tactics in fights. Personally, I'm just a different type of gamer. That's probably part of why I enjoy DA2's combat a bit more.

As a fellow table top gamer and dice gamer I have also run into those dilemas. But I have to agree with you when I say that this game has alot to offer and if people want to get really down to it, there are very few games that do not repeat environments anymore with budget cuts. And with the birth of the patch as we go era we have seen many games come out with massive flaws only to be patched through updates and made incredible. many people forget that when dragon age origins came out it had issues to be resolved and they did beautifuly.

[Makariel]

@OP: great that you enjoyed the game :-)
I find it strange to read that your standards would be "too low" or other weirdness. Everyone's allowed to like or dislike a game. There is no central agency that determines which games are worthy of being loved and which are not.

I didn't intend to buy Dragon Age 2 after the enormous hate this title received. Still picked it up at a discount price. I really like it so far (now in Act 3), even though I don't like certain elements. I get tired of the re-used assets and the waves of enemies that are simply appearing out of nowhere were a really bad idea. The Arishok is one of the most annoying bosses I ever encountered in my gaming carreer. Simply giving a boss a ton of hitpoints doesn't make a fight more challenging. If his repertoire of attacks doesn't exceed that of your average robot master in Mega Man 1 it's just leading to a tedious experience.

However, I like the streamlining in terms of inventory (I would have called the last tab something else than "junk" though...) and the new talent trees are really neat. I find the melee combat also more enjoyable than in Origins. To make the Mabari a summoned creature was also a good idea. I never took the dog along in Origins.

Only thing I miss in terms of story is some overarching villain. Evil dudes show up here and there and die here and there. I would have really liked to see a nemesis to rise to power as antithesis to the champion during my time in Kirkwall for example. Plus I'd wished for some more conversations with my companions.

Modifié par Makariel, 03 mai 2011 - 02:48 .

[Mad-Max90]

Ummm...the only game I played in recent history that had any rehashed environments was dead space 2, but that was artfully done and only happened in areas that would actually make sense, it was a mall, but the art that was done there was vastly different than the exact same build of the same damn cave... I mean corridor

[Makariel]

Mad-Max90 wrote...

Ummm...the only game I played in recent history that had any rehashed environments was dead space 2, [...]

So you didn't play World of Warcraft yet? A lot of caves there look pretty similar... same with Oblivion and Fallout 3.
If you didn't play games that had any rehashed environments lately I'd argue you don't play a lot of games. ;-)

[Birdhive]

Nice post, OP. I'm in a creative field as well, and I think that what Bioware was striving for story and character-wise is a very complex and admirable goal. The game also made me feel intensely, deeply; it became very important to me in terms of how I thought about support, betrayal, conviction, action and ideals.

I'm on my fourth playthrough now, and I'm less enthralled and seeing a bit more of what some others complain about (false sense of choice primarily being the thing which annoys me), but to be fair, it took three and a half playthroughs--I also have one character waiting for the 1.03 patch so that I can make Anders fight with the [spoilers].

Origins is a great game, which I still love (I feel like I need to say that to show that I'm not a noob to Thedas). I'm currently enjoying The Witcher for the first time (I was hipped to it by various forum remarks), but the plotline of DA II felt important to me in a way the others didn't/don't. The Blight/Archdemon plot of Origins was engrossing, but didn't feel larger than the game environment to me, while DA II's plotline being tightly hinged on some of the characters made it feel relevant to real life, the way theater can, and its issues relate to various contemporary analogies quite well. It may be that some of the linearity I'm currently seeing was necessary to create the genuine surprise and shock I felt in my first experience with game/plot events.

When I used to play D&D back in the '80s (er, yeah), I was less interested in the fighting and dungeon-crawling than I was in character building, personality, and place. That may reflect a potential essential difference between the haters and the lovers. I do enjoy DA II's combat, and very surprisingly find the persistent gore to be amusing in it's absurdity. The way all enemies turn into some random exploding bald dude upon death kind of cracks me up.

Anyway, sad that this needs to be said, but you are not alone!

[Elhanan]

Makariel wrote...

@OP: great that you enjoyed the game :-)
I find it strange to read that your standards would be "too low" or other weirdness. Everyone's allowed to like or dislike a game. There is no central agency that determines which games are worthy of being loved and which are not.

I didn't intend to buy Dragon Age 2 after the enormous hate this title received. Still picked it up at a discount price. I really like it so far (now in Act 3), even though I don't like certain elements. I get tired of the re-used assets and the waves of enemies that are simply appearing out of nowhere were a really bad idea. The Arishok is one of the most annoying bosses I ever encountered in my gaming carreer. Simply giving a boss a ton of hitpoints doesn't make a fight more challenging. If his repertoire of attacks doesn't exceed that of your average robot master in Mega Man 1 it's just leading to a tedious experience.

However, I like the streamlining in terms of inventory (I would have called the last tab something else than "junk" though...) and the new talent trees are really neat. I find the melee combat also more enjoyable than in Origins. To make the Mabari a summoned creature was also a good idea. I never took the dog along in Origins.

Only thing I miss in terms of story is some overarching villain. Evil dudes show up here and there and die here and there. I would have really liked to see a nemesis to rise to power as antithesis to the champion during my time in Kirkwall for example. Plus I'd wished for some more conversations with my companions.

Mak; meet Archie; Archie; Mak!

[Mad-Max90]

I don't play wow, and when you think about it, oblivion and fall out3 can get away with some rehashed environments, they are a huge sandbox game, they also have a lot more variety than dragon age 2 so please don't bring in games that make use of giant maps and even more than just one cave and one basement and the odd dockhouse, so don't try and bring those games into the same league of dragon age 2.

[Elhanan]

Mad-Max90 wrote...

I don't play wow, and when you think about it, oblivion and fall out3 can get away with some rehashed environments, they are a huge sandbox game, they also have a lot more variety than dragon age 2 so please don't bring in games that make use of giant maps and even more than just one cave and one basement and the odd dockhouse, so don't try and bring those games into the same league of dragon age 2.

Does anyone else imagine Yosemite Sam? Just me?

[Mad-Max90]

I prefer foghorn leghorn, but that's just me

[Lesdeth]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Lesdeth wrote...

Sounds like another individual who didn't understand the mechanics of DAO enough to make combat better.

Sounds like another individual who hasn't noticed that the majority of DA II's combat mechanics are the same as DA:O's.

No they aren't...  Exploding bodies?  Leaping tall buildings in a single bound?  Wave system?  Restricted Weapons for classes?  Insanely long Cooldowns?  Less spells and abilities?  Hitting auto attack more than anything else because of the ridiculous knockback?  Ninja thugs?  Seriously...

[The Metalion]

AudioEpics wrote...

I mostly lurk around these forums. I read some posts here and there but always never post anything myself and this is definitely the first time I pick up a new topic.

I'm a tabletop RPG guy who's played almost all of Bioware's RPGs from the days of Baldur's Gate 1 onward. I was wary about Dragon Age II when I saw those first images... I really didn't know what to make of this game. It just looked so different. Then I saw what happened on these forums when the game was released and I was quite worried. One of my best friends had bought the game and his reaction was not very enthusiastic... I was seriously doubting whether I should get it now but eventually, being a fan of Bioware, I thought "it can't be that bad... I'll just have to try for myself". And so I finally got the game...

All I can say is... I'm blown away by it. Seriously, I love this game. I'm completely taken by surprise by just how much I love it, maybe even more than the first Dragon Age. I know a lot of you don't love it, or don't even like it and I respect that. In fact, I think I can understand what bothers many people about the way the story is told, the streamlined gameplay, the repetition of environments and so on. 
But personally, I adore the way the story is told, I enjoy the streamlined gameplay immensely (I do, don't shoot me) and no, I don't like the repetition of environments but it doesn't really bother that much me either.

The thing is... I loved Origins too (I finished another playthrough just a few weeks ago). I loved its epic story, its memorable characters, its sweeping grandeur. But Dragon Age II just makes me feel things I have never felt before in a game. I feel so much more attached to my Hawke, who is a much more rounded, believable character than any of my previous ones have been. I love how Kirkwall feels like a real place, at once frightening and awesome as well as a place I can call home. It's a world of its own, rife with conflict and anger, fraught with a deep history bathed in blood but also a haven for pioneers and adventurers. It's a CITY and not just a quest hub. I love my companions and how there is a real sense of family in this game. How you can wander about the place, pick up quests and go home in the evenings or hang out with Varric at the Hanged Man. 

There's just a magic present here, I can't quite explain it. Sure, I have my complaints... The recycled environments is one, the over the top gore in the fights may be another. I still think persistent gore looks ridiculous (I know I can turn it off) and that ordinary NPCs should run away when an epic clash is happening just a few feet away from them. I see those things, yes... But I won't go too deeply into them as they've all been mentioned on this forum elsewhere. There are also many things I'm really happy with, like the fluency and ferocity of combat and the rich, elegant sound design. But what I really want to communicate is the warmth, the humanity and the soul that I feel Dragon Age II has, even more so than the first game. And how I was completely taken by surprise when it comes to that.

So there it is. I just wanted to post this because I have the impression I'm in a minority here but I think it's worth mentioning and I kind of hope that Bioware reads this as I'm a creative person myself and I know how important it is to know you've reached at least a portion of your audience.

Well said.  I agree it's a great game despite its obvious flaws.

You're not in the minority, though.  It's just that the haters are louder and like to complain more.  Most of the replies below aren't even related to what you said.  Just a bunch of pointless bickering.  A lot of conversation here is turned into bickering.  That's why you feel you're in the minority.

[Revakeane]

I'm sorry to disagree with you OP, but it didn't feel like Kirkwall was alive to me. True, it had a lot more character than say, Denerim, and the concentration of the story on the single city did make it seem a lot more like a city than a quest hub. However, Kirkwall didn't seem to have a strong cultural identity. The people looked and sounded much like the Fereldens did in DAO. Besides the Messre/Serrah thing, and some aesthetic differences, I didn't get a sense of Kirkwall's individual identity; there wasn't a tangible sense of uniqueness to me, I guess. Tbh, I was disappointed in Kirkwall's blandness, after a while, especially since the environments are recycled, I just got really bored of the city and wanted someplace else to explore (no the Wounded Coast and Sundermount do not count as alternative places to explore). Similarly, the lack of change in Kirkwall throughout the allegedly extremely important decade our Hawke is in was very disappointing as well. She/He does all these things of earthshaking importance, and the city hardly changes. That lack of progression really sapped the life of Kirkwall for me.

But I do agree with you that Hawke was a very good step in terms of constructing a player character that was well-rounded and well, alive. The voiced protagonist was a good thing. However, I was quite irritated when I could only choose from 3 dialogue options most of the time, and that choosing different tacts kinda made my Hawke seem schizophrenic.

I did enjoy DA2, but I don't think it was as good as DAO. DAO seriously blew my mind away with its intricacies and soul-gripping twists. I know DA2 had its merits, but it just fell below the standard set by DAO in my mind.

[CemAeuducan]

First play origins then play da2.
now you are stuck in kirkloading, trying to understand why you "are final effect 2"

[Elhanan]

Lesdeth wrote...

No they aren't...  Exploding bodies?  Leaping tall buildings in a single bound?  Wave system?  Restricted Weapons for classes?  Insanely long Cooldowns?  Less spells and abilities?  Hitting auto attack more than anything else because of the ridiculous knockback?  Ninja thugs?  Seriously...

Exploding bodies; check.

Leaping tall buildings? Guessing this means Dodge moves. check

Wave system; both had it (eg; Broodmother, Archdemon, etc); DA2 more frequently.

Restricted weapons; both had it, but DA2 had even more, I believe.

Longer cooldowns AND shorter ones, too.

Less skills, as these are now inherit in the system; but both Talents and Spells seemed equally plentiful for non-Epic play.

Difficulty slider; on both (try non-Nightmare for less knockbacks, omit Friendly Fire, etc). Your choice.

Ninja thugs; guess this means stealthy warriors dropping from above. I soooo want to say both, and point to a falling Riordin, but check.

Seriously; well maybe only a tad, but I gotta be me....