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[Persephone]

Cody211282 wrote...

"It's a CITY and not just a quest hub."

If by that you mean an area that disperses quests with static never changing environments and NPCs that your decisions have no effect on then yes it is a city. But by that definition so is the intro. Honestly the Normandy felt more alive then Kirkwall did and I'm talking post collector kidnapping.

That's...very exaggerated. I for one thought Kirkwall was far more alive than Denerim.:happy:

[AudioEpics]

I feel it's a city, more than any other city I've visited in a game, because there is a real sense of history and structure to the place. It has evolved over many centuries and it is currently in a complicated political situation that isn't just there "because". Many of these little quests you get are somehow related to larger underlying problems the city has to deal with. Other cities that I can remember in games don't do this. Sure, in Oblivion you have a corrupt guard in Imperial City but it's not indicative of anything. It's just an isolated event. In Kirkwall, it feels like there are real issues that are related. Having more NPCs walking about and living their lives like in a Bethesda game would have been nice, but I've discovered that, to me at least, this sense of context that Kirkwall provides is more important to making the world feel real.

[Cody211282]

Persephone wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

"It's a CITY and not just a quest hub."

If by that you mean an area that disperses quests with static never changing environments and NPCs that your decisions have no effect on then yes it is a city. But by that definition so is the intro. Honestly the Normandy felt more alive then Kirkwall did and I'm talking post collector kidnapping.

That's...very exaggerated. I for one thought Kirkwall was far more alive than Denerim.:happy:

At least in Denerim I could talk to people, in Kirkwall I cant even talk to my teammates unless its for the tri-yearly get together. how the hell did they go from being able to talk to multiple people in a small area(the normandy in ME2) to noone unless the story demands in (DA2), and even the conversations you have are "streamlined" to ether get you in bed or get you back to pressing the awesome button. Case in point, in DA:O Liliana was a bard for many years and had picked up some storied, to point this out after a certain amout of time and friendship she would tell you the stories she liked, in DA2 you have a few people tell you Verric is a storyteller but you never even once hear him tell one story. In DA:O you could talk to Morigan about growing up in the wilds and visiting towns when she was younger and she would tell you some stories about Flemith as well, Merril on the other hand tells you about a mirror and why shes trying to fix it, thats about all the background you can get out of her.

Instead of taking the strong points of the first game and fixing up the weaker areas as well as throwing in a few new things(you know like any decent sequel dones) they decided to gut everything and just throw partical effects on it in hopes that people would preorder.

[AudioEpics]

Okay What more can I say I guess it's a subjective thing.

[Persephone]

AudioEpics wrote...

I feel it's a city, more than any other city I've visited in a game, because there is a real sense of history and structure to the place. It has evolved over many centuries and it is currently in a complicated political situation that isn't just there "because". Many of these little quests you get are somehow related to larger underlying problems the city has to deal with. Other cities that I can remember in games don't do this. Sure, in Oblivion you have a corrupt guard in Imperial City but it's not indicative of anything. It's just an isolated event. In Kirkwall, it feels like there are real issues that are related. Having more NPCs walking about and living their lives like in a Bethesda game would have been nice, but I've discovered that, to me at least, this sense of context that Kirkwall provides is more important to making the world feel real.

This and details like:

Hawke being greeted/talked to differently as she rises socially. (I esp. dig the Champion greetings)

Guards greeting Aveline if she's with me. People chatting up Izzy at the Docks. Mages referring to Alrik's fate after "Dissent" at the Gallows. (The Gallows originally struck me as a gorgeous place...until more and more abuse came to light via mages/tranquil talking to Hawke as she passed by. Recruits & Templars gossiping about Meredith...) Nobles talking about the Qunari at/around the Viscount's Keep... Hearing NPCs referring to things Hawke did as she passed es by, patrons talking about the Champion/The Hero Of Ferelden at the Hanged Man, small details like that. In Denerim the few NPCs I did meet were rather quiet. Not even recruiting the Regent/Hero Of River Dane got a reaction out of them!

Modifié par Persephone, 06 mai 2011 - 10:30 .

[AudioEpics]

Hm, maybe there are more opportunities to have conversations in Origins and longer conversations to be had that provided more information, but they seemed to mean less to me than the ones in Dragon Age II. In Origins I often felt like a journalist or a therapist interviewing people about their past. In Dragon Age II, the conversations feel more like actual conversations and part of this is the fact that Hawke has a family and a home of his own in this town. There is also a greater sense of cohesion within the group, like the way Varric is so protective of Merril. Their conversations also suggest they lead lives outside of their adventures with Hawke. All of those little things did a lot for me to make it feel engaging. It was a breath of fresh air... Of course, I wouldn't mind to have more :-)

[Cody211282]

AudioEpics wrote...

Hm, maybe there are more opportunities to have conversations in Origins and longer conversations to be had that provided more information, but they seemed to mean less to me than the ones in Dragon Age II. In Origins I often felt like a journalist or a therapist interviewing people about their past. In Dragon Age II, the conversations feel more like actual conversations and part of this is the fact that Hawke has a family and a home of his own in this town. There is also a greater sense of cohesion within the group, like the way Varric is so protective of Merril. Their conversations also suggest they lead lives outside of their adventures with Hawke. All of those little things did a lot for me to make it feel engaging. It was a breath of fresh air... Of course, I wouldn't mind to have more :-)

I do like that they at least acknowledge other compainions when you are talking to them, but honestly the relationship between Hawke and his compainions feels more like employer/employee  at a new job then friends, sure durring your breaks you  hear them talking to their friends/coworkers, but the only time you can even get close to personal with them is durring the yearly personel review.

In DA:O the team felt like it had no life outside of killing things and hanging around with the warden, and for that I think it worked well, you got to know your teammates to the point were you could pick out gift for them. In DA2 it's almost like your obsering your compainions becoming frends were as your kept at arms length unless someone needs to get laied or a place to sleep.

Modifié par Cody211282, 06 mai 2011 - 10:36 .

[Never]

I agree with a lot of your points OP, but I never felt connected to my Lady Hawke. Not like Shepard anyways. Lady Hawke sure has an amazing voice though

[AkiKishi]

Limiting where you could talk to your companions was just dumb really. It's more of a technical issue with regards to the engine and cinematics. But still incredbily stupid that you had to be in a certain place just to have a non personal conversation.

Cody211282 wrote...
In DA:O the team felt like it had no life outside of killing things and hanging around with the warden, and for that I think it worked well, you got to know your teammates to the point were you could pick out gift for them. In DA2 it's almost like your obsering your compainions becoming frends were as your kept at arms length unless someone needs to get laied or a place to sleep.

Because they don't. They did however have lives prior to that which you can talk about extensively. Theres not really enough time to have a "life" in DA , it's only a year long. It's much the same in ME/2 even when you split the party they don't go off any do other things (logically because they don't know when you will call on them).

Overall I prefer the Suikoden model.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 06 mai 2011 - 11:02 .

[Cody211282]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Limiting where you could talk to your companions was just dumb really. It's more of a technical issue with regards to the engine and cinematics. But still incredbily stupid that you had to be in a certain place just to have a non personal conversation.

That doesnt even bug me, that fact that you had a total of 6 maybe 7 semi-short conversations with them does, it's almost like the dexs didn't know the charecters are the strong point of bioware games(and the reason I keep buying their stuff) and were trying to get you away from them and into more fighting(because evedently they think fighting yet another gang that pops ou of thin air is fun). It almost feels like  they hurry you threw the good parts and make the bad parts drag on, thats the main problem with most the game.

[AkiKishi]

Cody211282 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Limiting where you could talk to your companions was just dumb really. It's more of a technical issue with regards to the engine and cinematics. But still incredbily stupid that you had to be in a certain place just to have a non personal conversation.

That doesnt even bug me, that fact that you had a total of 6 maybe 7 semi-short conversations with them does, it's almost like the dexs didn't know the charecters are the strong point of bioware games(and the reason I keep buying their stuff) and were trying to get you away from them and into more fighting(because evedently they think fighting yet another gang that pops ou of thin air is fun). It almost feels like  they hurry you threw the good parts and make the bad parts drag on, thats the main problem with most the game.

You may well be right. If you take an ES game, the characters are not that great, but there is a lot of game there. In the case of Bioware the plot,story,characters and game are intertwined. Yet ES games do about twice as well as Bioware games.

In DA2 the companions felt like questgivers and combat support to me. In DA they felt far more organic as you talked to them.

[aquaticidioticus]

Elhanan wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Yes. These lovely citizens really made the city seem alive.

*snip*

And let me just clarify my post by saying I didn't hate DA:2 but it could have been a better game had it not been rushed and some of the game elements not as simplified.  It will always get a 7/8 in my book. Story DLC might change that.

Ahhh! The Bros Grim.....

A bit late to the party...  but I want to add the Nosferatu elves that lurk Kirkwall.  *shudder*  This is the moment I wish I played on the PC for a well-timed screenshot.  Oh well.  
On another note:  I am sort of in the middle with this game.  There are certain elements I loved (the characters grew on me despite the fact that you did not get to interact with them as much as I would like and *some* of the new combat mechanics were pretty cool), but there were just other elements that irked me.  Story-based DLC's (that are carefully worked on...and given enough frakkin' time) and perhaps a good expansion will really save the title for me and potentially boost me from the sidelines.  I'm crossing my fingers BW... pleeeeaaassseee don't disappoint!

[fightright2]

aquaticidioticus wrote...

.


A bit late to the party...  but I want to add the Nosferatu elves that lurk Kirkwall.  *shudder*  This is the moment I wish I played on the PC for a well-timed screenshot.  Oh well.  
On another note:  I am sort of in the middle with this game.  There are certain elements I loved (the characters grew on me despite the fact that you did not get to interact with them as much as I would like and *some* of the new combat mechanics were pretty cool), but there were just other elements that irked me.  Story-based DLC's (that are carefully worked on...and given enough frakkin' time) and perhaps a good expansion will really save the title for me and potentially boost me from the sidelines.  I'm crossing my fingers BW... pleeeeaaassseee don't disappoint!

http://social.biowar...844/5#7216398:D

[JabbaDaHutt30]

Persephone wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

"It's a CITY and not just a quest hub."

If by that you mean an area that disperses quests with static never changing environments and NPCs that your decisions have no effect on then yes it is a city. But by that definition so is the intro. Honestly the Normandy felt more alive then Kirkwall did and I'm talking post collector kidnapping.

That's...very exaggerated. I for one thought Kirkwall was far more alive than Denerim.:happy:

Big improvement there, 'phone.

But not really.

Modifié par JabbaDaHutt30, 06 mai 2011 - 06:08 .

[aquaticidioticus]

fightright2 wrote...

aquaticidioticus wrote...

.


A bit late to the party...  but I want to add the Nosferatu elves that lurk Kirkwall.  *shudder*  This is the moment I wish I played on the PC for a well-timed screenshot.  Oh well.  
On another note:  I am sort of in the middle with this game.  There are certain elements I loved (the characters grew on me despite the fact that you did not get to interact with them as much as I would like and *some* of the new combat mechanics were pretty cool), but there were just other elements that irked me.  Story-based DLC's (that are carefully worked on...and given enough frakkin' time) and perhaps a good expansion will really save the title for me and potentially boost me from the sidelines.  I'm crossing my fingers BW... pleeeeaaassseee don't disappoint!

http://social.biowar...844/5#7216398:D

Poor Orana... Oriana?... eh, whatever.  Her face trumps me wanting to help her EVERYTIME.  Anyway... those aren't the elves I am referring to.  I'm talking about the voiceless NPC's around Kirkwall, particularly the bald ones.  They are nightmare fuel.  But the pictures you linked definitely prove my point.  

[DungeonLord]

Congrats on liking the game. Thankfully for EA and Bioware some people are easily pleased, even by crap that offends the majority of players.

[AudioEpics]

Thankfully for me I'm not easily baited

[Persephone]

AudioEpics wrote...

Thankfully for me I'm not easily baited

Personally, I like my crap much more if it has the Bioware Logo on it. I am a Biodrone, after all.

[AudioEpics]

Persephone wrote...

AudioEpics wrote...

Thankfully for me I'm not easily baited

Personally, I like my crap much more if it has the Bioware Logo on it. I am a Biodrone, after all.

I have low standards, any crap will do
Nothing like playing with some crap to unwind after a day's work... Ahhhh...

[neppakyo]

Persephone wrote...

AudioEpics wrote...

Thankfully for me I'm not easily baited

Personally, I like my crap much more if it has the Bioware Logo on it. I am a Biodrone, after all.

Yeah, I see it tattoo'd on your forehead

*runs away*