72 réponses à ce sujet

[Katamariguy]

 Why do shields resist biotics? Mass altering fields dont exactly have kinetic energy. Pull, maybe, but warp?<_<

[Slayer299]

They shouldn't at all. Kinetic Barriers (shields) are there to block fast moving projectiles like bullets, so Biotics shouldn't be affected by them at all (ala ME1).

But I guess its a game play thing which doesn't pay any attention to their own laws of how things work.

[didymos1120]

There's no in-universe explanation. It's purely a part of the gameplay mechanics: health can't be damaged until defenses are stripped. Same reason varren bites and powdered biotic drugs damage them.

Modifié par didymos1120, 03 mai 2011 - 01:08 .

[didymos1120]

Slayer299 wrote...

But I guess its a game play thing which doesn't pay any attention to their own laws of how things work.

Biotics never have.  They just ignored a bit more in ME2.

[ItsThat01Guy]

Why does every room in every building in the galaxy have chest-high walls and med-kits?

Gameplay balancing. Its just not fair if Jack is tossing YMIR mechs around and Tali is just standing there, talking to her useless combat drone.

[Da Mecca]

That's not gameplay balancing.

That's uncreative design mostly.

Except the medkits, that's gameplay balancing.

[termokanden]

It is balancing.

Doesn't really make sense otherwise, but it certainly does from that perspective.

[Misnomer]

I would make sense for Biotic Barriers to offer protection against Biotics, but certainly not Kinetic Barriers (Shields).

Also weird is that shotguns aren't highly effective against shields, due to high amounts of simultaneous projectiles, since shields use projectile detection to pinpoint and stop incoming attacks.

Modifié par Misnomer, 03 mai 2011 - 02:08 .

[lolwut666]

I wish they'd keep it close to the lore, but I'm willing to overlook this kind of thing for the sake of good gameplay.

@yorkj86

I think Jack is great in combat.

[termokanden]

Shotguns ARE effective against shields when you get the upgrade.

But if you want to go into this level of detail, there are a lot of little things you can pick apart.

As for Jack, technically she's great on the lower difficulty levels but not on insanity. But no that doesn't really have much to do with the character.

[lolwut666]

Shotguns are always effective against shields, and even more once you buy the upgrade.

By default, the Scimitar, the Katana and the Geth Plasma Shotgun inflict 1.5 damage against shields, and the Eviscerator and the Claymore also inflict extra damage against shilds; not as much, though.

@termokanden

I think she is great on Insanity. Pull is a great power, and she can cast it very quickly thanks to her passive ability.

Squad Warp Ammo is also great.

[termokanden]

Actually that's quite similar to Jacob. He has Pull and Incendiary Ammo (which is sometimes a bit better than Warp). No she's not bad.

[Ahglock]

While it is a gameplay balance issue, I am not sure it was handled well overall. Difficulty increases for combat classes don't work the same as for the powers classes. And with tech armor the sentinel is a combat class in disguise. This isn't a great analogy(when is one great?) but, it is like you go into a 5 story building, you start off on ground floor causal, there is 1st floor normal, 2nd floor veteran, 3rd floor hard core, and 4th floor insanity.

Combat classes take the elevator too their floor and the other classes take the stairs. You might know you went up floors with a combat class but the change was fairly smooth and you don't notice the difference that much. When you take the stairs you notice each level change but it might be more rewarding.

We can say it is balance, but assuming they went right through defenses pull/warp bomb to a group still wont be much if any faster than charge spam/claymore guy or AR weapon of choice soldier etc on insanity. Outside a couple tough enemies the difficulty is about the same. Something should be done to get the combat classes on the stairs IMO,, put an out of order sign on the elevator.

[Dave666]

Ahglock wrote...

While it is a gameplay balance issue, I am not sure it was handled well overall. Difficulty increases for combat classes don't work the same as for the powers classes. And with tech armor the sentinel is a combat class in disguise. This isn't a great analogy(when is one great?) but, it is like you go into a 5 story building, you start off on ground floor causal, there is 1st floor normal, 2nd floor veteran, 3rd floor hard core, and 4th floor insanity.

Combat classes take the elevator too their floor and the other classes take the stairs. You might know you went up floors with a combat class but the change was fairly smooth and you don't notice the difference that much. When you take the stairs you notice each level change but it might be more rewarding.

We can say it is balance, but assuming they went right through defenses pull/warp bomb to a group still wont be much if any faster than charge spam/claymore guy or AR weapon of choice soldier etc on insanity. Outside a couple tough enemies the difficulty is about the same. Something should be done to get the combat classes on the stairs IMO,, put an out of order sign on the elevator.

Thats actually not a bad analogy at all. 

[dreman9999]

Geth barrier in ME1(The hexigon shields)stopped biotics.

The council/Alliance goes to war with the heritic Geth that has that tech.

The coucil/Alliance mesteriously get new biotic stopping tech.

[dreman9999]

Ahglock wrote...

While it is a gameplay balance issue, I am not sure it was handled well overall. Difficulty increases for combat classes don't work the same as for the powers classes. And with tech armor the sentinel is a combat class in disguise. This isn't a great analogy(when is one great?) but, it is like you go into a 5 story building, you start off on ground floor causal, there is 1st floor normal, 2nd floor veteran, 3rd floor hard core, and 4th floor insanity.

Combat classes take the elevator too their floor and the other classes take the stairs. You might know you went up floors with a combat class but the change was fairly smooth and you don't notice the difference that much. When you take the stairs you notice each level change but it might be more rewarding.

We can say it is balance, but assuming they went right through defenses pull/warp bomb to a group still wont be much if any faster than charge spam/claymore guy or AR weapon of choice soldier etc on insanity. Outside a couple tough enemies the difficulty is about the same. Something should be done to get the combat classes on the stairs IMO,, put an out of order sign on the elevator.

Really, not a good analogy. Vanguards when the everyone first go the game were thought to be too week for insanity and the harder setting. Solder were thought to like the defence for it and Infiltrator was thought to be the greatest class for insanity. Now it's almost flipped. We know how great vanguard is, how to deal with solders, and even how to do a close up infiltrator. The combat classes except Infiltrators and sentinals had to take the same stair way.

Modifié par dreman9999, 03 mai 2011 - 04:44 .

[dreman9999]

yorkj86 wrote...

Oh, I wish people were as reasonable as the people in this thread, when they **** about Jack being a bad character because she sucks in combat.

She doesn't....You just have to invest in the right powers........Area lift field, max Biotic passives, and mid the rest.

[CajNatalie]

The hexagon shields don't work the same as personal kinetic barriers.

Hexagon shields are constantly active solid walls that you can lean against.
A kinetic barrier does nothing unless an ultra-high-velocity projectile goes through it's field, then it activates and stops the projectile.

That's exactly why shields stopping biotics will never make sense. There's no ultra-high-velocity projectile, just a plot-orb that was never there before* but it certainly doesn't travel fast enough to make a kinetic barrier do its thing. Otherwise in this logic if you stormed in to a wall, you'd get your shields popping up bouncing you away from diving in to cover, and some other odd scenarios of mid-velocity movements making the shield activate.

I've turned off shields blocking powers in the .ini (note that this is a universal switch that also stops armor and barriers from doing the same - but any enemy without a Health bar... and the Liara DLC boss... is still resistant).
I mean, it's not like I can wave my arm and 5 mercs instantly take flight anymore... they did scale biotics down to single targets only (unless you pick the multi-hit upgrade, which at most catches only 3, but usually just 2), so I'm comfortable with doing this.

*: I actually have no issue with orb-biotics... the terrorists and enemy asari used them in ME1, and it allows for interesting around-the-corner attacks, so whatever... Shepard has a new implant, so that could make them work differently.

Modifié par CajNatalie, 03 mai 2011 - 04:56 .

[Ahglock]

dreman9999 wrote...


Really, not a good analogy. Vanguards when the everyone first go the game were thought to be too week for insanity and the harder setting. Solder were thought to like the defence for it and Infiltrator was thought to be the greatest class for insanity. Now it's almost flipped. We know how great vanguard is, how to deal with solders, and even how to do a close up infiltrator. The combat classes except Infiltrators and sentinals had to take the same stair way.

Sure the difficulty change had the same effect it has on everyone.  The enemies are 100% accurate etc.  You notice the change but it just isn't that dramatic from one level to the next.  At first when you don't know how shields etc. work the 100% accurate part makes everone think you need to hug cover constantly.  It was the same for every class.

 But with the vanguard once you realise one shot=one kill and charge regenerates every 4 seconds and it is rare for any group to be able to fully take you down in 4 seconds you know it doesn't matter what difficulty you are on.  You charge, you OSOK, reload, OSOK, charge, OSOK and look the group you attacked is dead.  You can do the same exact thing without changing anything about your game on every difficutly level. While it might be a bit tougher on different levels, the game play and strategies just don't change to adapt to them for 4 classes.  How you will handle a gorup of 3 hiding behind cover is the same on all difficutlies for those classes.  

If you want to use your biotics the adept has to change his game play.  It isn't even a big step, you just use a squad member to strip defenses, or you use your guns, or singularity to pin and strip over time your defenses etc.  But something has happened to you and how you work, more than the basics of difficulty increases(more health, more damage done to you). The combat classes need that something, where they have to use their abilities differently on different difficutly levels.  Maybe it is having more enemies so a charge spam wont work as often, or maybe using the incorrect weapon in the rock, paper, scissors game penalizes you heavily instead of just not giving you a beneift.  

[Kronner]

Yet another person who does not understand that shields block biotics for gameplay reasons, and shields are present (in a significant way) only on Hardcore and Insanity. You should realize that "Normal" is the baseline experience. It's getting really tiresome.

Personally, I would be bored to death if there were not difficulty modes like Insanity in Mass Effect 2.

Modifié par Kronner, 03 mai 2011 - 05:03 .

[Ahglock]

CajNatalie wrote...

The hexagon shields don't work the same as personal kinetic barriers.

Hexagon shields are constantly active solid walls that you can lean against.
A kinetic barrier does nothing unless an ultra-high-velocity projectile goes through it's field, then it activates and stops the projectile.

That's exactly why shields stopping biotics will never make sense. There's no ultra-high-velocity projectile, just a plot-orb that was never there before* but it certainly doesn't travel fast enough to make a kinetic barrier do its thing. Otherwise in this logic if you stormed in to a wall, you'd get your shields popping up bouncing you away from diving in to cover, and some other odd scenarios of mid-velocity movements making the shield activate.

I've turned off shields blocking powers in the .ini (note that this is a universal switch that also stops armor and barriers from doing the same - but any enemy without a Health bar... and the Liara DLC boss... is still resistant).
I mean, it's not like I can wave my arm and 5 mercs instantly take flight anymore... they did scale biotics down to single targets only (unless you pick the multi-hit upgrade, which at most catches only 3, but usually just 2), so I'm comfortable with doing this.

*: I actually have no issue with orb-biotics... the terrorists and enemy asari used them in ME1, and it allows for interesting around-the-corner attacks, so whatever... Shepard has a new implant, so that could make them work differently.

I'll point out even in ME1 your armor protected you against botics.  Not sure if it was the shield part of it, or some other part but it protected you.  I don't think lore wise it is such a huge leap to say now that protection level is increased to 100% when your defenses are still powered.  

[Bozorgmehr]

Even on Casual some enemies have defenses (Harbinger, Scions, Elites etc), the only reason they have is to make powers worth your while. Why would anyone ever use anything else but Pull or Throw when they affect all enemies? On Casual powers like Overload, Warp, Incinerate etc are still useful against the occasional protected enemy. It's all about gameplay and balance.

[CajNatalie]

@ahglock: The ME1 protection against biotics was against biotic damage I believe - so just Warp.
The only biotics I've ever seen the enemies use in ME1 are 'Ragdoll' and Warp... ragdoll does no damage other than the bullets you take while flailing on the floor helplessly - but that's dealt with by your Damage Protection factor in armor.

Modifié par CajNatalie, 03 mai 2011 - 06:40 .

[tonnactus]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Even on Casual some enemies have defenses (Harbinger, Scions, Elites etc), the only reason they have is to make powers worth your while. Why would anyone ever use anything else but Pull or Throw when they affect all enemies? On Casual powers like Overload, Warp, Incinerate etc are still useful against the occasional protected enemy. It's all about gameplay and balance.

Before Lair of Shadowbroker came out and stasis became available,the adept was behind an engineer regarding crowd control.Because the engineer was able to distract/control enemies like ymirs mechs and geth primes with his powers what the adept couldnt do.At least the heavy version of powers like pull and throw should affect such enemies for a short duration(no,not the little shield draining,hold them in place or push them back)
Who actually evolve powers that could be evolved in area versions to heavy version instead.Its not worth it.