72 réponses à ce sujet

[tonnactus]

Kronner wrote...

Yet another person who does not understand that shields block biotics for gameplay reasons,

Mass Effect is supposed to be an rpg series.Gameplay hasnt to be more important then lore and immersion.
And they are for sure better option to make a game challenging on harder difficulties then this uninspired crap.

The protection system is just an easy way out that not required much effort.

[Kronner]

tonnactus wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Yet another person who does not understand that shields block biotics for gameplay reasons,

Mass Effect is supposed to be an rpg series.Gameplay hasnt to be more important then lore and immersion.
And they are for sure better option to make a game challenging on harder difficulties then this uninspired crap.

The protection system is just an easy way out that not required much effort.

Mass Effect is shooter/RPG hybrid. It is not pure RPG.

Again, Normal difficulty is the baseline experience. You can read that in-game.

Harder modes with defenses are for those who like such modes. The protection system is much better than the crap from ME1. I really like the protection system. If you don't, choose a different difficulty mode.

[The Spamming Troll]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Even on Casual some enemies have defenses (Harbinger, Scions, Elites etc), the only reason they have is to make powers worth your while.

id go in the opposite direction actually. the only reason they have protections is to force my character into a one trick pony. which is never a good thing in a game that revolves around abilities.

the more i think about what disspoints me in ME2, i can always fall back on the catastrophy of difficulty settings. atleast in my opinion. honestly, if ME3 has enemy protections, ill consider the game a failure, or the developers behind the protections idea are failures themselves. its the least imaginative idea from one of the most imaginative idea makers out there. id be embarassed to bring out a game with enemy protections.

[tonnactus]

Kronner wrote...

Mass Effect is shooter/RPG hybrid. It is not pure RPG.

That still means that the lore of the world is important.

The protection system is much better than the crap from ME1.

How? Making critters resist biotics while jack smashing tree ymirs in a cutscene...
Sure.
There are better ways to make a game challenging then this.
And they are for sure ways to make good gameplay whithout breaking the lore.But i guess that would require more effort and money...
Stasis,by the way was introduced for an reason.

Modifié par tonnactus, 03 mai 2011 - 08:47 .

[tonnactus]

The Spamming Troll wrote...
 its the least imaginative idea from one of the most imaginative idea makers out there. id be embarassed to bring out a game with enemy protections.

Exactly.Even the Dragon Age II combat system is better.Enemies have elemental immunites,but actually some that differ(immune to ice,but weak to fire and vice versa).

What makes someone use all of his abilites often,not only some of them.

[The Spamming Troll]

Kronner wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Yet another person who does not understand that shields block biotics for gameplay reasons,

Mass Effect is supposed to be an rpg series.Gameplay hasnt to be more important then lore and immersion.
And they are for sure better option to make a game challenging on harder difficulties then this uninspired crap.

The protection system is just an easy way out that not required much effort.

Mass Effect is shooter/RPG hybrid. It is not pure RPG.

Again, Normal difficulty is the baseline experience. You can read that in-game.

Harder modes with defenses are for those who like such modes. The protection system is much better than the crap from ME1. I really like the protection system. If you don't, choose a different difficulty mode.

what if i still want to enjoy playing an adept, and also be challeneged in the same way the other classes are challenged, but i thhink enemy protections are a stupid way to create that challenge?

how about play veteran, dont upgrade my weapons or armor, maybe? which is what i do in order to enjoy/play my adept.

also ME2 isnt so much an RPG as portal 2 is a first person shooter. im kinda tired of seeing that as being an excuse in the first place. "yeah but ME is ashooter/RPG......." its the worst shooter/RPG ive ever played, thats waht it IS. ofcorse im only comparing fallout3 and ME1. actually fallut new vegas sucked more. whatever im rambling.

[Tony Gunslinger]

tonnactus wrote...
How? Making critters resist biotics while jack smashing tree ymirs in a cutscene...
Sure.
There are better ways to make a game challenging then this.
And they are for sure ways to make good gameplay whithout breaking the lore.But i guess that would require more effort and money...
Stasis,by the way was introduced for an reason.

Like what?

[Bozorgmehr]

tonnactus wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...
 its the least imaginative idea from one of the most imaginative idea makers out there. id be embarassed to bring out a game with enemy protections.

Exactly.Even the Dragon Age II combat system is better.Enemies have elemental immunites,but actually some that differ(immune to ice,but weak to fire and vice versa).

What makes someone use all of his abilites often,not only some of them.

And how's that different compared to the ME2 system? Some powers are very effective against certain enemies and/or defensive layers, some are not.

Why would I ever use Singularity or Warp when I have Pull Field on a 1.6 seconds cooldown? This means that if the game could throw 10+ enemies at you (which it doesn't), they would all be floating around indefinitely anyway. How does this encourage using other abilities?

[termokanden]

I usually only play on the highest difficulty in games to get an achievement or such because I enjoy the baseline experience the most. But I have much more fun on insanity in ME2. The defenses make the game a bit more tactical. Not super difficult or anything, but it means that your different powers have a purpose, as Bozorgmehr has pointed out.

For me, the defense system (and enemies that aren't made of paper) make insanity much more fun than normal.

[The Spamming Troll]

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

tonnactus wrote...
How? Making critters resist biotics while jack smashing tree ymirs in a cutscene...
Sure.
There are better ways to make a game challenging then this.
And they are for sure ways to make good gameplay whithout breaking the lore.But i guess that would require more effort and money...
Stasis,by the way was introduced for an reason.

Like what?

like using your brain.

write down one thing you think would be better then enemy protections, and youll be one step closer in the right direction. not just "lets implement a poop layer that blocks 90% of abilites" i cant beleive 100% of the pople who played ME1 and ME2 are happy with not using their abilites.

Bozorgmehr wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...
 its
the least imaginative idea from one of the most imaginative idea makers
out there. id be embarassed to bring out a game with enemy protections.

Exactly.Even
the Dragon Age II combat system is better.Enemies have elemental
immunites,but actually some that differ(immune to ice,but weak to fire
and vice versa).

What makes someone use all of his abilites often,not only some of them.

And
how's that different compared to the ME2 system? Some powers are very
effective against certain enemies and/or defensive layers, some are not.

Why
would I ever use Singularity or Warp when I have Pull Field on a 1.6
seconds cooldown? This means that if the game could throw 10+ enemies
at you (which it doesn't), they would all be floating around
indefinitely anyway. How does this encourage using other abilities?

i think you mean how every power accept debuffs or class signature powers are effective against protected enemies with even 1 HP of protections, in which protections are on EVERY enemy i encounter encluding varren? i dont consider usign a heavy throw and causeing a half second stagger or taking off a small chunk of pretction, to be effectively using "heavy throw."

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 03 mai 2011 - 09:32 .

[The Spamming Troll]

termokanden wrote...

I usually only play on the highest difficulty in games to get an achievement or such because I enjoy the baseline experience the most. But I have much more fun on insanity in ME2. The defenses make the game a bit more tactical. Not super difficult or anything, but it means that your different powers have a purpose, as Bozorgmehr has pointed out.

For me, the defense system (and enemies that aren't made of paper) make insanity much more fun than normal.

how do i use different powers on insanity? its more like im using one power on insanity, over and over, and over. thats not tactiacal, or balanced, or anything other then crappy for my adept. i simply say you are wrong, sir.

[tonnactus]

Tony Gunslinger wrote...


Like what?

Like,for example,make enemy biotics more then warps bots like it happen in the vasir fight.
Variety in enemy groups,with engineers that could damp biotic abilities and tech abilities.

This actually would really make the game really challenging.

Just imagine,an enemy engineer could break your cloak field.
Or he could use a kind of poison attack that stops an soldier from using adrenaline rush.

Thus he would be a the target that has to be killed first.


This is tactical and challenging,not the protection bullcrap.

Modifié par tonnactus, 03 mai 2011 - 09:41 .

[tonnactus]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Why would I ever use Singularity or Warp when I have Pull Field on a 1.6 seconds cooldown?

I already explained that.Only the heavy version would work on protection,not the area version.

In MAss Effect 2 there is no reason to "evolve" a biotic power into the heavy version because this version lacks any significant advantage.

[Kabanya101]

I had a big problem with biotic shields. If they are generated from the person, how would they still be generated if the person is getting tired? If your fighting for like nine hours straight, how do they still have the energy to throw up a biotic shield?
I'd trust a shield that will always recharge then in my own strength failing.

[termokanden]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

how do i use different powers on insanity? its more like im using one power on insanity, over and over, and over. thats not tactiacal, or balanced, or anything other then crappy for my adept. i simply say you are wrong, sir.

Well I disagree, sir

Which power are you using over and over again? Singularity? I take it you don't use warp bombs. And what do you do for crowd control if your Singularity is already busy dealing with Harbinger for example?

[Tony Gunslinger]

tonnactus wrote...

Tony Gunslinger wrote...


Like what?

Like,for example,make enemy biotics more then warps bots like it happen in the vasir fight.
Variety in enemy groups,with engineers that could damp biotic abilities and tech abilities.

This actually would really make the game really challenging.

Just imagine,an enemy engineer could break your cloak field.
Or he could use a kind of poison attack that stops an soldier from using adrenaline rush.

Thus he would be a the target that has to be killed first.

This is tactical and challenging,not the protection bullcrap.

All they do is canceling your powers and forces you shoot to with guns. How does making you only use guns "tactical"?

[tonnactus]

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

All they do is canceling your powers

Only if you fail to kill/disable them fast enough.
A priority target.
That is the challenge.A protection system isnt that.Only an annoyance that limits your power use.

Modifié par tonnactus, 03 mai 2011 - 09:50 .

[My Liege]

I think a lot of people here are forgetting the basic fundamentals of biotic and kinetic barriers. There seems to be a universal argument that biotics should work against shields because shields only deflect incoming projectiles at high velocity.

Let's go back to fundamentals:

1.) What is the basis for biotic abilities? Biotic abilities allow the being to generate and manipulate mass effects.

2.) What is the basis for shield technology? A technological mass effect generator creates a kinetic barrier, a field which slows, deflects and otherwise hampers incoming ballistics.

Given that, consider it yourselves. Wouldn't it stand to reason that one mass effect field can defend against an incoming mass effect field? Is this not how Disruptor Torpedoes work? Fighters attacking a dreadnaught launch torpedoes to disrupt its kinetic barriers in pretty much the same manner.

[Tony Gunslinger]

tonnactus wrote...

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

All they do is canceling your powers

Only if you fail to kill/disable them fast enough.
A priority target.
That is the challenge.A protection system isnt that.Only an annoyance that limits your power use.

Your idea of tactics: kill fast

ME2's idea of tactics:

a) overload > strip shields > your gun to kill
your gun > strip shields > CC power

option a) quickly kills, but now you have to wait for 6 secs to repeat
option you risk damage but CC powers like throw/pull is 3 secs, allowing to launch the next attack sooner

Makes you think about long-term vs. short-term consequences of your decisions. That's tactics.

Modifié par Tony Gunslinger, 03 mai 2011 - 10:06 .

[tonnactus]

Tony Gunslinger wrote...


Your idea of tactics: kill fast

No.Priority targets that are more important then other ones and could differ for each class.

ME2's idea of tactics:

Thats easy.For an adept: Use singularity fist.The only thing that actually crowd control 1-2 people with "protections".
Shoot protection away.Warp for the bomb.Only if there is something alive after that,lift have some uses...

Thats it.Basic strategy.Rinse and repeat.

Modifié par tonnactus, 03 mai 2011 - 10:14 .

[Tony Gunslinger]

tonnactus wrote...
No.Priority targets that are more important then other ones and could differ for each class.

It still means your tactics is to simply kill fast.

Thats easy.For an adept: Use singularity fist.The only thing that actually crowd control 1-2 people with "protections".
Shoot protection away.Warp for the bomb.Only if there is something alive after that,lift have some uses...

Thats it.Basic strategy.Rinse and repeat.

Warp takes 6 secs to cooldown, not very good for all situations.

Other options:
a)  squad overload > your pull > your throw
  squad overload > your pull > your gun
c)  squad overload > squad pull > squad warp
d) your gun > your pull > squad warp

The options can go on and on. Each have their own plus and minuses.

Modifié par Tony Gunslinger, 03 mai 2011 - 10:29 .

[Epic777]

Here is an open question, would you consider ME1 to have the more tactical and balanced combat?

[The Spamming Troll]

termokanden wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

how do i use different powers on insanity? its more like im using one power on insanity, over and over, and over. thats not tactiacal, or balanced, or anything other then crappy for my adept. i simply say you are wrong, sir.

Well I disagree, sir

Which power are you using over and over again? Singularity? I take it you don't use warp bombs. And what do you do for crowd control if your Singularity is already busy dealing with Harbinger for example?

im not sure what your getting at here. enemy protections mean i can only use singualrity or warp, so generally id only be using singularity and warp. if i need to CC another enemy with protections, id use singularity or warp. its not a hard decision playin an adept on insanity. i use singularity and warp.

im already tired of saying singularity and warp, and it hasnt even been 5 minutes.

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

tonnactus wrote...
No.Priority targets that are more important then other ones and could differ for each class.

It still means your tactics is to simply kill fast.

Thats easy.For an adept: Use singularity fist.The only thing that actually crowd control 1-2 people with "protections".
Shoot protection away.Warp for the bomb.Only if there is something alive after that,lift have some uses...

Thats it.Basic strategy.Rinse and repeat.

Warp takes 6 secs to cooldown, not very good for all situations.

Other options:
a)  squad overload > your pull > your throw
  squad overload > your pull > your gun
c)  squad overload > squad pull > squad warp
d) your gun > your pull > squad warp

The options can go on and on. Each have their own plus and minuses.

so your saying the options to play an adept lie within your squad selection? theres no such thing as claiming enemy protections as being tactical, specifically for an adept. enemy protections means im ONLY using singualrity adn warp. how does that add any sense of using tactics. it turns a class with tons of powers and potential, into a one trick pony. in no way is that a good thing.

[tonnactus]

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

Warp takes 6 secs to cooldown, not very good for all situations.

Thats fast enough because singularity hold them that long...
Singularity,warp bomb,enemy dead.Thats the most efficient way to play the game,nothing else.

[tonnactus]

[quote]The Spamming Troll wrote...

Well I disagree, sir

Which power are you using over and over again? Singularity? I take it you don't use warp bombs. And what do you do for crowd control if your Singularity is already busy dealing with Harbinger for example?[/quote]


im not sure what your getting at here. enemy protections mean i can only use singualrity or warp, so generally id only be using singularity and warp. if i need to CC another enemy with protections, id use singularity or warp. its not a hard decision playin an adept on insanity. i use singularity and warp.

[/quote]

Well,at least stasis for enemies like ymirs and geth primes was added.Oh,and finally a biotic power that work on "protected" varren.