135 réponses à ce sujet

[DanteCousland]

aah fair enough well either way it was a developer not a hater.

[Realmzmaster]

I do not know if Bioware attracted the COD crowd, but this is one fan that they did not alienate. I like DA 2. The game has it flaws and bugs, but so did DAO, BG1 and 2 etc.
The flaws and bugs in DAO were at times down right game breaking and there are still bugs in it. I still thought DA O was a good game. I think DA 2 is a good game. It is my opinion and that to me is the only one that matters. Now the developers MMV.

[nullunit]

I don't think they were aiming at the CoD player base, I think they were trying to make their game more fun and approachable to players who aren't familiar with the genre. Did they succeed at grabbing those new players? No idea, but they sure didn't alienate me. I love BW all the more because they keep tweaking their formula.

Modifié par nullunit, 03 mai 2011 - 09:02 .

[xkg]

inkjay wrote...

...

'but if what you're insisting on is "I think X is dead so I should never see them again no matter what"... well, prepare to be disappointed'

Yeah, if X is dead i want him to be dead. That sounds logical.

[inkjay]

Dave of Canada wrote...

inkjay wrote...

And then act like we are the ones interested in picking fights. So, yeah, try again please.

You're totally not trying to pick a fight with your tone.

Not at all.

I sure am. I'm not implying otherwise, and actually it should read "the only ones"  so thanks for that. Then again I'm just wondering how is it the fans fault if they get emotional when Bioware's level of discussion is like the one I posted, and they don't even give the face and come out to acknowledge the game faults. Even worse, they are ven passing it off as if people didn't understand the game, which frankly, is insulting.

There is already the example in this topic of a mod (I dont know in what other capacity he works at BW) who is turning up his nose because somehow people feel strongly about this game. Why shouldn't they? Perhaps that Stanley dude should stop looking at the tone of this thread and start watching his own company's actions and tone which elicit such a heated response. Just a suggestion.

[jesuno]

It is a fair question, but where did ever arise that Bioware was going after the COD crowd? I remember reading an article that stated that DA:O was their best selling game to date, and risk of alienating the fanbase vs attracting a new group of gamers is well worth looking into. I would love to know DA2's sales at the same timeframe when DA:O was labeled their best selling game.

[UltiPup]

Face it. COD + DA = Kickass

[Aermord]

There is a -very- good reason people are picking a fight. There's a reason people shows up on these forums after they've stopped playing the game and uninstalled it to voice their opinions:

People who connected with DA:O naturally expected DA2 to be something similar, otherwise, why call it Dragon Age 2? Changing the game mechanics and story type fundamentally in a sequel is a really bad idea and naturally some of us feel cheated, mocked even.

Of course the goal is to pick fights. The goal is to make Bioware realize that they made a mistake, that you do not alienate your fans unpunished. We suffer, you suffer.

Modifié par Aermord, 03 mai 2011 - 09:37 .

[Altima Darkspells]

Realmzmaster wrote...

I do not know if Bioware attracted the COD crowd...

The fact that DA2 is projected to sell half as much as Origins indicates that no, BioWare did not.

[Jerrybnsn]

I have a cousin who practically lives online with CoD. He's never even heard of DA Origins or DAII.

[88mphSlayer]

[spam post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 03 mai 2011 - 10:49 .

[Rxdiaz]

UltiPup wrote...

Face it. COD + DA = Kickass

Actually DAO + COD with a bit of awesome sauce = DOA DOC

[MadLaughter]

However aggressively worded the title is, the sales and review scores speak for themselves. I, however, place most of the blame on the accelerated development cycle instead of the design philosophies.

[Chickenhawked]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I think that anyone who wanted to have an honest discussion of this would a) show far less hostility and more sincerity in their question, and realize that the general gaming audience is not as polarized as many people here make it out to be.

Stop trying to pick fights with us, stop goading us into giving you ammunition to shoot back at us, and maybe we'd be more interested in talking. Just saying.

There's nothing interesting or significant enough about DA2 to discuss.  It's an awful game.  That's all that can be said about it.

There is no discussion about DA2's "story", and no one is sharing any secrets or easter eggs they found in the game.  --There's nothing to be found.  This forum's traffic has plummeted because DA2 is a shell of a game, and because all we get out of you and your co-workers is, "Stop trolling."

The only thing anyone could ever expect from you is an apology, or a confession that the game was rushed, and neither is ever going to happen until the advent of DA3, which you will undoubtedly be quick to praise by downplaying DA2 in exactly the same ways we are this very day.

There's no other way for me to say it: I don't know you personally, but the persona you project online is one of the most stuck-up I've ever encountered on the internet.  Why even post at all when you have never contributed anything of remote value since the release of DA2?  Why not do something to help yourself or your co-workers?  I assure you that if BioWare falls apart, you are not going to be hired elsewhere in the game development industry, so you better patch both yourself and your boat up as well as you can to at least try to keep it from sinking.

[billy the squid]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

88mphSlayer wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Well by the look of things the percieved audience(I don't think it was aimed specifically at CoD fans)hasn't materialised in any great number. The FPS/TPS/Sport game etc. exclusive crowd won't touch it anyway, a proportion of others will be turned off by the graphics/art design etc. whilst other gamers simply don't like the whole concept of RPGs.

Of the core audience a portion of people who bought the game are pi**ed off, others went "meh" and stuck DA2 on a shelf, whilst other's enjoyed it. And at least some have held off on buying the game altogether.

So, no they didn't really get the CoD style exclusive crowd, were they ever going to? and managed to alienate or at least irritate a proportion of the existing fan base, but not everyone.

truth is FPS people pick up an rpg in the same frequency as RPG people pick up an fps

usually it's just due to popularity/word of mouth/a desire for something different, in which case it rarely matters what type of sub-genre your game is in - just that it's considered universally good and is somewhat accessible

That is true. I got both of the Uncharted games last month, because my sister recomended them. And I got way more entertainment out of them, than out of DA2.

(I make refrence to sub genres etc. so I don't have to list all the particular characteristics and general style inherent in different types of game people might like or dislike, I'm lazy, I know.)

Hence my comments regarding a exclusively avoiding or playing a particular genre, at least a percentage of players will not touch a type of game no matter how the developers try to change it, particularly if they show no interest in the concepts at all. eg: I can't stand sports games, even if developers tried to attract me to it I don't find the concept interesting in the slightest. 

Not to say that every one who plays CoD style games will never touch an RPG a proportion will always have enjoyed a number of different game therefore there purchase would indeed be based upon word of mouth/ populartiy/ desire for a different game style, the last point is one of the problems I have with DA 2.

If we work on the premise that gamers enjoy seperate styles of games because they expect something specific from each one (which I think we can safely say most do)  then they are going to expect the characteritstics to be different from the games which they normally play. So I find it strange as to why DA2 removed so much of DAO, which a lot of the core base enjoyed/ new players will want to try if they want a different game style and replaced it with a badly implemented action game whilst advertising it as the sequal to the RPG of the Year 2009? Wasn't that the draw of DAO? it was an RPG, it made no excuses about it, it just did a good job at being what it was supposed to be and people liked it. 

Mr. Laidlaw has said he wanted to draw people who wouldn't normally play RPGs, but have games which contain customization elements and progression which they wouldn't normally associate with the genre (I'm paraphrasing here) Doesn't this miss the point of the appeal of DA O, it sold well because people who wanted an RPG got a good one, and word of mouth spread that it was a good game/ for those who wanted to try that style "you'll like this game if you like ..." DA2 doesn't really satisfy that demand and it doesn't create one either, compounded by the fact that the graphics are pretty poor compared to the better competing action/ FPS games and lacks the depth and customisation which is present in RPG styles so at least a sizable proportion gamers who play FPS/ RPGs interchangerbly aren't going spread word of mouth to the same extent as it doesnt really do either that well.

I know this is broadstrokes and somewhat rambling, I am also aware some people will like DA 2 aswell as some of the other styles of games I have mentioned which is why I have tried to frame this in such a way that it does not sound like those who enjoyed/ disliked DA2 are in the minority and it doesn't devolve into mindless sniping and "its just your opinion" being thrown around. Oh well I can only hope.

Modifié par billy the squid, 03 mai 2011 - 11:48 .

[KBomb]

Chickenhawked wrote...

There's nothing interesting or significant enough about DA2 to discuss.  It's an awful game.  That's all that can be said about it.

There is no discussion about DA2's "story", and no one is sharing any secrets or easter eggs they found in the game.  --There's nothing to be found.  This forum's traffic has plummeted because DA2 is a shell of a game, and because all we get out of you and your co-workers is, "Stop trolling."

The only thing anyone could ever expect from you is an apology, or a confession that the game was rushed, and neither is ever going to happen until the advent of DA3, which you will undoubtedly be quick to praise by downplaying DA2 in exactly the same ways we are this very day.

There's no other way for me to say it: I don't know you personally, but the persona you project online is one of the most stuck-up I've ever encountered on the internet.  Why even post at all when you have never contributed anything of remote value since the release of DA2?  Why not do something to help yourself or your co-workers?  I assure you that if BioWare falls apart, you are not going to be hired elsewhere in the game development industry, so you better patch both yourself and your boat up as well as you can to at least try to keep it from sinking.

If it is so unworthy of discussion, why are you discussing it at all? Why do you take the time and effort to type out diatribe if it is so worthless of attention? You think it’s an awful game. Okay, noted. Why continue to flog a dead horse?

I don’t blame anyone for not wanting to answer to someone who is verbally bullying a way to an answer. “Give us an apology or else!” or “Confess our opinions are the most worthy or suffer!” It is the way children strive for attention and giving into it only ensures the behavior is being rewarded. Any attention is good attention to some, it seems.

I don’t think Stanley Woo is stuck-up or rude. He was simply stating that rudeness, hostility and pugnacious behavior will not be rewarded at the snap of a finger. I think it’s a good plan.

[Chickenhawked]

Because the game was so bad that I hate it, KBomb. I don't just dislike it. It makes me angry that I couldn't finish the game because of how boring it was. See the little icon under my avatar? It means I purchased, with USD, a game so bad that I uninstalled it and never plan to play it again.

A lot of things have to go wrong for a video game--an entertainment device--to not be entertaining.

Because I hate the game, I will be here forever, watching the game burn. That, for me, is more enjoyable than playing the game. --But every so often the endless stream of complaints and bad experiences are interrupted by, "Now now, children, keep it civil." It absolutely shocks me that the people responsible for making DA2 think that hate towards it is unwarranted. It absolutely shocks me that the people responsible for making DA2 think that we, the consumers, are responsible for identifying where the game went wrong. Last I checked, we are the consumers, not the developers. --The developers and directors are the ones who are supposed to know how to entertain, and how to build an entertaining software.

They know exactly what sucks about DA2. They know that DA2 sucks. They, again, won't admit it until DA3--and that is why "discussion" and "constructive criticism" is pointless. DA2 is done. The only thing that matters is what they do in the future. --And I hope they make something decent, instead of spending all their time browsing these forums only to repeatedly post, "Don't argue with me! I know I'm posting here and adding nothing relevant to the thread, but don't address me!"

[TheTranzor]

Chickenhawked wrote...

Because the game was so bad that I hate it, KBomb. I don't just dislike it. It makes me angry that I couldn't finish the game because of how boring it was. See the little icon under my avatar? It means I purchased, with USD, a game so bad that I uninstalled it and never plan to play it again.

A lot of things have to go wrong for a video game--an entertainment device--to not be entertaining.

Because I hate the game, I will be here forever, watching the game burn. That, for me, is more enjoyable than playing the game. --But every so often the endless stream of complaints and bad experiences are interrupted by, "Now now, children, keep it civil." It absolutely shocks me that the people responsible for making DA2 think that hate towards it is unwarranted. It absolutely shocks me that the people responsible for making DA2 think that we, the consumers, are responsible for identifying where the game went wrong. Last I checked, we are the consumers, not the developers. --The developers and directors are the ones who are supposed to know how to entertain, and how to build an entertaining software.

They know exactly what sucks about DA2. They know that DA2 sucks. They, again, won't admit it until DA3--and that is why "discussion" and "constructive criticism" is pointless. DA2 is done. The only thing that matters is what they do in the future. --And I hope they make something decent, instead of spending all their time browsing these forums only to repeatedly post, "Don't argue with me! I know I'm posting here and adding nothing relevant to the thread, but don't address me!"

Wow dude, such rage... sounds like you have so much sand in your vajayjay, that any minute now you'll pop out a pearl. 

What I want to see is about 12 more item appearance DLCs to pop up...that way, we'll have enough sand from the ragers to make a nice beach in time for summer. 

[KBomb]

Chickenhawked wrote...

Because the game was so bad that I hate it, KBomb. I don't just dislike it. It makes me angry that I couldn't finish the game because of how boring it was. See the little icon under my avatar? It means I purchased, with USD, a game so bad that I uninstalled it and never plan to play it again.

A lot of things have to go wrong for a video game--an entertainment device--to not be entertaining.

Because I hate the game, I will be here forever, watching the game burn. That, for me, is more enjoyable than playing the game. --But every so often the endless stream of complaints and bad experiences are interrupted by, "Now now, children, keep it civil." It absolutely shocks me that the people responsible for making DA2 think that hate towards it is unwarranted. It absolutely shocks me that the people responsible for making DA2 think that we, the consumers, are responsible for identifying where the game went wrong. Last I checked, we are the consumers, not the developers. --The developers and directors are the ones who are supposed to know how to entertain, and how to build an entertaining software.

They know exactly what sucks about DA2. They know that DA2 sucks. They, again, won't admit it until DA3--and that is why "discussion" and "constructive criticism" is pointless. DA2 is done. The only thing that matters is what they do in the future. --And I hope they make something decent, instead of spending all their time browsing these forums only to repeatedly post, "Don't argue with me! I know I'm posting here and adding nothing relevant to the thread, but don't address me!"

Yes. I get that you hate it. I get that some people hate it. That isn’t hard to miss with the redundancy of some people who like to make thread after thread and reply after reply voicing their dislike. The fact that you like it or not is moot at this point, it’s like pointing out that air is breathable. We get it. It your opinion the game is bad and that you wasted your money.

Look at this quote from you: “Because I hate the game, I will be here forever, watching the game burn. That, for me, is more enjoyable than playing the game.”

Do you really have to wonder why they don’t want to respond? I can’t speak for them, but that sounds to me like a childish response and as someone who works professionally with children--I wouldn’t reward that with a serious answer. Just because they don’t respond to every criticism, constructive or otherwise, does not mean they aren’t taking note. Personally, I don’t see why they bother to post at all since most of the time it’s met with some asinine, rude or degrading statement about how “they suck”. (Not saying you do that, just a general statement)

Furthermore, this statement: , "Don't argue with me! I know I'm posting here and adding nothing relevant to the thread, but don't address me!"  Seems more indicative to some that post here rather than the developers.

[Chickenhawked]

Well, you asked.

I don't mind if I sound childish. I think maturity and political correctness is overrated. And it's certainly not deserved in a climate where various gaming outlets were indirectly threatened to put out positive DA2 reviews. --I think you're reading me wrong, though. I don't want the developers to respond. I want them to leave these forums and make a good game.

I'm not stupid, though. They don't have anything to do right now; they haven't been greenlighted, and they won't be greenlighted until the DA2/Old Republic situation is resolved.

[Vena_86]

If you want the simple fast action crowd then first and foremost you need a game that looks good, instead of a game that looks even worse (on PC) than it's prequel which already had an outdated engine.

[KBomb]

Chickenhawked wrote...

Well, you asked.

I don't mind if I sound childish. I think maturity and political correctness is overrated. And it's certainly not deserved in a climate where various gaming outlets were indirectly threatened to put out positive DA2 reviews. --I think you're reading me wrong, though. I don't want the developers to respond. I want them to leave these forums and make a good game.

I'm not stupid, though. They don't have anything to do right now; they haven't been greenlighted, and they won't be greenlighted until the DA2/Old Republic situation is resolved.

While I would agree that political correctness and sometimes maturity are overreacted--and this is not directed at you--there is a difference in acting a bit immature and throwing complete verbal temper tantrums because things didn’t go the way you wished or expected them to go. You cannot be surprised that some may not take you seriously when you resort to being immature, or may chastise you for being so. You have every right to dislike the game, you have every right to be disappointed. You have every right to say what you wish within rule and reason, what you don’t have the right to is to dictate how others will or should respond to that.

[Mecher3k]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I think that anyone who wanted to have an honest discussion of this would a) show far less hostility and more sincerity in their question, and realize that the general gaming audience is not as polarized as many people here make it out to be.

Stop trying to pick fights with us, stop goading us into giving you ammunition to shoot back at us, and maybe we'd be more interested in talking. Just saying.

Lol, everything you just said can be turned against you when I said one person's name, Mike Laidlaw.

1. He has shown enough hostilitiy to anyone who liked DA:O and treats them like idiots with comments like PC gamers should play on hard.

2. Well he has made clear his sincerity no matter how foolish.

3. You're right it's not as polarized as many make it seem, it's pretty much all against you. As the dirt cheap European prices for DA2 and the rapidly dropping sales prove.

4. Stop trying to pick fights? Then tell Laidlaw to stfu then. He has only added fuel to the fire and made it into an inferno.

5. Give ammo to shoot back at you? Same as 4, tell Laidlaw to stfu then.

6. No you still wouldn't be interested in talking. It's either Laidlaw's way of spitting in the face of the DA:O fans or silence. With a tiny amount of actual responses that ask questions about what we liked or didn't liked about DA2. Like one of the devs or mods asking us about the wave systems and the combat system in general a few weeks ago.

Modifié par Mecher3k, 04 mai 2011 - 02:07 .

[Foolsfolly]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I think that anyone who wanted to have an honest discussion of this would a) show far less hostility and more sincerity in their question, and realize that the general gaming audience is not as polarized as many people here make it out to be.

Stop trying to pick fights with us, stop goading us into giving you ammunition to shoot back at us, and maybe we'd be more interested in talking. Just saying.

I know many people who play games and in general they play multiple types of genres. I never liked the 'CoD crowd' comments on these boards for that reason. I dislike the elitism in gaming.

You may be talking about the polarization of this game. I can't say. I don't scream it's love nor do I scream it's the worst game ever made, because it's neither. It's just somewhere in the normal range of games. Fine not terrible or great.

On the net saying "I liked it but" always gets summed up as "I HATE IT!"

[Maverick827]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I am a quality assurance design analyst, and I was one of the testers on Dragon Age II.

Stanley Woo, QA Commando.

What was the most hilarious bug that you can remember? I'd share mine, but I don't think business software would produce anything as ammusing.

Romantiq wrote...

QA was done very poorly for DAII by the way, hence we got all the bugs and general sence of low quality product.

You do realize that the QA team does not also dictate release dates, correct?