55 réponses à ce sujet

[amtvcjca]

How can i kill Wynne at the Circle of Magi? And what happens if i do it?
Is there any way to NOT take her with me? It's annoying how she puts herself into your party and you can't choose someone else. If i take her, for how long is she locked in the party?

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

She's pretty much locked into your party until you reach the end of the Circle Quest.

Unfortunately, the only way NOT to take her with is to kill her. So you must suffer her incompetance and incessant preachieness unless you kill her.

There is a way, if you are on the PC to get rid of her at least in the Fade sequence. Install the extra dog slot mod and bring Dog with you to the tower as a free party member. When you encounter the Sloth demon, since you can only have 3 companions in the Fade, Wynne gets bumped out, and she is replaced by Dog in the Fade. When you defeat the Sloth demon, she is like a 5th companion.

Of course, if you go this route, you can't bring her to Landsmeet, or else Alistair will disappear.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

As far as killing her at the Circle, you get disapproval from leliana and Alistair if they are in the party. You have 2 opportunities to kill her. Once is when you meet her guarding the kids, tell her you are going to destroy the tower. She'll attack you, you kill her and the other mages. The other chance is when you find Cullen before Uldred. Agree with Cullen to kill all the mages in the Chamber, Wynne will attack you.

What happens? She dies. Nothing game shattering or story changing if she does.

[amtvcjca]

 So, what exactly will i miss if i kill her?

[caradoc2000]

Her sidequest.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Or a third chance to kill her at the sacred ashes if you defile them.

Her side quest does net you a pretty nice amulet that gives 10% resistance to spirit, nature, and lightning. Other than that, you miss out on Zevran, Morrigan, and Oghren tormenting her in companion banter.

[amtvcjca]

 Thanks for the help people. I'm definitely killing that annoying old woman

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

amtvcjca wrote...

 Thanks for the help people. I'm definitely killing that annoying old woman

Lol, trust me, I understand the sentiment.

She is annoying. And I hate having to take her along in the Circle. But I usually let her live, because tormenting and harrassing her through the game is as theraputic as killing her.

[amtvcjca]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

amtvcjca wrote...

 Thanks for the help people. I'm definitely killing that annoying old woman

Lol, trust me, I understand the sentiment.

She is annoying. And I hate having to take her along in the Circle. But I usually let her live, because tormenting and harrassing her through the game is as theraputic as killing her.

lol 

[digi_ronin]

Hm, am I really the only one who didn't mind Wynne much?

I mean, she's really the only major arcane mage character in DAO.
Looking at the various comments around this forum, she seems to get plenty of hate...

Most of all, keep in mind that if you are playing a mage, then Morrigan and Wynne are intended as the two extreme ends of the scale for what kind of mage you want to be. And of course Morrigan has the easier part, since in terms of writing, a cynic deadpan snarker is far easier to sell to the audience than a noble and well-meaning paragon (in the general meaning, not the dwarf thing).

Wynne is the caring, educated kind grandmother type, upright and uptight, and working for the better of the world. To the point of sometimes being a sanctimonious crone.
Morrigan is the constantly self-annoyed, leather-jacket biker gang bimbo type, rude and nihilistic, who cares for noone but herself. To the point of sometimes being hollow and rebellious just for rebellion's sake.

When playing a young mage just released from the Circle, Wynne is a major asset for understanding that mages don't need to be constantly-annoyed rebels without a cause. =)

And if we're talking annoyance, she really isn't any worse than Morrigan. Actually Morrigan "b*tches in" a lot more often than Wynne. Sometimes you can 't even avoid it, because Morrigan even flays you during npcs conversations that were forced on you, and every option you have makes her sour. Wynne on the other hand will stay perfectly silent throughout the game as long as you play a goody-two-shoes mage.

Now don't get me wrong, I love Morrigans character and she inevitably made me laugh every time she flayed one of the NPCs. But Wynne was just as entertaining. The few times when her viewpoints were all too... anvilicious... I just wrote it off as beginning senility. =D

And all in all, for the main character she is quite a lot easier to get along with than Morrigan.

Modifié par digi_ronin, 04 mai 2011 - 05:51 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

I didn't mind Wynne.

My good girl honour-bound HN Warden got on with her just fine and enjoyed discussing ethics/right-and-wrong.

My other Wardens thought she was a busy-body at best, or an annoying preachy know-it-all at worst. None of them have hated her (or cared enough about her opinions to hate her).

[Marvin_Arnold]

Everyone who wants to kill Wynne just hates his/her real-life grandmother.

Apart from that, with her tactics set correctly, she's priceless as a healer/supporter in battle.

Besides, when Wynne starts to talk about her sex life... (Party banters with Zevran and Alistair), oooh mama, you'll see her in a different light.

Morrigan is the constantly self-annoyed, leather-jacket biker gang bimbo type,

That just made my day!

Modifié par Marvin_Arnold, 04 mai 2011 - 09:08 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Marvin_Arnold wrote...

Everyone who wants to kill Wynne just hates his/her real-life grandmother.

My real life grandmother is dead, thank you very much. If she was alive she'd kick Wynne's hypocritical, sanctimonious ass.

Besides, when Wynne starts to talk about her sex life... (Party banters with Zevran and Alistair), oooh mama, you'll see her in a different light.

Wynne talking about seducing Alistair right before disposing of Cailan's corpse certainly did make me see her in a different light. Not a very favorable one, either. It was disturbing, at best, especially considering Alistair adopted her as a mother figure.

Zevran's constant harrassing of Wynne is actually quite amusing. But that's due to Zevran's rather blunt and crass humor, not anything redeemable about Wynne.

[Addai]

digi_ronin wrote...
I mean, she's really the only major arcane mage character in DAO.

Not sure what you mean here??  There are plenty of other mages.

Looking at the various comments around this forum, she seems to get plenty of hate...

Most of all, keep in mind that if you are playing a mage, then Morrigan and Wynne are intended as the two extreme ends of the scale for what kind of mage you want to be. And of course Morrigan has the easier part, since in terms of writing, a cynic deadpan snarker is far easier to sell to the audience than a noble and well-meaning paragon (in the general meaning, not the dwarf thing).

Making a disagreeable character (Morrigan), who deceives the PC even in a relationship, to be so beloved is much trickier IMO.

Wynne is the caring, educated kind grandmother type, upright and uptight, and working for the better of the world. To the point of sometimes being a sanctimonious crone.

Mostly caring about herself and her own priorities.  She's a hypocrite.

Morrigan is the constantly self-annoyed, leather-jacket biker gang bimbo type, rude and nihilistic, who cares for noone but herself. To the point of sometimes being hollow and rebellious just for rebellion's sake.

It would be pretty tough for a loner to be a "gang bimbo."  Nor is she rebellious for the lulz.  She sees power as a key to survival- and survival is her highest priority. 

When playing a young mage just released from the Circle, Wynne is a major asset for understanding that mages don't need to be constantly-annoyed rebels without a cause. =)

Or, complete justification for why you should be glad never to have to set foot in the Tower again.  A mage PC gets to see Wynne's hypocrisy even more clearly than others.

Modifié par Addai67, 04 mai 2011 - 03:09 .

[Addai]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Marvin_Arnold wrote...

Everyone who wants to kill Wynne just hates his/her real-life grandmother.

My real life grandmother is dead, thank you very much. If she was alive she'd kick Wynne's hypocritical, sanctimonious ass.

Wynne talking about seducing Alistair right before disposing of Cailan's corpse certainly did make me see her in a different light. Not a very favorable one, either. It was disturbing, at best, especially considering Alistair adopted her as a mother figure.

Zevran's constant harrassing of Wynne is actually quite amusing. But that's due to Zevran's rather blunt and crass humor, not anything redeemable about Wynne.

Exactly.  Zevran is, very deftly and humorously, pwning Wynne there because of her self-righteous niggling at him.  Morrigan pwns her pretty badly, too.  These are the people who can see Wynne better than she can see herself.

No one pwns her quite so handily as Loghain, however.

[Marvin_Arnold]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Marvin_Arnold wrote...

Everyone who wants to kill Wynne just hates his/her real-life grandmother.

My real life grandmother is dead, thank you very much.

And you still hate her? Jeez!

Besides, when Wynne starts to talk about her sex life... (Party banters with Zevran and Alistair), oooh mama, you'll see her in a different light.

Wynne talking about seducing Alistair right before disposing of Cailan's corpse certainly did make me see her in a different light. Not a very favorable one, either. It was disturbing, at best, especially considering Alistair adopted her as a mother figure. 

That's not the instance I meant. But good it disturbed you. Might shake you out of your complacency. Here's another disturbing fact: You can actually talk Wynne out of her bigotry and turn her into a (more) human being. Contrary to you, NPCs can actually change their opinion about other people. How 'bout that?

That time you mentioned, she was just joining the spirit and teasing back. Goodness, it seems with all your grouchiness you wouldn't recognize irony if Wynne hit you over the head with it...

Jeez, don't you people realize how self-rightous and narrow-minded you sound yourselves?

Modifié par Marvin_Arnold, 04 mai 2011 - 03:30 .

[Addai]

Marvin_Arnold wrote...
That's not the instance I meant. But good it disturbed you. Might shake you out of your complacency. Here's another disturbing fact: You can actually talk Wynne out of her bigotry and turn her into a (more) human being. Contrary to you, NPCs can actually change their opinion about other people. How 'bout that?

Dude, Wynne is the most cluelessly immovable NPC in the entire world of DA.  You can have saved the world, but if you reject her "wisdom" she greets you like a naughty five year old.  "You keep turning up, just like a bad penny."  Yes you hag, because I'm here to save the world again.

[GSSAGE7]

It may be a sterotype, but how often to the elderly admit to being wrong, especially when proven wrong by someone much younger than them?

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Addai67 wrote...

No one pwns her quite so handily as Loghain, however.

That conversational pwning by Loghain is probably the best off them all. Blunt, direct, and painfully true.

I only wish my Warden had the opportunity to do so. Or at least give Loggy the bro-fist bump when he did.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

[quote]Marvin_Arnold wrote...


My real life grandmother is dead, thank you very much. [/quote]And you still hate her? Jeez![/quote]

Nope, loved her dearly like a mother. If Wynne was anything like my grandmother, she's probably be my favorite companion.

But she isn't. She's a clueless, self-righteous moralizing idiot who likes to dish out advice and instruction in things she knows sweet f*ck all about.


[quote]That's not the instance I meant. But good it disturbed you. Might shake you out of your complacency. Here's another disturbing fact: You can actually talk Wynne out of her bigotry and turn her into a (more) human being. Contrary to you, NPCs can actually change their opinion about other people. How 'bout that?[/quote]

What game are you playing again? Certainly not DAO. I've played a wide variety of characters, one of whom actually liked Wynne. And I have never once seen Wynne change from her idiotic, syrupy, platitude/pseudo-wisdom spewing Chantry tool, no matter which route I took. And every conversation/dialogue with her re-enforces this view. I've never seen Wynne change her views. In fact, I've seen her cling on to them even when it's pretty clear she's wrong.

Her preaching about what Grey wardens are and should do just drives this point home, as she clearly has no idea what she is talking about. Yet this does not stop her from preaching and trying to push her idiotic views onto the Warden.

[quote]That time you mentioned, she was just joining the spirit and teasing back. Goodness, it seems with all your grouchiness you wouldn't recognize irony if Wynne hit you over the head with it...
[/quote]

Do you even know what irony is?

Making sexual innuendo towards a young man who has adopted her as a mother figure is not ironic, it's disturbing.

[Tellervo]

Why is this another Wynne argument thread? You either like her or you don't. Either way, the arguments on both sides are all tired. As tired as Wynne's achy old lady bones.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Tellervo wrote...

Why is this another Wynne argument thread? You either like her or you don't. Either way, the arguments on both sides are all tired. As tired as Wynne's achy old lady bones.

Why not? Do you see any other heated discussions occurring in the DAO forums that haven't been done 100 times before?

[digi_ronin]

Addai67 wrote...

digi_ronin wrote...
I mean, she's really the only major arcane mage character in DAO.

Not sure what you mean here??  There are plenty of other mages.

Easy there, no need to get passionate.

And yes, there are mages, but not counting Jowan, they either
- only have five minutes of screentime
or
- are not arcane mages, but witches, hedge wizards, blood mages, abominations... you name it. =)

(Note: with "arcane" I was refering to the D&D tradition of calling scientific, scholarly spellcasters in towers arcane mages. Which happens to be the type I favor, as opposed to less civilized styles like shamanism or witchery.)

Making a disagreeable character (Morrigan), who deceives the PC even in a relationship, to be so beloved is much trickier IMO.

In todays postmodern stortelling world? Nah, not really.

Just look at any random anime series or contemporary fantasy tv show, the ambiguous deadpan snarkers are always the one with the bigger fanbase. Playing heroism or ideals straight has become a BIG no-go these days. Probably rightfully so, as that theme has been done to death in the 80s/90s.

Or even look at DAO itself. It's the spiritual successor of the Baldurs Gate series - but what's its style? Dark Fantasy as opposed to High Fantasy. Instead of the old Black and White morality, we have Black and Grey (or even make that Grey and Gray) morality. Instead of heroic deeds we have ambigous viewpoints, moral double-binds, and bloodsputtered leads just trying to get out of it all alive. And there are plenty of other examples of this style, another highly praised one is the "Witcher" series.

Mind, I'm not saying this is wrong, I'm enjoying it because things can be quite a bit more complex with this kind of backdrop - but it's still a fact that gritty and cynic fantasy is VERY "in" these days. And in such an environment, a deadpan snarker like Morrigan has all the advantage - while Wynne's idealism has the whole setting working against her. =)

Mostly caring about herself and her own priorities.  She's a hypocrite.

Hm.... weird, I always had the impression that she lives up to what she says and follows her self-imposed high standards...  what part of that is hypocrisy?

Modifié par digi_ronin, 04 mai 2011 - 08:03 .

[Addai]

digi_ronin wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

digi_ronin wrote...
I mean, she's really the only major arcane mage character in DAO.

Not sure what you mean here??  There are plenty of other mages.

Easy there, no need to get passionate.

And yes, there are mages, but not counting Jowan, they either
- only have five minutes of screentime
or
- are not arcane mages, but witches, hedge wizards, blood mages, abominations... you name it. =)
(Note: with "arcane" I was refering to the D&D tradition of calling scientific, scholarly spellcasters in towers arcane mages. Which happens to be the type I favor, as opposed to less civilized styles like shamanism or witchery.)

Ah.  I was just puzzled, that's all.  Never heard of the classification, though it would explain why you prefer Wynne.  I think the Circle is pathetic, myself.

Just look at any random anime series or contemporary fantasy tv show, the ambiguous deadpan snarkers are always the one with the bigger fanbase. Playing heroism or ideals straight has become a BIG no-go these days. Probably rightfully so, as that theme has been done to death in the 80s/90s.

I suppose I can see that.  However, Morrigan has a lot of detractors, too.  It's all in how it's done.  Velanna is a deadpan b*tch character and she's quite unpopular.  Morrigan is more nuanced.

Hm.... weird, I always had the impression that she lives up to what she says and follows her self-imposed high standards...  what part of that is hypocrisy?

For example, she herself wants out of the Tower as much as possible, but she's always trying to get other people back in.  The most egregious example being Aneirin, who was chased away by her, nearly killed by templars and is perfectly happy where he is- but she still tries to get him to go back.  The other being the Warden mage.  She thinks Grey Wardens are the saviors of humanity but she still wants the Warden to go back to the Circle.  Hypocrisy is Wynne's biggest flaw IMO.  Presumption is another.

Modifié par Addai67, 04 mai 2011 - 08:04 .

[digi_ronin]

Addai67 wrote...
For example, she herself wants out of the Tower as much as possible, but she's always trying to get other people back in.  The most egregious example being Aneirin, who was chased away by her, nearly killed by templars and is perfectly happy where he is- but she still tries to get him to go back.  The other being the Warden mage.  She thinks Grey Wardens are the saviors of humanity but she still wants the Warden to go back to the Circle.

To you it seems like she wants out of the tower?
Hm... what gave you that impression?

I mean yes, she wants to be part of the current events, but it's not like she'd be on some personal adventure hunt. She comes along fully expecting to die in the process. Actually, to be precise she already DID die before she joined you, while protecting some apprentices with her life. Only that spirit brought her back. A spirit of compassion, nonetheless. Being chosen by such a being says a lot about her personality. She does not leave the Circle behind, much to the opposite. Instead, she decided to help the Warden in her function as a circle mage. After all, it's not like Circle mages are not allowed to go anywhere.

There's indeed the icky detail about the Chantry sitting on their backs all the time, which I also hated. But hey, that's the only thing wrong about the Circle. And precisely what I changed at the end of the game by having Alistair grant the Circle independence. And bingo, with a single move you have a civilized, highly experienced, highly organized group of responsible mages, free to finally research some better ways than that silly and filthy blood magic concept. =)

Modifié par digi_ronin, 04 mai 2011 - 08:25 .