tmp7704 wrote...
LobselVith8 wrote...
You're addressing her reference to that one line at Sundermount repeatedly for your argument. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
That's what the Chantry says about the Maker. Going this route it's perfectly logical to make claim that the Eluvian can spawn herds of flying halla and restore the Arlathan to its former glory in one swoop. And infuse every being in Thedas with magical ability. There's no evidence to support that but hey, that's just absence of the evidence, isn't it.
The issue is that Hawke doesn't have the information that Merrill does - as the Gaider quote illustrates, Merrill gathered lore about the Eluvian.
tmp7704 wrote...
LobselVith8 wrote...
I addressed the possibility of what the Eluvian could mean for the elves. You claim that "She doesn't even know what it does" when we don't know that. Also, when you claim that she "presumes that based on little else but it's elf-made, it's old so it must be good" you're presenting your opinions as facts.
Hmm, you're right here -- at least about the last part, i have to agree. Although i'd still consider that when it comes to knowing what the Eluvian does, that's at least debatable. She doesn't appear to know its purpose when you can question her about it initially, and for all the talk about "absence of evidence" i'd say that failing to present the "evidence" like she does can be in the context reasonably viewed as "evidence" itself, i.e. an indication there's lack of knowledge.
Whether she learns that purpose at some point we don't know, but since it's never indicated that she does then it's again reasonable to presume that she doesn't -- as going the other way is the route to flying halla madness.
Merrill never mentions that she gathered lore about the Eluvian or that she extrapolated information from the shard to build it, but David Gaider states that she did. Simply because Merrill didn't communicate what she's learned doesn't mean she doesn't know anything about it.
tmp7704 wrote...
LobselVith8 wrote...
The "dwarves hold no such beliefs" mention is where the dwarves don't believe in the Chantry version of events
That's to be expected because the dwarves don't believe in the Maker (most of them doesn't, anyway) But then how many dwarves have seen the Black (and earlier allegedly the Golden) City with their own eyes?
Considering that the Fade can only be entered by mages awake, how many members of the clergy had seen the Golden City, or the Black City?
tmp7704 wrote...
Their beliefs fit with what they know, and don't really conflict with the Chantry version per se -- just because the dwarves believe the darkspawn appeared one day out of the blue doesn't mean it couldn't appear as result of the magisters entering the Golden City.
Since the dwarves don't believe in the Maker, I'd have to disagree that it doesn't conflict with the Chantry version, which is based around the existance of the Maker and the Golden City as the former seat of the Maker. This is supported by the Dwarven Warden codex on the darkspawn:
"The surfacers claim that the first darkspawn fell from heaven. They spin tales of magic and sin. But the Children of the Stone know better. The darkspawn rose up out of the earth. For it was in the Deep Roads they first appeared. Creatures in our own likeness, armed and armored, but with no more intelligence than tezpadam, bestial and savage.
At first they were few, easily hunted and slain by our warriors. But in the recesses of the Deep Roads, they grew in numbers and in courage. Our distant thaigs came under attack, and now it was the army, not a few warriors, being sent to deal with the creatures. Victories still came easily, though, and we thought the threat would soon be over.
We were wrong."
-written by Shaper Czibor
Modifié par LobselVith8, 05 mai 2011 - 04:47 .
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