153 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

InvaderErl wrote...

ME2 set up the Geth/Quarian war, it introduced Harbinger, the Illusive Man, and EDI. It created the possibility of a Genophage cure via Mordin's quest, it explained where the Reapers come from, it set up and followed through on the fall of the Shadowbroker and then the rise of Liara in his place. ME2 gave us insights into the Geth that we previously lacked. They've foreshadowed the importance of Dark Energy, and gave us a slew of new characters that will be appearing the 3rd game.

Anyone that seriously believes that what happened in ME2 will just vanish into the ether is not paying attention.

/thread.

Pretty much this. People are looking too hard.

[Manic Sheep]

Again we can’t judge how relevant ME2 will be without having played ME3. Even if the collectors plot was not relevant some of the LM could be set up and background for ME3. Base tech, genophage cure, cybernetics, quarian vs geth, dark energy, the fact you were working with Cerberus, understanding Cerberus motivations and how they operate ect. We may be getting some of our squadmates back so further insight into their characters and set up for them. I suspect that EDI will be important to tho obviously that is just speculation
Even if there is little relevance it was still good as a standalone game and helped fleshed out the world a bit more and helped bioware test things for ME3.

I wasn’t happy about the Cerberus thing, not because I think they are nice and agree with them but because I think it would be more interesting if they kept them with the grey anti hero/anti villain, “necessary evil” to defeat the reapers sort of thing rather than making them yet another mini threat  but we don’t know why yet so there may be a good reason. Them betraying you is hardly a surprise given the absolutely stupid amount of foreshadowing you got with the renegade choice so you should have seen it coming. I like you bioware but really? Did you need to pour it on that thick?

I sometimes get annoyed by the renegade choices seemly being invalidated rather than being a trade off with different pros and cons which is what I would prefer (so far, we don’t have the full effects yet) but the reason I’ picking some renegade choices in the first place is because I didn’t want the story to be that nice and it makes more sense to me. So really shouldn’t complain that the paragon choices are getting better outcomes when I didn’t want the better outcome.  I can make my paragon fail certain things while still staying in character myself to make it feel less like your just win all the time by picking white options instead of charm/intimidate.

Modifié par Manic Sheep, 04 mai 2011 - 12:18 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Undertone wrote...

You are probably correct that I should wait for more info. And yes ME2 is fun, but story and dialogue have always been the most important aspects for me when it comes to movies, games, whatever. Currently you can play ME1, skip ME2 entirely and still be up with what's going on with very few exceptions (the only one that I can maybe think of is "Oh the geth are good guys now").

Even if I could, I wouldn't.  Too much fun, too many juice variables to import, and I love my squad to death.

And really, with the Reapers hoofing it to the Milky Way after the Citadel plan tanked, we didn't really have anything to do but kill time anyway.

Imagine if ME2 had started with the arrival of the Reapers.  Everyone would be going, "Hey, wait a minute!  How come they just showed up like that?!  Why didn't anyone do anything to prepare?  What the hell was Bioware thinking, putting that giant, stupid timeskip in there?!  What, was Shepard getting drunk somewhere or something?!"

Plus, I'd rather play the stuff that happened in ME2 than read or be told about it.

I just hope the reason or plot twist is good. Because TIM is really nice and interesting character and so far ME3 contradicts everything about him that was in ME2 (work with Shepard despite methods, greater threat etc.). He is reduced to a cliche, stupid, normal mini-villain.

Like you didn't see it coming?

Renegade Ending 
Paragon Ending
Shepard Dies

[Undertone]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Undertone wrote...

You are probably correct that I should wait for more info. And yes ME2 is fun, but story and dialogue have always been the most important aspects for me when it comes to movies, games, whatever. Currently you can play ME1, skip ME2 entirely and still be up with what's going on with very few exceptions (the only one that I can maybe think of is "Oh the geth are good guys now").

Even if I could, I wouldn't.  Too much fun, too many juice variables to import, and I love my squad to death.

And really, with the Reapers hoofing it to the Milky Way after the Citadel plan tanked, we didn't really have anything to do but kill time anyway.

Imagine if ME2 had started with the arrival of the Reapers.  Everyone would be going, "Hey, wait a minute!  How come they just showed up like that?!  Why didn't anyone do anything to prepare?  What the hell was Bioware thinking, putting that giant, stupid timeskip in there?!  What, was Shepard getting drunk somewhere or something?!"

Plus, I'd rather play the stuff that happened in ME2 than read or be told about it.

I just hope the reason or plot twist is good. Because TIM is really nice and interesting character and so far ME3 contradicts everything about him that was in ME2 (work with Shepard despite methods, greater threat etc.). He is reduced to a cliche, stupid, normal mini-villain.

Like you didn't see it coming?

Renegade Ending 
Paragon Ending
Shepard Dies

Of course I feel the same way. It just seems to me that Cerberus being the enemy again is a step back. As for seeing it coming - I suppose I didn't expect Bioware to be that obvious, trivial and cliche. But then again we have Dragon Age 2 and I somehow am not surprised. Again considering ME3 is not out yet, I'm just speculating of course. I'm worried this time however.

What happened to the people that created story as rich as KotoR.

[AdmiralCheez]

Undertone wrote...

What happened to the people that created story as rich as KotoR.

Well, for that one they didn't have to make their own universe.

[Iakus]

InvaderErl wrote...

ME2 set up the Geth/Quarian war, it introduced Harbinger, the Illusive Man, and EDI. It created the possibility of a Genophage cure via Mordin's quest, it explained where the Reapers come from, it set up and followed through on the fall of the Shadowbroker and then the rise of Liara in his place. ME2 gave us insights into the Geth that we previously lacked. They've foreshadowed the importance of Dark Energy, and gave us a slew of new characters that will be appearing the 3rd game.

Geth/Quarian war:  Through optional quest.  Though I guess, who wouldn't want to hang with Tali?
Harbringer:  Voiceover who spends virtually all his time trash-talking Shepard.  Not much of an intro
The Illusive Man:  True
EDI:  Also true
Genophage cure:  Optional quest.  One of the better ones I'll grant you.
Where Reapers came from:  I must have missed something here...
Shadow Broker:  paid DLC.  Better than the entirety of ME 2, I'll grant you, but still costs extra.
Insights into the geth:  True, assuming you did LEgion's (optional) quest and didn't sell him
Dark Energy foreshadowing:  Also true, though it's kinda drowned out by hours and hours of shooting mercs.  Unless that was forshadowing too?
New characters:  I'm sure they'll fit in well in ME 3.  I just wish they fit in better in ME2...

Anyone that seriously believes that what happened in ME2 will just vanish into the ether is not paying attention.

/thread.

::looks at Mass Effect One::  How could I have thought that would happen?

[AdmiralCheez]

iakus wrote...

::looks at Mass Effect One::  How could I have thought that would happen?

ME2 n00b: GUYS!  Who the hell are Garrus and Tali, why are they my friends, and what the hell is a Reaper?!

Also Urdnot Wreav is stupid.

[lolwut666]

Ah yes, "the pointlessness of ME2".

We have dismissed that claim.

[Nashiktal]

Cerberus being your friend in ME2 was a step back, making them your enemies again might be another step, but we won't know until we get there.

Really though, if you pretend ME2 was played by a random cerberus employee the main plot makes a LOT more sense.

[ExtremeOne]

I agree with the Op . Unless Bioware has a logical and legit reason as to why Cerberus is the enemy in 3 then it might make sense . us renegade players need to be rewarded as well

[Il Divo]

iakus wrote...

Geth/Quarian war:  Through optional quest.  Though I guess, who wouldn't want to hang with Tali?
Genophage cure:  Optional quest.  One of the better ones I'll grant you.

Though optional, this content was all tied into the loyalty missions, which were given greater relevance in ME2 than ME1. Optional, yes. Irrelevant? Unlikely. The likelihood of the genophage cure (and whether your Shepard became involved) playing a role in Mass Effect 3 is much greater than Shepard's decision to kill Major Kyle and the similar irrelevant side quests in Mass Effect.

Your argument makes me think of Jade Empire. The student can potentially find out that Dawn Star is Master Li's daughter, which would constitute a relevant plot point, but overall this is completely optional content,like the loyalty missions.

Where Reapers came from:  I must have missed something here...

Yep, EDI explains it regarding how Organics are crushed into the material which makes up the Reaper.

Shadow Broker:  paid DLC.  Better than the entirety of ME 2, I'll grant you, but still costs extra.

I always do find it somewhat funny Iakus when users try to separate Shadowbroker as if it constitutes a separate instalment. It's like when people try to separate

Dark Energy foreshadowing:  Also true, though it's kinda drowned out by hours and hours of shooting mercs.  Unless that was forshadowing too?

Foreshadowing is foreshadowing, despite our witty comments.

::looks at Mass Effect One::  How could I have thought that would happen?

And how exactly did Mass Effect give us any indication where Mass Effect 2 was headed?

Hell, point out to me where Episode V was going using Episode IV. Last I checked, there was no hint of Yoda or Luke continuing his Jedi training from that.

[crimzontearz]

why are people forgetting the MANY ways that supposed paragon benefits coming from their decisions could blow up in paragons' faces?

just putting it out there

[Someone With Mass]

ExtremeOne wrote...

I agree with the Op . Unless Bioware has a logical and legit reason as to why Cerberus is the enemy in 3 then it might make sense . us renegade players need to be rewarded as well

Just because you're Renegade, doesn't make you an idiot (with exceptions). It's easy to tell that some choices might come back to bite you in the ass.

crimzontearz wrote...

why are people forgetting the MANY ways that supposed paragon benefits coming from their decisions could blow up in paragons' faces?

just putting it out there

Like the rachni.

People are whining over the smallest things.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 04 mai 2011 - 12:43 .

[crimzontearz]

Someone With Mass wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

I agree with the Op . Unless Bioware has a logical and legit reason as to why Cerberus is the enemy in 3 then it might make sense . us renegade players need to be rewarded as well

Just because you're Renegade, doesn't make you an idiot (with exceptions). It's easy to tell that some choices might come back to bite you in the ass.

crimzontearz wrote...

why are people forgetting the MANY ways that supposed paragon benefits coming from their decisions could blow up in paragons' faces?

just putting it out there

Like the rachni.

People are whining over the smallest things.

the GI article pretty much confirmed THAT is gonna blow up in our faces

[Iakus]

[quote]Il Divo wrote...

Though optional, this content was all tied into the loyalty missions, which were given greater relevance in ME2 than ME1. Optional, yes. Irrelevant? Unlikely. The likelihood of the genophage cure (and whether your Shepard became involved) playing a role in Mass Effect 3 is much greater than Shepard's decision to kill Major Kyle and the similar irrelevant side quests in Mass Effect.

Your argument makes me think of Jade Empire. The student can potentially find out that Dawn Star is Master Li's daughter, which would constitute a relevant plot point, but overall this is completely optional content,like the loyalty missions.[/quote]

Believe me, these are two of the three loyalty missions that I do find relevant in ME2.  I believe they will play a role in ME3.  However, being loyalty missions, they are skippable, and play no significant role in ME2.  In effect, it's killing time.

[quote]
Yep, EDI explains it regarding how Organics are crushed into the material which makes up the Reaper. [/quote]

Ah, EDI's omniscient speculation on "where baby Reapers come from"  Yes, but I was thinking of "where do Reapers come from" as in origin story.  motivations, chat with Lorien.  That sort of thing.

[quote]
I always do find it somewhat funny Iakus when users try to separate Shadowbroker as if it constitutes a separate instalment. It's like when people try to separate[/quote]

If it requires a seperate payment for the content, it's a seperate instalment, as far as I'm concerned.


[quote]Foreshadowing is foreshadowing, despite our witty comments. [/quote]

Well, at least someone admits I'm witty

But yes, dark energy is foreshadowing.  It may have something to do with the Reapers.  But there was very little of it compared to killing random mercs who had done nothing to me and have absolutely  nothing to do with Collectors, Reapers, or Protheans

[quote]
::looks at Mass Effect One::  How could I have thought that would happen? [/quote]

And how exactly did Mass Effect give us any indication where Mass Effect 2 was headed?

Hell, point out to me where Episode V was going using Episode IV. Last I checked, there was no hint of Yoda or Luke continuing his Jedi training from that.

[/quote]

Admittidly, not much.  I'm not sure if that's a flaw in ME 1 or ME 2.  But by that logic, how do we know anything in ME 2 is an indication as to where ME 3 is headed?  You see the problem here?

As for Star Wars...no evidence of Yoda.  but for other things, off the top of my head:

"You have taken your first step into a larger world"

"Remember, the Force will be with you.  Always"

"Either I'm going to kill her, or I'm beginning to like her!"

"Luke's just not a farmer, Owen.  He has too much of his father in him"
"That's what I'm afraid of"

Modifié par iakus, 04 mai 2011 - 01:04 .

[AdmiralCheez]

iakus, those lines could have just been lines that didn't foreshadow anything. Seriously. They are that generic.

[Iakus]

crimzontearz wrote...

why are people forgetting the MANY ways that supposed paragon benefits coming from their decisions could blow up in paragons' faces?

just putting it out there

I am fully prepared to accept any consequences for being a Paragon.  It wouldn't be the high road if it was easy!  Or as the saying goes:

"Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines"

[crimzontearz]

iakus wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

why are people forgetting the MANY ways that supposed paragon benefits coming from their decisions could blow up in paragons' faces?

just putting it out there

I am fully prepared to accept any consequences for being a Paragon.  It wouldn't be the high road if it was easy!  Or as the saying goes:

"Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines"

as am I but people are forgetting that

[Iakus]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

iakus, those lines could have just been lines that didn't foreshadow anything. Seriously. They are that generic.

Turned out to be far greater forshadowing, than, say UNC: Hades Dogs chat with eh Shadow Broker's agent...

[WizenSlinky0]

crimzontearz wrote...

the GI article pretty much confirmed THAT is gonna blow up in our faces

If I remember correctly we've been told the "decision could haunt you", not which side of the decision could haunt you

[AdmiralCheez]

iakus wrote...

Turned out to be far greater forshadowing, than, say UNC: Hades Dogs chat with eh Shadow Broker's agent...

How so?  Seriously, you are making a pretty big deal out of a few lines of script.

To be honest, I didn't have a problem with the lack of foreshadowing in ME1.  It really only left two loose ends, anyway: Cerberus and the Reapers.

[crimzontearz]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

the GI article pretty much confirmed THAT is gonna blow up in our faces

If I remember correctly we've been told the "decision could haunt you", not which side of the decision could haunt you

they also said they saw some "huskified rachni looking things"

[WizenSlinky0]

crimzontearz wrote...

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

the GI article pretty much confirmed THAT is gonna blow up in our faces

If I remember correctly we've been told the "decision could haunt you", not which side of the decision could haunt you

they also said they saw some "huskified rachni looking things"

Right, but your allies will obviously take losses during the war. Which the enemy than uses to make husks. That doesn't mean the addition of another fleet won't be a good thing overall.