Modifié par PnXMarcin1PL, 07 mai 2011 - 02:13 .
ME2 pointless in terms of ME3
Débuté par
Undertone
, mai 03 2011 10:33
#151
Posté 07 mai 2011 - 02:12
PnXMarcin1PL
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Fiery, you're not the only one who prefers ME instead of SW
Retour en haut
#152
Posté 07 mai 2011 - 06:44
TheRevanchist
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First of all...I find it odd that no one cares Cerberus was ret-conned from evil to "morally grey" for "no logical reason" to quote some folks, and is only returning to their original stance in 3.
Secondly...in reference to the Geth/ Quarian thing...Tali tells you in ME1 that the Geth were ALREADY on the verge of revolution BEFORE the Quarians ordered their dismantlement. You can go ahead and say "they just say that for sympathy"...but how do you know Legion and the Geth isn't doing the same? manipulateing organics to generate sympathy and support agaisnt their former masters and that in truth they harbor extreame hatred for the Quarians. After all they DID in turn attempt genocide agaisnt them and had no intentions of stoping until the Quarians were all extinct. IF they were truly "fighting for their right to exsist" then at some point they would have tried to enter peace talks and explain their motovations, knowing the war was clearly in their favor...instead they just kept mowing down Quarians like cannon fodder. I for one support the Quarians destroying the Geth....after the Reapers are gone. But thats another issue.
The same things can be said in defence of the Council's actions regarding both the Rachni and Krogan. Rachni at that time were mindless insects who only wanted to destroy everything that wasn't them, and would never ever stop until that became reality. Genocide in this case is really the only option to guarentee a peaceful future, as tragic as genocide is. I never personally condemed the Council for this course of action as it seems the only logical choice.
I also disaprove of the Genophage, however at the time the Councils options were again limited. As Mordin said...The Turian victory was incomplete and given the culture of the Krogan they would have attacked again once they had replenished. Considering the ferocity of Krogan warfare a second outbreak would be far too costly. As a result...given the situation of that time...and feeling guilty about the Rachni genocide realized that somthing like the Genophage was more merciful than wiping out their species, because it gave them the chance of continued exsistence. However the decline in Krogan population now days is only the fault of the Krogan's due to their refual to change their way of life to cope with their change in birthrates. However...since I'm sure most players realisticly didn't kill Wrex due to his awsomeness, The culture that Wrex is enforceing upon the Krogan represents a more stable system...thus meaning very soon the Genophage will no longer be needed and should be cured due to the horrible fact that it exsists, no matter how nessisary it was.
As for the Council being racist...I personaly don't see it that way. Racist against who exactly? Humans? I can see why given human nature, Humans feel entitled to everything and believe that if they want it they should have it and those who disagree will die. We're still racist toward each other in some places. Racist against Volus for not granting them a Council seat long ago? They lack the military requirements that are needed to be on the Council, and in fact rely on the Turians for protection. Racist against Krogan's? The Council kept that statue on the Persidium to honor the Krogan's valor agaisnt the Rachni, a racist white man would never build a statue to his slave if he killed some cattle rustlers on his land...because somthing like that would be expected, and would be punished or even killed if he failed to do so. That simple statue shows how much the Council respects a united Krogan people and would welcome such a thing with open arms. Proven by the parade in ME1 the Asari held for the Krogan to honor their victories...even inviteing Krogan to come to the celebrations as guests of honor.
The Council's "Ah, yes Reapers" situation? What makes you so sure they HAVE in fact dismissed it? Whos to say they didn't just tell Shepard that due to his cooperation with Cerberus and in fact have plans in motion preparing for the Reaper's arrivel? Whos to say thats not what the data in Keji Okuta's Greybox is? The Council's Reaper plans...considering it WAS info about Reapers. Behold the picture of Nazzara below
or from another angle
By the way...in regards to whoever said The Illusive man does not get personal? Sorry to burst your bubble but he does...Retribution is proof enough...he openly admits he picked Paul out of personal revenge for his betrayal, and considering Paul's betrayal is minor compaired to Paragon Shepards...whos to say The Illusive Man wouldn't send all of Cerberus after him? Also whoever wants to "disregard" the books and comics...sorry to burst your bubble as well but those are in fact canon...and are even mentioned in the games themselves.
The moral of this massive rant? The Council's track record is more sucssesful and fair minded then anything The Illusive Man or Cerberus will ever do. Cerberus as failed EVERY operation we know of except Lazerus.
However regarding the relevence of ME2 to the overall story? like many have said...thats impossible to determine until we play ME3...I apologize for the WALL O TEXT that most will probably skip and insult for being too long with a typical response like "blah blah blah paragon fanboy blah blah" or what have you. But I assure you I am no such thing, I view all these situations from a third party perspective. And Cerberus is an entity that is far more likely to hang you out to dry than the Council or Alliance. Yes yes go ahead and say "But the Alliance made Cerberus and the Corsairs". However Arrivel proves to me that there are high ranking Alliance officals who will always look out for you...*cough* Lance Hendrickson *cough* The same cannot be said for Cerberus since The Illusive Man has no line he will not cross to get what he wants. The fact that Cerberus is after you comes as no shock to me what-so-ever.
Secondly...in reference to the Geth/ Quarian thing...Tali tells you in ME1 that the Geth were ALREADY on the verge of revolution BEFORE the Quarians ordered their dismantlement. You can go ahead and say "they just say that for sympathy"...but how do you know Legion and the Geth isn't doing the same? manipulateing organics to generate sympathy and support agaisnt their former masters and that in truth they harbor extreame hatred for the Quarians. After all they DID in turn attempt genocide agaisnt them and had no intentions of stoping until the Quarians were all extinct. IF they were truly "fighting for their right to exsist" then at some point they would have tried to enter peace talks and explain their motovations, knowing the war was clearly in their favor...instead they just kept mowing down Quarians like cannon fodder. I for one support the Quarians destroying the Geth....after the Reapers are gone. But thats another issue.
The same things can be said in defence of the Council's actions regarding both the Rachni and Krogan. Rachni at that time were mindless insects who only wanted to destroy everything that wasn't them, and would never ever stop until that became reality. Genocide in this case is really the only option to guarentee a peaceful future, as tragic as genocide is. I never personally condemed the Council for this course of action as it seems the only logical choice.
I also disaprove of the Genophage, however at the time the Councils options were again limited. As Mordin said...The Turian victory was incomplete and given the culture of the Krogan they would have attacked again once they had replenished. Considering the ferocity of Krogan warfare a second outbreak would be far too costly. As a result...given the situation of that time...and feeling guilty about the Rachni genocide realized that somthing like the Genophage was more merciful than wiping out their species, because it gave them the chance of continued exsistence. However the decline in Krogan population now days is only the fault of the Krogan's due to their refual to change their way of life to cope with their change in birthrates. However...since I'm sure most players realisticly didn't kill Wrex due to his awsomeness, The culture that Wrex is enforceing upon the Krogan represents a more stable system...thus meaning very soon the Genophage will no longer be needed and should be cured due to the horrible fact that it exsists, no matter how nessisary it was.
As for the Council being racist...I personaly don't see it that way. Racist against who exactly? Humans? I can see why given human nature, Humans feel entitled to everything and believe that if they want it they should have it and those who disagree will die. We're still racist toward each other in some places. Racist against Volus for not granting them a Council seat long ago? They lack the military requirements that are needed to be on the Council, and in fact rely on the Turians for protection. Racist against Krogan's? The Council kept that statue on the Persidium to honor the Krogan's valor agaisnt the Rachni, a racist white man would never build a statue to his slave if he killed some cattle rustlers on his land...because somthing like that would be expected, and would be punished or even killed if he failed to do so. That simple statue shows how much the Council respects a united Krogan people and would welcome such a thing with open arms. Proven by the parade in ME1 the Asari held for the Krogan to honor their victories...even inviteing Krogan to come to the celebrations as guests of honor.
The Council's "Ah, yes Reapers" situation? What makes you so sure they HAVE in fact dismissed it? Whos to say they didn't just tell Shepard that due to his cooperation with Cerberus and in fact have plans in motion preparing for the Reaper's arrivel? Whos to say thats not what the data in Keji Okuta's Greybox is? The Council's Reaper plans...considering it WAS info about Reapers. Behold the picture of Nazzara below
or from another angle
By the way...in regards to whoever said The Illusive man does not get personal? Sorry to burst your bubble but he does...Retribution is proof enough...he openly admits he picked Paul out of personal revenge for his betrayal, and considering Paul's betrayal is minor compaired to Paragon Shepards...whos to say The Illusive Man wouldn't send all of Cerberus after him? Also whoever wants to "disregard" the books and comics...sorry to burst your bubble as well but those are in fact canon...and are even mentioned in the games themselves.
The moral of this massive rant? The Council's track record is more sucssesful and fair minded then anything The Illusive Man or Cerberus will ever do. Cerberus as failed EVERY operation we know of except Lazerus.
However regarding the relevence of ME2 to the overall story? like many have said...thats impossible to determine until we play ME3...I apologize for the WALL O TEXT that most will probably skip and insult for being too long with a typical response like "blah blah blah paragon fanboy blah blah" or what have you. But I assure you I am no such thing, I view all these situations from a third party perspective. And Cerberus is an entity that is far more likely to hang you out to dry than the Council or Alliance. Yes yes go ahead and say "But the Alliance made Cerberus and the Corsairs". However Arrivel proves to me that there are high ranking Alliance officals who will always look out for you...*cough* Lance Hendrickson *cough* The same cannot be said for Cerberus since The Illusive Man has no line he will not cross to get what he wants. The fact that Cerberus is after you comes as no shock to me what-so-ever.
Modifié par kylecouch, 07 mai 2011 - 06:44 .
#153
Posté 07 mai 2011 - 07:16
Moiaussi
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kylecouch wrote...
First of all...I find it odd that no one cares Cerberus was ret-conned from evil to "morally grey" for "no logical reason" to quote some folks, and is only returning to their original stance in 3.
Some of us disagree with both transitions and thus have problems with both ME2 and ME3
Others were Cerberus apologists even in ME1, so they see ME2 as a vindication and ME3 as an outrage.
#154
Posté 07 mai 2011 - 07:29
TheRevanchist
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How the hell can could ANYONE be a Cerberus aplogist in ME1?...I swear some people scare me...however you are correct...I however just want Bioware to make up their f***in mind on the issue and stick with it instead of changeing their minds every game. I for one found the ME1 Cerberus...the mysertious "evil" black Ops group far more interesting than the group thats presented in ME2...but thats just me.
Modifié par kylecouch, 07 mai 2011 - 07:30 .
