331 réponses à ce sujet

[Merced652]

Bible Doctor wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
I expressed almost the exact same thoughts a week or two ago in a similar thread. Sorry, it's not a hive mind. Some people actually aren't impressed with DA2 and Bioware's new direction. 

I can't speak on your arguments, as I haven't seen them and do not care to. But the majority of DA2 'hate' threads that appear on the forums are ridiculous. The majority of the people expressing their distaste for DA2, do it in the most childish and foolish manner i've ever seen. It literally boils down to 'lol this game sux, it's not exactly like the first game and that means Bioware is full of buttheads'. They are as bad if not worse than the people who blindly say that DA2 is a game without flaws and is the greatest thing since sliced bread, just to combat ignorance with ignorance.

People who discuss their problems with the game in an intelligent and constructive manner are few in number.

Yes, it is a hivemind.

Ohh ohhh i can play this game, its like my favorite! So the people who support DA2 represent their arguments in the most childish of manners; see maverick. Also, the ones who do outline their points well and defend them well are so few in number. But one thing they alllllll do is play the holier than thou card, ITS A HIVEMIND!!!!!212141251!!`````

[Arken]

Bible Doctor wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
I expressed almost the exact same thoughts a week or two ago in a similar thread. Sorry, it's not a hive mind. Some people actually aren't impressed with DA2 and Bioware's new direction. 

I can't speak on your arguments, as I haven't seen them and do not care to. But the majority of DA2 'hate' threads that appear on the forums are ridiculous. The majority of the people expressing their distaste for DA2, do it in the most childish and foolish manner i've ever seen. It literally boils down to 'lol this game sux, it's not exactly like the first game and that means Bioware is full of buttheads'. They are as bad if not worse than the people who blindly say that DA2 is a game without flaws and is the greatest thing since sliced bread, just to combat ignorance with ignorance.

People who discuss their problems with the game in an intelligent and constructive manner are few in number.

Yes, it is a hivemind.

I've tried to be fair with my assessment of the game.

[Ashira Shepard]

To quote from my rambling blog for OP.

TheRamblingGeek wrote...

"This isn’t the Dragon Age I know! Why has Bioware turned away from the original game so much!?”

Let me make this very clear; a writer is under no obligation to bend to a fan’s will. They write what they want, how they want, and are god damn happy with it. If they happen to throw something in that pleases you, it’s because they wanted to.

That being said, how is DA2 not Dragon Age? The Qunari are still about, so are the mages, templars, the ass backwards chantry, the Dalish and city elves…I’m confused. It still looks like Dragon Age to me. It’s just a different area of the Dragon Age world. Did you expect everywhere to look like Ferelden? I have to say, if the Devs set the next game in Antiva, it would again look very different because Antiva is a desert country.

And-

TheRamblingGeek wrote...

"Dragon Age 2 is dumbed down just like Mass Effect 2!” – hold on, how? You can still pretty much nerd all over the talent trees in DA2 where you were lucky to have more than five four slot talent upgrades in ME2. You actually have an INVENTORY in DA2 rather than not in ME2. You can still pause the combat and tweak tactics so your teammates know what to do and when. You could pause in ME2, but did you have customizable tactics? No, you did not. The most you could do with teammates was tell them where to stand and tell them when to use their skills and upon whom. In Dragon Age you can take full control of any in your team and do whatever you decide with their skills, move them around the field in the exact place you wish and do anything.

It’s a little less clunky, that’s about the only difference. It is definitely not nearly as cut down as ME2 was and while  we’re on ME2, I have to admit that yes, I liked the upgraded combat mechanics.

Also-

TheRamblingGeek wrote...

Usually what I expect from an RPG is a mixture of letting me make dialogue and story related choices (bonus points for karma choices), customization of how my character looks physically and yeah, being able to pick weapons and armour is nice. I like it when I’m allowed to chose my abilities and tweak them to my liking, but I don’t really care for it. Ultimately that isn’t what I see as role-playing, it’s just added bells and whistles to me. They’re nice but useless in making the character in my head; unless they actually do something.

Sir TankAndSpank being able to shield bash the enemy for an extra two damage and a chance to daze them is gameplay mechanic = not roleplaying.

I think the problem might lie with people’s inability or unwillingness to work with what they have.

And finally-

TheRamblingGeek wrote...

In addendum, there is no need to keep filling up the forums with flame bait and angry threads, there was some stuff you liked and some you didn’t…

Here's the whole blog.

If you'll excuse me I'll go hide in my flame bunker now.

Modifié par AshiraShepard, 04 mai 2011 - 03:20 .

[Merced652]

I like this new age "deal with it" mantra. Good thing women and rosa parks didn't like this sentiment. Circumstances are different, LOGIC IS THE SAME. 

Modifié par Merced652, 04 mai 2011 - 03:20 .

[Agamo45]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

*snipped my funny Mario pic*

If not, what about the fact that they're at least taking time to make good Story DLC? No? Ok, bye. 

 So many things wrong with that.

I don't really see how. They didn't like how they rushed development of the game, so they're taking time to make sure they at least get the DLC part right. That should speak enough about the staff. They could've just said "Well we rushed this game. Let's not even put any effort into the DLC. Not like it will matter anyway." But they didn't. So I fail to see what is wrong with that.

That remains to be seen. We haven't seen any dlc yet.

[Paraxial]

Arken wrote...
I've tried to be fair with my assessment of the game.

Good to hear? There are plenty of people who discuss the game in an intelligent and constructive manner, i'm not denying that. I'm saying that they are vastly outnumbered by the people that don't.

Merced652 wrote...
Ohh ohhh i can play this game, its like my favorite! So the people who support DA2 represent their arguments in the most childish of manners; see maverick. Also, the ones who do outline their points well and defend them well are so few in number. But one thing they alllllll do is play the holier than thou card, ITS A HIVEMIND!!!!!212141251!!`````

Cocaine is a hell of a drug.

[TEWR]

Agamo45 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

*snipped my funny Mario pic*

If not, what about the fact that they're at least taking time to make good Story DLC? No? Ok, bye. 

 So many things wrong with that.

I don't really see how. They didn't like how they rushed development of the game, so they're taking time to make sure they at least get the DLC part right. That should speak enough about the staff. They could've just said "Well we rushed this game. Let's not even put any effort into the DLC. Not like it will matter anyway." But they didn't. So I fail to see what is wrong with that.

That remains to be seen. We haven't seen any dlc yet.

Well if they do rush this DLC that they're currently working on and it's an incredible pile of feces defecated from a bovine animal, then I suspect they will lose a lot of fans.


Also, what did people hate about DA:O story DLC? I've seen a lot of hatred and contempt shown for those, but I don't know why.

[Arken]

Mr.House wrote...

Arken wrote...

The real problem isn't the gameplay changes. I'm fine with gameplay changes. It's the lack of effort that wen into making Dragon Age II.

They put alot of effort into a game that had a very short dev time. The big issue with DA2 is it's short dev time. A RPG is not a shooter, you can't just rush one each year. RPGs take time and care, EA failed to relise that and it's bitting them in the ass.

It's the fact that it was made in such short time. Only so much effort can be put in with so little time. I've never said I hated Dragon Age II. I mean the series lacks any originality in setting, gameplay, and innovations.

The thing is that a good sequel should try to build on its predecessor. Our tone of voice changes when Hawke speaks. That was Dragon Age II's big innovation. That's it. Nothing new other than that. I mean there are good things. Crafting is improved, and so is the dog.

Although Mike Laidlaw literally said he chose to have repeated levels. I mean come on. Couldn't he have shifted resources away from all those fetch side-quests to hire a few more level designers. I expected a decent game and maybe a very good game. But some of the design choices were just plain dumb. Again regardless of how much extra money and time you gave Bioware certain things remain the same. Some things were clearly intentional, and that is what hurts the most. That a lot of dedicated developers slaved over this game for eighteen months to have their work amount to hate threads, and poor reviews. It's not fair for them. They tried. 

[AngryFrozenWater]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

Really? So you're telling me its impossible to be loyal at point A, but due to circumstances not be loyal by point B? Its totally binary?

"I bought a dozen games from you that I loved, but I don't like this one, so I'm finished with the IP," isn't loyalty. That's like saying you're loyal to your friends but only when they're fun to be around.

You and your friend share the good times. You stand with your friend in rough times. You can try to change your friend's mind if you think that he or she needs it. If you do that right then friendship and respect grows over the years. But a company is no friend. The company profits from your loyalty. The company may profit in the future from your feedback. However, if a company is not responding to you as a customer or is putting you aside because they found one with more to spend then the only thing left is voting with your wallet. To me the difference is clear.

[KBomb]

Merced652 wrote...


Ohh ohhh i can play this game, its like my favorite! So the people who support DA2 represent their arguments in the most childish of manners; see maverick. Also, the ones who do outline their points well and defend them well are so few in number. But one thing they alllllll do is play the holier than thou card, ITS A HIVEMIND!!!!!212141251!!`````

Hello Point, you’ve been missed.

[JabbaDaHutt30]

AshiraShepard wrote...

To quote from my rambling blog for OP.

TheRamblingGeek wrote...

"This isn’t the Dragon Age I know! Why has Bioware turned away from the original game so much!?”

Let me make this very clear; a writer is under no obligation to bend to a fan’s will. They write what they want, how they want, and are god damn happy with it. If they happen to throw something in that pleases you, it’s because they wanted to.

That being said, how is DA2 not Dragon Age? The Qunari are still about, so are the mages, templars, the ass backwards chantry, the Dalish and city elves…I’m confused. It still looks like Dragon Age to me. It’s just a different area of the Dragon Age world. Did you expect everywhere to look like Ferelden? I have to say, if the Devs set the next game in Antiva, it would again look very different because Antiva is a desert country.

And-

TheRamblingGeek wrote...

"Dragon Age 2 is dumbed down just like Mass Effect 2!” – hold on, how? You can still pretty much nerd all over the talent trees in DA2 where you were lucky to have more than five four slot talent upgrades in ME2. You actually have an INVENTORY in DA2 rather than not in ME2. You can still pause the combat and tweak tactics so your teammates know what to do and when. You could pause in ME2, but did you have customizable tactics? No, you did not. The most you could do with teammates was tell them where to stand and tell them when to use their skills and upon whom. In Dragon Age you can take full control of any in your team and do whatever you decide with their skills, move them around the field in the exact place you wish and do anything.

It’s a little less clunky, that’s about the only difference. It is definitely not nearly as cut down as ME2 was and while  we’re on ME2, I have to admit that yes, I liked the upgraded combat mechanics.

Also-

TheRamblingGeek wrote...

Usually what I expect from an RPG is a mixture of letting me make dialogue and story related choices (bonus points for karma choices), customization of how my character looks physically and yeah, being able to pick weapons and armour is nice. I like it when I’m allowed to chose my abilities and tweak them to my liking, but I don’t really care for it. Ultimately that isn’t what I see as role-playing, it’s just added bells and whistles to me. They’re nice but useless in making the character in my head; unless they actually do something.

Sir TankAndSpank being able to shield bash the enemy for an extra two damage and a chance to daze them is gameplay mechanic = not roleplaying.

I think the problem might lie with people’s inability or unwillingness to work with what they have.

And finally-

TheRamblingGeek wrote...

In addendum, there is no need to keep filling up the forums with flame bait and angry threads, there was some stuff you liked and some you didn’t…

Here's the whole blog.

If you'll excuse me I'll go hide in my flame bunker now.

Some of the reasoning from that blog is s***ball asinine.

[Ashira Shepard]

Merced652 wrote...

I like this new age "deal with it" mantra. Good thing women and rosa parks didn't like this sentiment. Circumstances are different, LOGIC IS THE SAME. 

I only use it because I am tired seeing people complain about everything, everywhere. Damn it people, life is good - smile a little, hug someone, watch something funny. Lighten up.

There are people out there who can't drink water for fear of getting sick and children who in danger of being preyed on during their over-10-mile walk to school. Granted some of them were given bikes now but that's besides the point.

There's worse **** to complain about.

Modifié par AshiraShepard, 04 mai 2011 - 03:30 .

[Merced652]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

*snipped my funny Mario pic*

If not, what about the fact that they're at least taking time to make good Story DLC? No? Ok, bye. 

 So many things wrong with that.

I don't really see how. They didn't like how they rushed development of the game, so they're taking time to make sure they at least get the DLC part right. That should speak enough about the staff. They could've just said "Well we rushed this game. Let's not even put any effort into the DLC. Not like it will matter anyway." But they didn't. So I fail to see what is wrong with that.

That remains to be seen. We haven't seen any dlc yet.

Well if they do rush this DLC that they're currently working on and it's an incredible pile of feces defecated from a bovine animal, then I suspect they will lose a lot of fans.


Also, what did people hate about DA:O story DLC? I've seen a lot of hatred and contempt shown for those, but I don't know why.

Did you not play Witch Hunt?

45 minutes of gameplay, no real "end to your warden's story" as was billed, AND the best was that there wasn't even a post game same to flag whether your warden went through the mirror, attempted to kill her, or anything else. The last save is before you even speak with her. So that 'awesome' story dlc didn't have much of a story at all and left a pretty bad taste in peoples mouth concerning the end of their warden's story. Particularly for those who did romance morrigan. 

Modifié par Merced652, 04 mai 2011 - 03:31 .

[devSin]

mrcrusty wrote...

NWN = Neverwinter Nights. So yes, Bioware too.

BioWare didn't do that. It was community work that BioWare released in a patch (a lot of the later work wasn't done by BioWare). And they added bugs to the campaigns besides (damn you, PC Properties!), so I personally think I can live just fine without that kind of "content" in their patches.

I think BW TX was made wwhen EA bought them, maybe for the TOR project. And If you read my lousy pararaphs, I said I like ME, and I didn't like DA2. But, with DA2, I am going to be more cautious when it comes to buying bioware games.

BioWare Austin predates EA by FAR. It was after NWN was finished (James Ohlen defected there soon afterward; maybe Trent Oster and other forgotten persons).

There are names like John Winski and Kevin Martens and such, who worked on the Baldur's Gate series and Neverwinter Nights (meaning "who are responsible for BioWare even still existing"), who should be working on Dragon Age but are apparently gone or betrayed us to the MMO. But the treasures like Luke and David and Rob Bartel (why always the last name on the list?) and Mark Darrah and Scott Meadows (Don Moar, where are you?) and Owen Borstad (Mac & Linux NWN, w00t!), even Yaron and Mike (they did stuff for NWN at some point; maybe we can even get Georg back if stupid TOR ever gets finished), are still there and work on DA, not ME. ME just has Drew (and if that's the way he wants to play, then they can keep him).

Modifié par devSin, 04 mai 2011 - 04:15 .

[JabbaDaHutt30]

AshiraShepard wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

I like this new age "deal with it" mantra. Good thing women and rosa parks didn't like this sentiment. Circumstances are different, LOGIC IS THE SAME. 

There are people out there who can't drink water for fear of getting sick and children who in danger of being preyed on during their over-10-mile walk to schoo. Granted some of them were given bikes now but that's besides the point.

My heart is hurting. Really, I need to give it a good shake.

[Mr.House]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

Really? So you're telling me its impossible to be loyal at point A, but due to circumstances not be loyal by point B? Its totally binary?

"I bought a dozen games from you that I loved, but I don't like this one, so I'm finished with the IP," isn't loyalty. That's like saying you're loyal to your friends but only when they're fun to be around.

You and your friend share the good times. You stand with your friend in rough times. You can try to change your friend's mind if you think that he or she needs it. If you do that right then friendship and respect grows over the years. But a company is no friend. The company profits from your loyalty. The company may profit in the future from your feedback. However, if a company is not responding to you as a customer or is putting you aside because they found one with more to spend then the only thing left is voting with your wallet. To me the difference is clear.

If said friend is having a hard time and bad mouths me, then I will let them be until they are ready to talk.

[Ashira Shepard]

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...
Some of the reasoning from that blog is s***ball asinine.

*shrug* Your opinion. I just want people to stop complaining and needed to rant somewhere, and I know there are people who agree with that blog.

"Dragon Age 2 will not feature the Warden as hero."
Me: *shrug* New story, alright.

"Dragon Age 2 has a streamlined combat system."
Me: Ah, hope things will be smoother this time round.

"Bioware betrayed me!"
Me: *facepalm*

[Bitterfoam]

AshiraShepard wrote...

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...
Some of the reasoning from that blog is s***ball asinine.

*shrug* Your opinion. I just want people to stop complaining and needed to rant somewhere, and I know there are people who agree with that blog.

"Dragon Age 2 will not feature the Warden as hero."
Me: *shrug* New story, alright.

"Dragon Age 2 has a streamlined combat system."
Me: Ah, hope things will be smoother this time round.

"Bioware betrayed me!"
Me: *facepalm*

I agree with your blog.

[hoorayforicecream]

I don't have to pay my friends to spend time with me. If you do, I don't think they are really your friends.

[Ashira Shepard]

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...
My heart is hurting. Really, I need to give it a good shake.

I've been up all night if you're referring to the missing letters.

I was trying to make a point. There are worse things to complain about than "omg, they changed it now it sucks!"

Or at least people could try not to sound like they want to set Bioware staff on fire for the obviously terrible crime that is DA2.

Modifié par AshiraShepard, 04 mai 2011 - 03:36 .

[Bitterfoam]

Merced652 wrote...

Did you not play Witch Hunt?

45 minutes of gameplay, no real "end to your warden's story" as was billed, AND the best was that there wasn't even a post game same to flag whether your warden went through the mirror, attempted to kill her, or anything else. The last save is before you even speak with her. So that 'awesome' story dlc didn't have much of a story at all and left a pretty bad taste in peoples mouth concerning the end of their warden's story. Particularly for those who did romance morrigan. 

I played Witch Hunt. I have a post-game save.

[Mr.House]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

I don't have to pay my friends to spend time with me. If you do, I don't think they are really your friends.

Where I live, we call those money suckers.

[DAO MAdhatter]

Terror_K wrote...

After reading Laidlaw's comments in the May Game Informer that's what I've decided. As long as this guy is in charge and continues to think without apology that DA2 was a step in the right direction I have no interest in the Dragon Age universe any more. And if his opinions on what happened to DA2, what those of us who feel it's "dumbed down" should think and do, and where RPGs are going now are indicative and representative of BioWare as a whole, then I get the feeling once ME3 is out the door I'll be done with BioWare as a company too.

You guys brought me in with Baldur's Gate, and I've bought almost every one of your games since. I've been a long and loyal fan and sung your praises for over a decade, but the last few years have felt like a betrayal, first with Mass Effect 2 becoming "Fisher Price: My First RPG" and more recently with the shallow, mainstreamlined abomination that is Dragon Age 2. And what bothers me more is not the fact of how disappointing the game was, but that the people behind it can't even admit to its faults and one of the main guys in charge has the gall to constantly imply that it's our fault and that he and his team could do no wrong.

Sorry, but enough is enough. I can only be loyal and respectful to a company for so long, and when they seem to constantly and without apology stab me in the back, it gets to a point where I just say, "no more!" If you're going to give me the middle-finger for no other reason than to appeal to a more mainstream, action-oriented audience then I can give it right back and walk away.

So that's it. For me the entire Dragon Age IP consists of merely two novels, one game and an expansion. A shame, since it had so much potential, only to be wasted with retooling and rebooting. PM me in a few years if you stop pandering to the mainstream and start making deep RPGs again instead of dumbing everything down for the masses. If you want me back I'll probably be wandering somewhere between Bethesda and Obsidian. They may not quite deserve the worship that BioWare once did, but they sure deserve my time and money more than they do at the moment.

Ironic that a company that so cherises such things as morality and loyalty can't even practice what it preaches...

BioWare +50 Renegade points
Terror_K disapproves -50
Loyalty Lost

Nice.. . Your trashing a game youve never even played .A+ for making your self look like an uutter douche.

[TEWR]

Merced652 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

*snipped my funny Mario pic*

If not, what about the fact that they're at least taking time to make good Story DLC? No? Ok, bye. 

 So many things wrong with that.

I don't really see how. They didn't like how they rushed development of the game, so they're taking time to make sure they at least get the DLC part right. That should speak enough about the staff. They could've just said "Well we rushed this game. Let's not even put any effort into the DLC. Not like it will matter anyway." But they didn't. So I fail to see what is wrong with that.

That remains to be seen. We haven't seen any dlc yet.

Well if they do rush this DLC that they're currently working on and it's an incredible pile of feces defecated from a bovine animal, then I suspect they will lose a lot of fans.


Also, what did people hate about DA:O story DLC? I've seen a lot of hatred and contempt shown for those, but I don't know why.

Did you not play Witch Hunt?

45 minutes of gameplay, no real "end to your warden's story" as was billed, AND the best was that there wasn't even a post game same to flag whether your warden went through the mirror, attempted to kill her, or anything else. The last save is before you even speak with her. So that 'awesome' story dlc didn't have much of a story at all and left a pretty bad taste in peoples mouth concerning the end of their warden's story. Particularly for those who did romance morrigan. 

I played Witch Hunt. I thought it did do an autosave immediately after the talk with her. I don't know. I will admit that the ending was fairly cheap. I like my Warden going through the Eluvian to raise his kid, but if that's all that there is then no I don't consider it the end of my Warden's story whether the devs say so or not. Especially when DA2 talks about the Warden's disappearance.

But if that's the only DLC people hated from Origins, then they are idiots for calling all Origins DLC crap when that was the only one they hated. The story for it was decent/good up until they made the Warden walk through the mirror and then just arbitrarily end it. So in the end, while I wasn't ecstatic about Witch Hunt, I was at least mildly satisfied, albeit disappointed as well.

how much did Witch Hunt cost though?

[Maria Caliban]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

I don't have to pay my friends to spend time with me. If you do, I don't think they are really your friends.

Next you're going to say my girlfriend isn't my girlfriend because I pay to have sex with her.

You obviously don't truly value your friends!