331 réponses à ce sujet

[Terror_K]

simfamSP wrote...

That breaks the definition of loyal doesn't it? If you are you'll stick with them even if they did kind of screw up.

There's screwing up. Then there's screwing up repeatedly, not admitting that it's a screw up or apologising for it, and then basically saying, "and we'll continue to do it this way from now on."

[TEWR]

I just wikipedia'd this Jade Empire I keep seeing.


I couldn't read that much. It didn't look good at all, sound good, or anything. It kinda made me want to barf.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

I just wonder what they'll say in the lead up to Dragon Age 3. For me that will be much more important to any comments they give out now.

[ChickenDownUnder]

Well, if the OP feels cheated, then she should very well move on. Sometimes getting away from a source of drama (IE, internet forums and really bad game PR) can do wonders.

Yes, some of those Laidlaw interviews were terrible and doing the exact opposite of what it should have (further alienating people instead of shining light on the things the game does do well), but when you sit down to actually play a game you don't have Laidlaw sitting next to you. Hopefully. Otherwise that would just be weird and creepy... I was going somewhere meaningful with this, but I kind-of forgot already.

So... uh, step back, go do the things you do find enjoyable. Sad to see you go, but at least one chicken wont blame you for it.

Modifié par ChickenDownUnder, 04 mai 2011 - 06:31 .

[Terror_K]

simfamSP wrote...

Well, you can't just expect Mike to say 'hello there IGN, I'm just here to say that I'm a total idiot for doing this to Dragon Age!"

Just remember all the factors that lead to these rushed things *cough* EA's deadline *cough*

While I have no doubt that EA wanting it out fast was a definite factor in it, that doesn't change what Laidlaw has said about the game and Dragon Age as a whole. Unless EA has a gun to his temple the past year or so, he's said far too much to indicate that he was not only fully aware of what he was doing but intentionally did it and really thought it was all for the best, and still does. If his vision of the future of RPGs really is BioWare's vision of the future of RPGs, then BioWare RPGs have no future for me.

[marshalleck]

simfamSP wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

That breaks the definition of loyal doesn't it? If you are you'll stick with them even if they did kind of screw up.

There's screwing up. Then there's screwing up repeatedly, not admitting that it's a screw up or apologising for it, and then basically saying, "and we'll continue to do it this way from now on."

Well, you can't just expect Mike to say 'hello there IGN, I'm just here to say that I'm a total idiot for doing this to Dragon Age!"

Just remember all the factors that lead to these rushed things *cough* EA's deadline *cough*

In my opinion Mr. Laidlaw's comments are of least concern. He's the lead designer, so by default he's drinking the kool-aid. He'll have nothing useful to say.

Rather, we should look at what Bioware have been doing. ME2 was streamlined to the point of stupidity (companions wearing their civvies in space with just a simple gas mask?), Dragon Age 2 followed the general trend, and while Christina Norman has acknowledged there will be "deeper RPG mechanics" involved with ME3, the actual resutl of this remains to be seen. I think we all know it will be closer to ME2 than ME1, however. Especially with Chud making retarded comments like the final chapter of a trilogy being a great time to bring in a new audience. When you have multiple lead designers making direct or implied references to attracting the CoD/Farmville crowd, one simply has to wonder if this is Bioware's new internal mandate or philosophy for game design. It certainly makes me uncomfortable, and obviously I'm not the only one thinking Bioware are unlikely to produce a game in the future similar to the ones from the past that lead me to be a Bioware fan in the first place. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 04 mai 2011 - 06:39 .

[wildannie]

I get that you don't like the flippant tone Mike Laidlaw seems to take against valid criticism, but, as has been said many times before, he's not going to apologize and it would be madness to do so.

The game is deeply flawed and nowhere near the quality of Origins but it is not without merit and is still good in a broader context (IMO). To apologize in an interview would discourage those gamers who have never played a DA game from giving it a go and that would be a very silly thing to do.

I think, if there's ever to be any kind of apology to the core fans it will be in actions rather than words. Look to the changes made in any expansion or, more likely, in DA3. It is only then that we will know how much they took the criticisms to heart.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

I don't know about the idea that this is suddenly a new direction for Bioware.

Ever since KotOR, they have been slowly moving in this direction. It's only now becoming massively obvious in ME 2 and DA 2. I personally don't mind it in ME 2 as I see it as a shooter, but DA to myself and many, is a different story.

@marshelleck:

Kreia ftw.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 04 mai 2011 - 06:43 .

[TRUTHMACHINE]

Terror_K wrote...

After reading Laidlaw's comments in the May Game Informer that's what I've decided. As long as this guy is in charge and continues to think without apology that DA2 was a step in the right direction I have no interest in the Dragon Age universe any more. And if his opinions on what happened to DA2, what those of us who feel it's "dumbed down" should think and do, and where RPGs are going now are indicative and representative of BioWare as a whole, then I get the feeling once ME3 is out the door I'll be done with BioWare as a company too.

You guys brought me in with Baldur's Gate, and I've bought almost every one of your games since. I've been a long and loyal fan and sung your praises for over a decade, but the last few years have felt like a betrayal, first with Mass Effect 2 becoming "Fisher Price: My First RPG" and more recently with the shallow, mainstreamlined abomination that is Dragon Age 2. And what bothers me more is not the fact of how disappointing the game was, but that the people behind it can't even admit to its faults and one of the main guys in charge has the gall to constantly imply that it's our fault and that he and his team could do no wrong.

Sorry, but enough is enough. I can only be loyal and respectful to a company for so long, and when they seem to constantly and without apology stab me in the back, it gets to a point where I just say, "no more!" If you're going to give me the middle-finger for no other reason than to appeal to a more mainstream, action-oriented audience then I can give it right back and walk away.

So that's it. For me the entire Dragon Age IP consists of merely two novels, one game and an expansion. A shame, since it had so much potential, only to be wasted with retooling and rebooting. PM me in a few years if you stop pandering to the mainstream and start making deep RPGs again instead of dumbing everything down for the masses. If you want me back I'll probably be wandering somewhere between Bethesda and Obsidian. They may not quite deserve the worship that BioWare once did, but they sure deserve my time and money more than they do at the moment.

Ironic that a company that so cherises such things as morality and loyalty can't even practice what it preaches...

BioWare +50 Renegade points
Terror_K disapproves -50
Loyalty Lost

welcome to the club!

[Corto81]

Terror_K wrote...

If his vision of the future of RPGs really is BioWare's vision of the future of RPGs, then BioWare RPGs have no future for me.

In a nutshell, I think that's what the most people who aren't happy with DA II have been trying to say.

My biggest (or maybe only) hope is that BW can't be blind to the lower sales and worst ratings of all their recent games.
And that the Gaider-led writer team HAS to know they can do and they DID do better than what they brought us in DA2.

I mean, even if it comes down to the numbers...
Stick to your RPG fans and you sell what, 3.5-4 million.
Alienate them and lose the majority, they will NOT sell anywhere near the copies needed to make up for lost customers.

Not to mention a LOT of DA2 sales are from pre-orders (mine included) and I think there's gonna be a lot of people out there who won't be pre-ordering BW games but waiting for reviews after this.

...

But yeah, BW hooked me with RPGs.
If I wanna play action, interactive-movies or shooters, I play UC, AC, CoD, etc.

Personally, I think Laidlaw is just dead wrong in his estimate how the game should look.
There's still a huge audience out there for proper RPGs, and hopefully  they realize that.

[delikanli]

do not feed biodrones..

[neppakyo]

delikanli wrote...

do not feed biodrones..

That comment is about as useful as ****** on a nun..

..technically so was this comment.

But I agree with Corto, quite a few are dismayed at this course BW rpgs are headed.

Modifié par neppakyo, 04 mai 2011 - 07:05 .

[Euno17]

This hasn't been locked yet? That's surprising.

I do agree with the OP on this one. I'll probably be done with Bioware once ME 3 comes out.

After all, with EA controlling things on top - there is a high probability that Bioware will make a few more games and then be shut in like previous EA divisions.

What exactly is Bioware going to make after the MMO launches? That's the question. Inany case, I can't see Bioware making another decent franchise (much less great) with EA breathing down their necks.

[Seitur]

I do agree with OP as well. Unfortunetally I am done with Bioware as well, I am not interested in ME3 & Swtor as well so that's it for me. That's real shame as some BW games were the best ones I played especially Baldur's Gate dylogy.

Only thing I will do Is I will check once every few months or so, if people currently making decisions in Bioware are still on their positions , and I will maybe check demos or reviews of some future BW games and see if they make annother attempt to go into direction of BG style (like partially DAO was) but only because there is very small number of solo wrpg's on market.

Farewell BW , you disapointed me greatly.

[marshalleck]

simfamSP wrote...

But I don't see the thing with ME2 is all about? It's intended to be that way. To me it's been a shooter, I saw no difference in ME and ME2. 'Exploring' was overrated to the point that you'd think were in a Beth game. And equipment wasn't all that 'big' either to me. 

Tell me, what do you see when you first glance at ME? An Action RPG or a CRPG? ME2 had great gameplay and a great story at that, with an amazing climax at the end, it's by far one of the best looking games I've played and the companions are in no way lesser to it's pre-quel.

Respectfully, I don't want to bog down this thread with a discussion of what I did and didn't like about Mass Effect 2. 

What I liked: graphics were polished quite a bit, lots of technical under-the-hood improvements and tweaks made to the Unreal engine to enhance performance, improve visual quality, and reduce stutters and texture pop. Combat was vastly improved, although somewhat questionable with the defenses vs. biotic powers thing on hardcore/insanity. 

What I didn't like: Just read this, it sums everything up well. 

I think that the later generations should give up in the whole BG business. While I LOVE that game, it just won't do well in the market. But there are still ways of implementing it but with the price of being 'simpler' and that is DA:O, and I LOVED that game too.

Baldur's Gate is okay. When it comes to old school 2d isometric view RPGs, Planescape Torment and the two Fallout titles will always top my list. I'm actually okay with shooter-RPG hybrids--Deus Ex is one of my all time favorite games. System Shock 2 being the other. Mass Effect (the first one) is up there in terms of overall experience, but ME2 fell short big time on the story/writing side. Especially with that ****ing Space Terminator. WTF. How stupid do they think I am? I'm sorry, but to quote Shepard: "I haven't been shot in the head nearly enough times to make that sound like a good idea." 

Meh. Enough about Mass Effect. I don't want to derail this thread.

mrcrusty wrote...

@marshelleck:

Kreia ftw.

Indeed. Best, most interesting character in the entire Star Wars canon. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 04 mai 2011 - 07:30 .

[jimmy_smith]

scenario 1

DA:III will not come out so soon
Not because it will take more time to product, but because DA:II is commercial fail compare to DA:O(look at the sale number)
DA IP will get freeze for a while.

scenario 2
DA:III come out at rush speed, maybe next year?
Because DA:II is still at moderate sale despite that it's a half-finish and so-so game.(BW and DA:O rep help it)
then DA IP will become a "quick cash product" for BW and EA for a while untill it's can't sale anymore
From my exp they can still sale DA for 2 or 3 more titles untill it's die.
product that can sale itself, no matter what quality. and this cheap trick can play for years
Not bad for business,right?

pick your poison

Modifié par jimmy_smith, 04 mai 2011 - 07:32 .

[UltiPup]

Terror_K wrote...
Loyalty Lost

And nothing of value was lost.

[Kilshrek]

UltiPup wrote...

Terror_K wrote...
Loyalty Lost

And nothing of value was lost.

You'd be surprised what loyalty gets you down the line. Of course loyalty is a two way street. Only fools expect blind loyalty.

[LiquidGrape]

Yawn.

Play the world's smallest violin, why don't you?

The company does not somehow owe you anything personally. You are not entitled to a particular brand of game. If you find you do not respond to its recent output, by all means, do pursue another outlet. If you consider yourself a discerning consumer, that is easily the proper course of action. But don't act like a spoiled child and make-believe you have been the subject of some kind of Shakespearean betrayal.

That's just silly.

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 04 mai 2011 - 08:49 .

[Phaedros]

NotEvenAmused wrote...

OP nailed it. I followed Bioware for years, since Baldur's Gate actually, and have day-1 bought all their games. I even loved Jade Empire.

But this pile of crap...I can't even fathom it Nothing about this game is good or a step forward. Nothing.

The only thing that would satisfy me at this point would be a flat-out admission that DA2 was a disaster and a promise to never go down that road again.

Also, fire Mike Laidlaw.

+1  with bells on..

[SirGladiator]

If they play their cards right, and I'm pretty sure they're going to try, the DA Franchise can and will become the Madden of RPGs, a new and improved one every single year. This year we got a new one, and improved in certain ways, but not improved overall. But that happens with Madden too, they won't all actually be improvements over the previous year, but they will inevitably improve over time, as will the sales. The first DA was Bioware's most successful game ever, it still is, and probably still will be until DA3 comes out, if not longer. But if DA3 takes the best of DAO, the best of DA2, jettisons the really bad/dumb mistakes, improves the storyline/writing back to DAO standards, etc. then Im pretty sure that all the loyalty that they lost with some people will be more than back. They tried things a certain way, it worked. They tried things another way, it didn't work. They know where to go from here, I expect DA3 to be back to the super awesomeness that we've come to expect, and maybe their best ever!