317 réponses à ce sujet

[Carmen_Willow]

@Payene - When you wrote "why bother," I could only nod my head in agreement. Your assessment is the reason why I started a thread about the lack of "normal" love interests a few weeks ago. I love romance in the games, but I really don't much care to spend my entire romance being someone's shrink or nanny. With this game, you could pretty much choose between those roles. Aveline and Varrick and Sebastian are the only ones who remotely resemble stable personalities. You can't romance two of them, and the idea of a chaste marriage leaves me.....bored.

As did babysitting Anders and Fenris.....

[Paeyne]

Maladismal wrote...

Without actually trying to adhere to the principles they teach, reclaming their lost heritage, the Dalish are a people with no future.

Pehaps they don't have much of a future.

The dead Dailish in my playthrough certainly don't, unless Hawke lies and takes responsiblity for Merrill's actions.

Merrill certainly has the right to die for her principles.   As my Hawke said, she doesn't have the right to choose who pays for her mistakes.  In this she is no different that Anders.  She took a course of action, she would not be disuaded from that course and innocent people paid the price.

How many more would have paid the price if the demon had succeeded in possessing Merrill.

I really don't understand how people can defend someone who is so uncomprehending of the consequenses of their actions.  Being "sweet" is not a defense.  Had I the option I would have handed her to the Dalish on a platter and walked away.

[Paeyne]

Carmen_Willow wrote...

@Payene - When you wrote "why bother," I could only nod my head in agreement. Your assessment is the reason why I started a thread about the lack of "normal" love interests a few weeks ago. I love romance in the games, but I really don't much care to spend my entire romance being someone's shrink or nanny. With this game, you could pretty much choose between those roles. Aveline and Varrick and Sebastian are the only ones who remotely resemble stable personalities. You can't romance two of them, and the idea of a chaste marriage leaves me.....bored.

As did babysitting Anders and Fenris.....

There is a great deal of empathy lacking from a lot of them.  The LIs in Orgins were not exactly normal, but their weren't complete fanatics either.

[Maladismal]

Paeyne wrote...

Maladismal wrote...

Without actually trying to adhere to the principles they teach, reclaming their lost heritage, the Dalish are a people with no future.

Pehaps they don't have much of a future.

The dead Dailish in my playthrough certainly don't, unless Hawke lies and takes responsiblity for Merrill's actions.

Merrill certainly has the right to die for her principles.   As my Hawke said, she doesn't have the right to choose who pays for her mistakes.  In this she is no different that Anders.  She took a course of action, she would not be disuaded from that course and innocent people paid the price.

How many more would have paid the price if the demon had succeeded in possessing Merrill.

I really don't understand how people can defend someone who is so uncomprehending of the consequenses of their actions.  Being "sweet" is not a defense.  Had I the option I would have handed her to the Dalish on a platter and walked away.

Except she doesn't endanger innocents. The Dalish choose to attack her. Their deaths are not innocent bystanders who happened to die in an explosion set off when merril cleansed the shard.  The only time Merril endangers anyone, she asks Hawke to be there incase she does fail and he'll have to kill her. At this point in the game you've killed countless abominations, matures dragons, legions of bandits, so one more Abomination seems like hardly a threat.

If you think she's a threat because she's a mage living free then I'll quote bethany "You have a sword, why aren't you killing anyone right now.". The logic applies, because Mages aren't all insane lunatics, just like all non mages aren't perfect examples of stability. Saying she's a blood mage doesn't seem to really matter either, Joawn from DA:O is a perfect example of how a Blood Mage can be in a dire situation and not resort to demon possession. So the only real example of when she can become a threat to others, she includes hawke in her plans as a ways to prevent it.

Thats not being uncomprehending of the conseuqneces of her actions. It's the exact opposite.

Merril has alot of flaws, just focus on the right ones.

[Sabriana]

Well, I only had mageHawke and romanced Fenris, so I don't know about the others. She had no real problems going the friendship romance way.

MageHawke needed quite a bit of time to get him there, but she did eventually. She was adamant in protecting her fellow mages, and Fenris didn't like that. However, you can call him out on his attitude. He even explains that he thinks mageHawke is a strong mage, and there is no reason to fear her. Something like "For every mage like you, there are a dozen more who can't handle their power. Those you should fear. Those we all should fear." He has a point, especially in Kirkwall.

In party banter he calls Bethane or mageHawke a 'strong' mage, and gives Anders a virtual butt-kick by saying he (Fenris) thinks that Anders is a weak mage.

However, all came to a screeching halt after a certain moment in act II. Hawke has to wait 3 years for him to come to his senses. 3 years! I played through, even though the romance had soured on me. What in blazes was that all about? What healthy woman (or man) in the prime of her life waits around meekly for 3 years until dude finally sees the light of day? Is she stupid or something? Apparently so.

I have another play-through, stalled at the beginning of Act III. Hawke is and will stay single. It's better that way. At least she won't get jerked around in several different directions at once.

Modifié par Sabriana, 07 mai 2011 - 03:17 .

[pallascedar]

Merill's naieve about lots of things: blood magic isn't really one of them: "Anders... There's no such thing as a good spirit. There never was. All spirits are dangerous. I understood that. I'm sorry that you didn't." She understands full well the risks she takes, and she considers them worth taking to complete her goal (Gaining back Dalish history)

[fightright2]

pallascedar wrote...

Merill's naieve about lots of things: blood magic isn't really one of them: "Anders... There's no such thing as a good spirit. There never was. All spirits are dangerous. I understood that. I'm sorry that you didn't." She understands full well the risks she takes, and she considers them worth taking to complete her goal (Gaining back Dalish history)

But she was naive where blood magic was concerned. That's why the keeper did what she did.
The trouble with Merrill was that she believed herself to be not only adequate enough to toy with it, but not get hurt by it. That's the irony in her statement.

[In Exile]

pallascedar wrote...

Merill's naieve about lots of things: blood magic isn't really one of them: "Anders... There's no such thing as a good spirit. There never was. All spirits are dangerous. I understood that. I'm sorry that you didn't." She understands full well the risks she takes, and she considers them worth taking to complete her goal (Gaining back Dalish history)

Actually, that line shows just how naive she is: she thinks she's got the upper hand. That's her pride. 

There are two arguments with Merril: that she was nuts and self-destructive, or that she had things under control and the keeper messed things up by getting involved.

Well, did Merril know the keeper? Let's say the demon played them both, with the end goal of posessing the Keeper; Merril was just the means. Is she still responsiible? I say, yes.

Why? Because she never stopped to consider that maybe she wasn't the target; that maybe what the demon wanted was something else, or that she wasn't getting the upper hand in her dealings. Merril was naive in the fact that she thought she could win, and win without giving up something important to her

[fightright2]

In Exile wrote...

pallascedar wrote...

Merill's naieve about lots of things: blood magic isn't really one of them: "Anders... There's no such thing as a good spirit. There never was. All spirits are dangerous. I understood that. I'm sorry that you didn't." She understands full well the risks she takes, and she considers them worth taking to complete her goal (Gaining back Dalish history)

Actually, that line shows just how naive she is: she thinks she's got the upper hand. That's her pride. 

There are two arguments with Merril: that she was nuts and self-destructive, or that she had things under control and the keeper messed things up by getting involved.

Well, did Merril know the keeper? Let's say the demon played them both, with the end goal of posessing the Keeper; Merril was just the means. Is she still responsiible? I say, yes.

Why? Because she never stopped to consider that maybe she wasn't the target; that maybe what the demon wanted was something else, or that she wasn't getting the upper hand in her dealings. Merril was naive in the fact that she thought she could win, and win without giving up something important to her

You nailed it! *thumbs up*

[Beerfish]

A couple of thoughts on the subject.

It is very very tough in a video game establish any kind of normal relationship as we think of them because you are not going to show all of the mundane things couples do. Also it is very tough to take into account the passage of time. DA2 is one of the few games that tries to move things along over the years, not an easy task.

As for the companions, these are all exceptional people. The best of the best at what they do and to go along with that often comes some of these character flaws.

The physical attractiveness side comes into it as well because no matter how we humans like to think that is secondary to a lot of other things it isn't.

I do agree with the point that BioWare goes a bit too far out of it's way at times to make everything a bit of a give and take conflict, including the romances. The other aspect of these romances is that these characters are in a life and death struggle on a weekly basis it seems. People get forced together or are not nearly as choosey about a partner when you could be kicking off at any time.

Also, the type of romance types that people talk about as being normal are also often looked at as being boring for some people.

Overall BioWare does a decent job as a whole with room for improvement. Also, no one is ever forcing anyone to have a romance. If the people available are not your cup of tea just turn them down ......and head to the Rose.

[Maladismal]

In Exile wrote...

pallascedar wrote...

Merill's naieve about lots of things: blood magic isn't really one of them: "Anders... There's no such thing as a good spirit. There never was. All spirits are dangerous. I understood that. I'm sorry that you didn't." She understands full well the risks she takes, and she considers them worth taking to complete her goal (Gaining back Dalish history)

Actually, that line shows just how naive she is: she thinks she's got the upper hand. That's her pride. 

There are two arguments with Merril: that she was nuts and self-destructive, or that she had things under control and the keeper messed things up by getting involved.

Well, did Merril know the keeper? Let's say the demon played them both, with the end goal of posessing the Keeper; Merril was just the means. Is she still responsiible? I say, yes.

Why? Because she never stopped to consider that maybe she wasn't the target; that maybe what the demon wanted was something else, or that she wasn't getting the upper hand in her dealings. Merril was naive in the fact that she thought she could win, and win without giving up something important to her

By that logic you could find a way to pin the blame on anything on anyone.

[Viyu]

Rifneno wrote...


Anders:  I always roll my eyes at people saying characters that have been through hell are whiners.  Gamers prefer a character that eats the souls of live puppies to someone that tells the waiter the mashed potatos are cold.  I just don't get it.

DA:A Anders was a fan favorite. Same could be said about Alistair and Zevran. These were the silly characters, and people actually tended to like them. Now, I'm not saying they hate the tough characters like Sten and Morrgian. But it's not the fact he's brooding that gives him the reputation of a dislikable whiner. But it's the fact he is hyper romanticized, like he came straight out of a Harlequin romance novel, with poor romantic buildup and behaves for the sake of being romantic, making him come off as needlessly melodramatic and...well... cheesey. 

1) He develops attachment and attraction to Hawke way too fast. Now compare this to Awakening's Anders. After all of the things you can do to gain his trust and save his life several times, and agreeing with his platforms about mages, he brushes off your Warden's advance without it going anywhere, nor does his flirting with your warden lead to anything. So why does he suddenly consider that you and Hawke could've "had something" a year ago when all you did was attempt to rescue Karl? From what we get from this Anders isn't the type of person to just sack anyone,despite his flirtatious persona on the outside or not in Awakening. But obviously there needs to be something Hawke's providing that the Warden didn't. Why are you so special to him all of a sudden, that he'd even think you'd have had something a year ago? You hardly even speak to him and he's already taking it seriously. That was the first red flag.

2) It felt like the developers were trying to MAKE Anders emo rather than have him naturally become emo, which is why he seems like such an obnoxious whiner to a lot of people. We know WHAT Anders did to become merged with Justice, but the developers did not explain what new experience could've been the catalyst that aroused Anders to change; He was previously a coward that felt that a rebellion would be too difficult to orchestrate, thought circle was useful, and did not approve of the libertarians trying to leave it in Awakening.

3) Why does his defense mechanism and sense of humor disappear almost entirely?  I think part of this has to do with the fact we can't even connect what triggered the change in Anders to want to merge with Justice in the first place. It's incredibly jarring to see Anders walk around exposed with all of his feelings showing without a REAL developed reason (and I just explained why "Justice" simply doesn't cut it). Anders is the type of character who avoids talking to others about personal matters by using humor. And sometimes, it's not even a defese mechanism, it was just who he is.

Speaking of which, Miko made a good point awhile back saying that if Anders is posessed by a vengence spirit, then you would think that he would try to force himself to be jovial and happy in order to keep it from manifesting. I compare it to how Raven in Teen Titans must control her emotions so that Trigon is not released, except the difference is that Raven could release Trigon by overdoing any emotion, whereas the only emotion Anders needs to be careful of is his anger (end of nerd spill).

It doesn't feel like we're romancing DA:A Anders who just so happens to believably  have a lot more on his shoulders this time around, it sounds like we have a totally different character with the similar experiences to the original Anders.

Modifié par Viyu, 07 mai 2011 - 07:45 .

[Paeyne]

I romanced Anders on my first playthrough. My Hawke helped him with the Chantry but that was because he used a line like "if you really love me you will do this and not ask any questions" to which my response was something like "fine, I will help you but I will never forget this emotional blackmail."

I ended up sparing him on that playthrough because I couldn't see myself executing the one I loved but I told him her was a murderer and at the keep I told him I would not be going anywhere with him and that we were over. (I would hand him over to Aveline if I could.)

On all my successive playthoughs I knifed him and walked away.

I don't mind Anders change of character and it was done well in several ways. If he was alone in his extremeness the character would be interesting in its showcasing of the extreme but most of the companions seem to be unhinged in some fanatical way.

Anders is fanatical about saving mages. Fenris is fanatical about containing mages. Merrill is fanatical about her mirror. Sebastian is fanatical about the Chantry. Isabella is fanatical about... well.. Isabella.

They all may have their good points but I would argue that fanaticism is not normal.

All these companions exemplify an extreme side of the overarching story. These are not interesting characters built to intrigue and empathize with. They are characterized versions of different aspects of the plot. If you do empathize with any of the companions, you probably empathize with that aspect of the plot.

Be nice if they had put in a companion that was fanatical about saving the innocent people of Kirkwall who die every day throughout the city because Kirkwall is a cesspool.

[Paeyne]

@Malidsmal

Let us pretend for a moment that Merrill is fanatical about cave paintings. She has a deep abiding love for the history of her people and these paintings are a long lost aspect of that. She knows that there are paintings in a deep and dangerous cave and she simply must see them. She is also told, repeatedly, that the cave is unstable and extremely dangerous and not to go there.

Her position is that she is an expert climber and she knows what she is doing. If she goes into the cave then only her life is at risk and the reward (in her mind) vastly outweighs the risk. So she goes to the cave, perhaps taking someone with her as insurance, and ignores the warnings she has been given, believing them to be exaggerated or inaccurate. Unfortunately a cave-in occurs.

A rescue mission is mounted. They could, of course, leave her to die. They don't have to rescue her, but most good and caring people don't think that way.

Merrill is rescued from the cave but three rescuers die in the process.

Merrill didn't want them dead. Merrill may not have even wanted to be rescued. It doesn't matter. She was warned of the danger and their death is a direct consequence of her actions.

No matter how laudable her goals may be, they do not justify even one Dalish life other than perhaps her own.

[Maladismal]

Paeyne wrote...

@Malidsmal

Let us pretend for a moment that Merrill is fanatical about cave paintings. She has a deep abiding love for the history of her people and these paintings are a long lost aspect of that. She knows that there are paintings in a deep and dangerous cave and she simply must see them. She is also told, repeatedly, that the cave is unstable and extremely dangerous and not to go there.

Her position is that she is an expert climber and she knows what she is doing. If she goes into the cave then only her life is at risk and the reward (in her mind) vastly outweighs the risk. So she goes to the cave, perhaps taking someone with her as insurance, and ignores the warnings she has been given, believing them to be exaggerated or inaccurate. Unfortunately a cave-in occurs.

A rescue mission is mounted. They could, of course, leave her to die. They don't have to rescue her, but most good and caring people don't think that way.

Merrill is rescued from the cave but three rescuers die in the process.

Merrill didn't want them dead. Merrill may not have even wanted to be rescued. It doesn't matter. She was warned of the danger and their death is a direct consequence of her actions.

No matter how laudable her goals may be, they do not justify even one Dalish life other than perhaps her own.

1.Because Cave Paintings have every chance of helping her culture become closer to reclaiming the golden age of their heritage

2.Every person who goes on a rescue mission is aware of the risks and are no more able to hold merril responsible for what happens in your scenario then merril is able to blame them for the cave in

3.There are sound reasons to not venture into a cave simply to sate personal desire as opposed to sacrificing everything she knew in an effort to abide by the teachings her teacher passed on to her in the first place.

your example is a joke, both to dissect and in it's irrelevance to the actual topic on hand.

Again, Merril has faults. Lots of them. Her persuit of the Eluvian for the betterment of her people isn't one of them. You're so caught up in your "everyone is unreasonably biased FOR merril" you're unable to recognize you're unreasonably biased AGAINST her.

The Dalish brought their deaths on themselves. If you want to try to blame anyone besides themselves, it's Marethari, but thats irresponsible. Everyone makes their own choices, even if it's to follow someone elses. Merril is not responsible for them.

[Laurelinde]

I have enjoyed most of the Bioware romances I've played through, but that doesn't mean I'd want to date or have a relationship with any of them as myself in our real world. The romance options in DA2 (and DA:O, in fairness) have a pretty weird and plentiful assortment of quirks and baggage, and would be unthinkable partner-prospects in the real world, but none of us is really like Hawke either, unless there are darkspawn and dragons and abominations in other parts of Earth I'm not aware of. I sure can't remember the last time I was set upon by a dozen magically appearing bandits, took down a ring of slavers, or had to save a mine from dragons. My point is, the romances aren't appropriate for a normal person's life on Earth, but they're more appropriate - or at the very least, less inappropriate - for a Hero in a Magical World.

Secondly, I am struggling to think of a Bioware romance that hasn't had quite a lot of baggage. I haven't played all the games or all the romances, but the ones that are springing to mind contain more than their fair share of dead exes, personality disorders, dubious bloodline, moral, philsophical and species differences, and impossible circumstances and acts of god(s). The most 'ordinary' one that leaps to mind is Sky from Jade Empire, and even he was kinda hung up on his lost wife and child from what I remember.  I don't know that the romances in DA2 were particularly worse in this regard than their predecessors.

Modifié par Laurelinde, 07 mai 2011 - 11:24 .

[Maladismal]

Laurelinde wrote...

I have enjoyed most of the Bioware romances I've played through, but that doesn't mean I'd want to date or have a relationship with any of them as myself in our real world. The romance options in DA2 (and DA:O, in fairness) have a pretty weird and plentiful assortment of quirks and baggage, and would be unthinkable partner-prospects in the real world, but none of us is really like Hawke either, unless there are darkspawn and dragons and abominations in other parts of Earth I'm not aware of. I sure can't remember the last time I was set upon by a dozen magically appearing bandits, took down a ring of slavers, or had to save a mine from dragons. My point is, the romances aren't appropriate for a normal person's life on Earth, but they're more appropriate - or at the very least, less inappropriate - for a Hero in a Magical World.

Secondly, I am struggling to think of a Bioware romance that hasn't had quite a lot of baggage. I haven't played all the games or all the romances, but the ones that are springing to mind contain more than their fair share of dead exes, personality disorders, dubious bloodline, moral, philsophical and species differences, and impossible circumstances and acts of god(s). The most 'ordinary' one that leaps to mind is Sky from Jade Empire, and even he was kinda hung up on his lost wife and child from what I remember.  I don't know that the romances in DA2 were particularly worse in this regard than their predecessors.

Sky had less baggage then Dawn Star? Dawn Star seemed pretty stable, even after Sun Li was revealed to her as her father.

[HogarthHughes 3]

Maretharis word on the Eluvian was as good as Merrills. Letting Merrill complete the mirror is not the same thing as leaving her to die in a cave. Certainly, Merrill was overly invested in the mirror, and of its supposed worth to her people (how was she supposed to "save them" with it? she says something exactly like that), but there is no real evidence as to what would have happened if Merrill would have completed the mirror. What if the demon had come through, and was then killed? Or maybe the Eluvian was never a way for it to leave its prison, and those were lies that the demon had tricked Marethari into believing. There is no way for us to tell now, unless the writers should come up with something, but even if they do there was no way for Hawke to know.

[JosieJ]

frustratemyself wrote...

What about the mugging that happens right outside her door. True we don't know if it happens at day or night but she's positively giddy when she tells you about it. Not quite right.

The sad part is, in DA:O, she wasn't that naive.  Sure, she didn't have a lot of experience with humans or with the outside world, but she was very forthright and not stammery with Duncan even though he was the first human she ever met.  (The devs seem to have mixed this up in DA2 since at one point she says she's never met a human before Hawke, but then later she talks about how fascinating she found Duncan's beard.)

We know from the fact that she already had her vallaslin in DA:O that she was an adult then; she seems to have seriously regressed since then.

I won't lie: I find her character cute, and I love the VA, but it doesn't inspire romantic feelings, more like "Oooh, what a cute puppy!" feelings.

[Paeyne]

Maladismal wrote...


your example is a joke, both to dissect and in it's irrelevance to the actual topic on hand.

No-where in my post did I resort to such a arrogant and condescending
attitude as this.  If you want to take my disagreement as a personal
affront to your position you are welcome to.  
 
I did not say that
Merrill is responsible for their deaths.  I said that their deaths were
a direct consequence of her actions. 
  
Those consequences were both foreseeable and preventable.

Your right though.  My original thread is about relationships so I will only say that I would never have a relationship with someone I feel is completely negligent concerning the potential consequences to her actions.

We will just have to agree to disagree.

[Paeyne]

Laurelinde wrote...

Secondly, I am struggling to think of a Bioware romance that hasn't had quite a lot of baggage. I haven't played all the games or all the romances, but the ones that are springing to mind contain more than their fair share of dead exes, personality disorders, dubious bloodline, moral, philsophical and species differences, and impossible circumstances and acts of god(s). The most 'ordinary' one that leaps to mind is Sky from Jade Empire, and even he was kinda hung up on his lost wife and child from what I remember.  I don't know that the romances in DA2 were particularly worse in this regard than their predecessors.

I have only played Origns other than DA2.

Morrigan was very much the "I am the top of the food chain" sort of personality.  Not really normal.  no.

Alistair was pretty normal, I would say.  I never romanced him but he is probably the most popular of any DA companion.

Zevran is not normal at all but he is at least empathetic and marginally charming.

Lelliana was pretty normal.  She believes her dreams come from the maker, maybe they do.  There are plenty of people that have fairly fervant faith in a divine being.  She also recognizes that her dreams are unusual.

[TiaraBlade]

Admittedly the love interests in DA2 had... issues, especially compared to DA:O who were more mentally balanced IMHO. Well maybe not Isabella since she's got her head on straight. Her pants, not so much.



I do think that Bioware missed the boat with the love interests in terms of building a strong relationship and looking at how that relationship would change over the years. In most Bioware games, those relationships mature over a few weeks or months. What happened when the newness wears away, though? As weeks become months becomes years, people change and relationships do as well.

For example, and the timeline gets screwy since Bioware says it's a 10 year time period but it's really 7:

Get to kirkwall and spend a year doing odds jobs to pay off deby: 1 year.
Between end of chapter 1 to chapter 2: 3 years
Between end of chapter 2 to chapter 3: 3 years

Your love interest I think doesn't declare until chapter 2. I also think that's when they can move in. Wow, three years to go from friend to love interest (except for Isabella, I suspect she and Hawke were knocking boots the night they met and the love scene is just the chance to take it to the next level).

Anyway, a three year relationship where things can happen, people change, etc...

With Hawke being the champion as well as a wealthy person reclaiming a noble title, he or she needs to start thinking:  I'm not getting younger: should I get married? Have children or designate an heir? What if you are in a relationship with a character of the same gender: do you go outside the relationship for a child of your own blood?

Interesting ideas that a normal Bioware game could not explore but this could have. It would have also been interesting to see if your love could change someone: turn Anders from his obession or Merril from her blood magic and dealing with demons. Maybe make Isabella an honest woman... ok maybe not that.

[TiaraBlade]

As a Merrill fan who romanced her.... Merrill was pretty naive to say the least. The keeper and the others tried their best to dissaude them but she would not listen. Yes, her intentions were good but she thought she could outwit a demon and we saw how that turned out.

We've seen it in both games: bargains with demons seldom go as well as the bargainer thinks they will and everyone thinks they know better than the last guy who became an abomination.

[TiaraBlade]

Maladismal wrote...

Paeyne wrote...

Maladismal wrote...

Without actually trying to adhere to the principles they teach, reclaming their lost heritage, the Dalish are a people with no future.

Pehaps they don't have much of a future.

The dead Dailish in my playthrough certainly don't, unless Hawke lies and takes responsiblity for Merrill's actions.

Merrill certainly has the right to die for her principles.   As my Hawke said, she doesn't have the right to choose who pays for her mistakes.  In this she is no different that Anders.  She took a course of action, she would not be disuaded from that course and innocent people paid the price.

How many more would have paid the price if the demon had succeeded in possessing Merrill.

I really don't understand how people can defend someone who is so uncomprehending of the consequenses of their actions.  Being "sweet" is not a defense.  Had I the option I would have handed her to the Dalish on a platter and walked away.

Except she doesn't endanger innocents. The Dalish choose to attack her. Their deaths are not innocent bystanders who happened to die in an explosion set off when merril cleansed the shard.  The only time Merril endangers anyone, she asks Hawke to be there incase she does fail and he'll have to kill her. At this point in the game you've killed countless abominations, matures dragons, legions of bandits, so one more Abomination seems like hardly a threat.

If you think she's a threat because she's a mage living free then I'll quote bethany "You have a sword, why aren't you killing anyone right now.". The logic applies, because Mages aren't all insane lunatics, just like all non mages aren't perfect examples of stability. Saying she's a blood mage doesn't seem to really matter either, Joawn from DA:O is a perfect example of how a Blood Mage can be in a dire situation and not resort to demon possession. So the only real example of when she can become a threat to others, she includes hawke in her plans as a ways to prevent it.

Thats not being uncomprehending of the conseuqneces of her actions. It's the exact opposite.

Merril has alot of flaws, just focus on the right ones.

Swords don't make bargains with people, corrupt and tempt them, before finally turning them into abominations.

If we were saying that all mages were nuts, then the Bethany quote (which was the context it was used in) makes sense.

Merrill was bargaining with demons and it that it led to only one death was a lucky thing (it could have led to more if the game designers didn't short circuit out choices). We have seen time and time and time again in Dragon Age where blood magic and dealing with demons kills people (like RedCliffe, the Circle in the first game, and all sorts of stuff in DA2).

Like I said: Dragon Age is full of people like Merrill (just not as adorable) who think they can outsmart demons only to find themselves abominations.

[hoorayforicecream]

I think the thing about Merrill that bothered me most was how little she cared about what people who cared about her thought. I don't know whether she was justified in what she did or thought, because the game never definitively gives us a clear answer. However, I do know that I tend to value the opinions of people close to me, but Merrill doesn't. She wouldn't listen to Hawke, or Isabela, or Varric, or Marethari. She might have been right about the eluvian, but it bothers me that she'd place the potential of the eluvian above her life, the lives of her clan, and the lives of her friends who are expressing very real concern for her well-being.