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[Maladismal]

TiaraBlade wrote...


Swords don't make bargains with people, corrupt and tempt them, before finally turning them into abominations.

If we were saying that all mages were nuts, then the Bethany quote (which was the context it was used in) makes sense.

Merrill was bargaining with demons and it that it led to only one death was a lucky thing (it could have led to more if the game designers didn't short circuit out choices). We have seen time and time and time again in Dragon Age where blood magic and dealing with demons kills people (like RedCliffe, the Circle in the first game, and all sorts of stuff in DA2).

Like I said: Dragon Age is full of people like Merrill (just not as adorable) who think they can outsmart demons only to find themselves abominations.

Irrelevant. People with swords can make bargains with other people with swords, twist their words and force them into uncompromisig scenario's. People act as if Demons are the only beings in Thedas capable of deception. I strongly remember a certain Sister/Mother Petrice manipulating people in such a way that causes grevious harm to everyone around her. No magic or abiminations needed.

Blood Magic is just magic. It's the choices PEOPLE make. Being a mage has nothing to do with it. The arishock for all his hatred of magic killed more people then Anders did with his magic bomb. Loghain slaughtered his son in law/surrogate nephew/ King as well as a untold number of soldiers, again no magic necessary.

I also can count very few people in DA2 who actually thought they were getting the upper hand in a deal with a demon. Most did it out of desperation or willingly made it knowing the consequences full well.

Modifié par Maladismal, 08 mai 2011 - 12:16 .

[TOBY FLENDERSON]

My own personal wishes for male were Athenril (the smuggler), Averline, Sigrund (brought back in Stroud's place). For female Donnic, Varric, Shamus. All would be exclusive to straight romances because exclusivity across playthroughs is great and making everyone bi is lazy. This would have left everyone at least partially satisfied due to all races and orientation being presented in addition to LI's already in. But my biggest gripe is that none of the LI's had a reason, except Isabella, for being bi, unlike Zevran and Leliana who both have a history justifying it.

Personally I like Merrill because she repents her blood magic in the end and seems beleivable.

[In Exile]

Maladismal wrote...
By that logic you could find a way to pin the blame on anything on anyone.

The reality is that everyone is to blame for everything in the causal sense. More practically, you have to look at the catalylist for everything.

Merril was the catalyst for the downfall of the dalish clan. Irrespective of whatever everyone else did, had Merril never actually pursued the Eluvian, the demon would have remained trapped in Sundermount and that would have been it.

[In Exile]

Maladismal wrote...
Again, Merril has faults. Lots of them. Her persuit of the Eluvian for the betterment of her people isn't one of them. You're so caught up in your "everyone is unreasonably biased FOR merril" you're unable to recognize you're unreasonably biased AGAINST her.

The Dalish brought their deaths on themselves. If you want to try to blame anyone besides themselves, it's Marethari, but thats irresponsible. Everyone makes their own choices, even if it's to follow someone elses. Merril is not responsible for them.

Dealing with demons is not that simple. The cave-in example is not good because it doesn't capture the casual role of the demon.

She believed that all the demon would do is try to posses or otherwise manipulate her. She believed she was in control because she had isolated herself from her clan and the demon was itself isolated in Sundermount. She was narrowly focused on her behaviour when dealing with another conscious being whose existence is predicated on exploitation, and thought herself the target.

I don't think Marethari is innocent, and she absolutely broke her duty to her clan given her single-minded obsession with Merril. But Marethari's faults don't excuse Merril, just like Merril's faults don't excuse Marethari.

She was naive because she thought she was the only target, and she was the only one at risk. She's responsible because she was negligent, and she was neglicent because she thought that the only danger from the demon was to herself.

[Xilizhra]

But my biggest gripe is that none of the LI's had a reason, except Isabella, for being bi, unlike Zevran and Leliana who both have a history justifying it.

It's just sexual orientation; you don't need a "history."

[In Exile]

Xilizhra wrote..
It's just sexual orientation; you don't need a "history."

But people will feel they need an explanation, because they will see the character (potentially) with different builds, in different perspectives.

Fenris, Merril and Anders don't come off as bisexual (like Zevran and Leliana); they seemed to be Hawkesexual in that they did not give any indication of their attraction to both genders aside from their attraction to Hawke.

[Xilizhra]

Leliana is more ordinary than the others, and Zevran is extremely libidinous. Merrill and Anders have other issues that they spend almost all their time focused on, leaving them no time for romance unless Hawke pursues it. Fenris has something of that, and he's also just an unwelcoming person in general.

[In Exile]

Xilizhra wrote...

Leliana is more ordinary than the others, and Zevran is extremely libidinous. Merrill and Anders have other issues that they spend almost all their time focused on, leaving them no time for romance unless Hawke pursues it. Fenris has something of that, and he's also just an unwelcoming person in general.

It's not that there aren't in character reasons for them not to mention their sexuality. It's just that the players need more to not feel as if the characters were just carved out for the sake of all romances, if you see the content multiple times.

[Xilizhra]

I disagree, but if you wish to hold that position, very well.

[Maladismal]

In Exile wrote...

Maladismal wrote...
Again, Merril has faults. Lots of them. Her persuit of the Eluvian for the betterment of her people isn't one of them. You're so caught up in your "everyone is unreasonably biased FOR merril" you're unable to recognize you're unreasonably biased AGAINST her.

The Dalish brought their deaths on themselves. If you want to try to blame anyone besides themselves, it's Marethari, but thats irresponsible. Everyone makes their own choices, even if it's to follow someone elses. Merril is not responsible for them.

Dealing with demons is not that simple. The cave-in example is not good because it doesn't capture the casual role of the demon.

She believed that all the demon would do is try to posses or otherwise manipulate her. She believed she was in control because she had isolated herself from her clan and the demon was itself isolated in Sundermount. She was narrowly focused on her behaviour when dealing with another conscious being whose existence is predicated on exploitation, and thought herself the target.

I don't think Marethari is innocent, and she absolutely broke her duty to her clan given her single-minded obsession with Merril. But Marethari's faults don't excuse Merril, just like Merril's faults don't excuse Marethari.

She was naive because she thought she was the only target, and she was the only one at risk. She's responsible because she was negligent, and she was neglicent because she thought that the only danger from the demon was to herself.

Marethari is the catalyst.
Marethari refused to assist merril in the eluvian.
Marethari spread propaganda demonizing Merril
Marethari gave the demon it's desire.
Marethari refused to take the Dalish to new grounds.

Despite all this. The dalish made their choice to fight. Pol made his choice to run. 

Sarcastic hawke has a similar attitude with the "I'll have to remember that, Demons made me do it" line. People do their own damning and finding a way to blame someone else is irresponsible.

[In Exile]

Maladismal wrote...
Marethari is the catalyst.
Marethari refused to assist merril in the eluvian.

You mentioned reflexivity. We can just as easily say Merril stubbornly insisted on fixing the Eluvian, even if it involved blood magic.

We can look at it this way: the car sales man refused to give away the car for free or the criminal chose to steal the car.

Each is a casual factor, but if we want to speak of a catalyst for a situation we have to look at the reasonableness and justification of the behaviour in itself.

It is Marethari's right as Keeper to decide what is worth and not worth preserving for the sake of the future of the Dalish. It isn't Merril's right to turn to blood magic when she's refused.

Merril was in the wrong.

Despite all this. The dalish made their choice to fight. Pol made his choice to run. 

Sarcastic hawke has a similar attitude with the "I'll have to remember that, Demons made me do it" line. People do their own damning and finding a way to blame someone else is irresponsible.

But you're arguing that Marethari is at fault for what Merril did.

Modifié par In Exile, 08 mai 2011 - 06:15 .

[Maladismal]

In Exile wrote...

Maladismal wrote...
Marethari is the catalyst.
Marethari refused to assist merril in the eluvian.

You mentioned reflexivity. We can just as easily say Merril stubbornly insisted on fixing the Eluvian, even if it involved blood magic.

We can look at it this way: the car sales man refused to give away the car for free or the criminal chose to steal the car.

Each is a casual factor, but if we want to speak of a catalyst for a situation we have to look at the reasonableness and justification of the behaviour in itself.

It is Marethari's right as Keeper to decide what is worth and not worth preserving for the sake of the future of the Dalish. It isn't Merril's right to turn to blood magic when she's refused.

Merril was in the wrong.

Despite all this. The dalish made their choice to fight. Pol made his choice to run. 

Sarcastic hawke has a similar attitude with the "I'll have to remember that, Demons made me do it" line. People do their own damning and finding a way to blame someone else is irresponsible.

But you're arguing that Marethari is at fault for what Merril did.

No. I'm arguing that people make their choices, but if you were dead set on a scapegoat Marethari is to blame. She shouldn't of taught Merril that keepers preserve all Elvish lore if she didn't intend Merril to take that lesson to heart.

I also don't see blood magic as BAD. It's just magic. My mage hawke and warden were both blood mages who dealt with demons and one of them stoped a blight and the other was a nice guy who helped every yokel who requested it.

Modifié par Maladismal, 08 mai 2011 - 07:16 .

[Viyu]

Xilizhra wrote...

But my biggest gripe is that none of the LI's had a reason, except Isabella, for being bi, unlike Zevran and Leliana who both have a history justifying it.

It's just sexual orientation; you don't need a "history."

I agree, but I felt they were "hiding" Anders' bisexuality, and I am not okay with that. I felt like he was straight and turned bi, given the gender specific flirting with your female warden that he does in Awakening. Which is fine, except they didn't give it any development because they didn't want to touch on Karl, despite the fact all of the other characters had people who were important to them that they remembered throughout the story. Merill was Pol and her clan, Fenris was Denerius, Varric with his brother, Bethany with Carver, etc. etc. you get the idea.  Virtually everyone except Anders, which was awfully suspicious. It felt like they didn't want to offend straight people so they didn't develop Anders' bisexuality, nor did they allow his bisexuality to be a part of who he is, when it reasonably should have. He just up and forgets about Karl after Tranquility without a second thought--and HE was the one who was forced to kill him. This hardly seems like beilevable characterization.

Modifié par Viyu, 08 mai 2011 - 07:19 .

[Xilizhra]

It felt like they didn't want to offend straight people so they didn't develop Anders' bisexuality, nor did they allow his bisexuality to be a part of who he is, when it reasonably should have.

Considering the incredible amount of whining over Anders' bisexuality existing at all...

[Viyu]

Xilizhra wrote...

It felt like they didn't want to offend straight people so they didn't develop Anders' bisexuality, nor did they allow his bisexuality to be a part of who he is, when it reasonably should have.

Considering the incredible amount of whining over Anders' bisexuality existing at all...

I think that's because it got no development, not because people were pissed about him being bi in and of itself. This caught people offguard and reasonably so. This is Dragon Age, if people were pissed about bisexuality, they'd have quit the franchise after the first game.

[TiaraBlade]

Maladismal wrote...

TiaraBlade wrote...


Swords don't make bargains with people, corrupt and tempt them, before finally turning them into abominations.

If we were saying that all mages were nuts, then the Bethany quote (which was the context it was used in) makes sense.

Merrill was bargaining with demons and it that it led to only one death was a lucky thing (it could have led to more if the game designers didn't short circuit out choices). We have seen time and time and time again in Dragon Age where blood magic and dealing with demons kills people (like RedCliffe, the Circle in the first game, and all sorts of stuff in DA2).

Like I said: Dragon Age is full of people like Merrill (just not as adorable) who think they can outsmart demons only to find themselves abominations.

Irrelevant. People with swords can make bargains with other people with swords, twist their words and force them into uncompromisig scenario's. People act as if Demons are the only beings in Thedas capable of deception. I strongly remember a certain Sister/Mother Petrice manipulating people in such a way that causes grevious harm to everyone around her. No magic or abiminations needed.

Blood Magic is just magic. It's the choices PEOPLE make. Being a mage has nothing to do with it. The arishock for all his hatred of magic killed more people then Anders did with his magic bomb. Loghain slaughtered his son in law/surrogate nephew/ King as well as a untold number of soldiers, again no magic necessary.

I also can count very few people in DA2 who actually thought they were getting the upper hand in a deal with a demon. Most did it out of desperation or willingly made it knowing the consequences full well.

Actually your ideas are irrelevant and indeed ignores the context in which Bethany said them: defending magic as a whole rather than blood magic. She doesn't think that mages needs to be controlled anymore than people with swords be controlled. I certainly do not recall her ever defending blood magic.

You backtrack trying to salvage your arguement: first it's equating demons with swords and then people armed with swords with demons. It's nonsense. People coming to an agreement with people may result in some twisting of words, etc... but demons do nothing BUT twist and make false promises so that they can trap mortals in their own words and agreements so they can be corrupted.

Seriously, two people making an agreement are the same as a demon and person consorting when we have seen time and time and time again that it goes badly for the person, that the person winds up losing their soul, sanity, and become an abomination?

WOW!

Blood Magic is just magic. It's the choices PEOPLE make. Being a mage has nothing to do with it. The arishock for all his hatred of magic killed more people then Anders did with his magic bomb. Loghain slaughtered his son in law/surrogate nephew/ King as well as a untold number of soldiers, again no magic necessary.

You lack any sort of point. We have not stated that all magic is bad but blood magic has pretty much always led to bad ends in the game. Whether it's because people learn them from demons and thus is corrupted, or blood magic has a corrupting power, or that people who want to learn blood magic are already corrupted since they learn it knowing they will likely kill other people all lead to blood magic is very bad. Maybe 1% of the time it works out well, so what? By contrast, general magic in general seems to work out fine.

Modifié par TiaraBlade, 08 mai 2011 - 08:03 .

[Paeyne]

Viyu wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It felt like they didn't want to offend straight people so they didn't develop Anders' bisexuality, nor did they allow his bisexuality to be a part of who he is, when it reasonably should have.

Considering the incredible amount of whining over Anders' bisexuality existing at all...

I think that's because it got no development, not because people were pissed about him being bi in and of itself. This caught people offguard and reasonably so. This is Dragon Age, if people were pissed about bisexuality, they'd have quit the franchise after the first game.

I think part of the issue is that people seem to believe that someone's sexuality defines them when I think it is only a part of their overall personality.  Individuals are far more complex than who they choose to sleep with.

You could put it down to the situation he grew up in.  There is some indication that he was abused growing up in the circle.  Very often someone with little joy in their life are reticent to turn down an offer of caring and genuine affection when it is offered.

The belief he offers that 'you fall in love with a whole person', not just their gender, certainly resonated with me, regardless of what his or my overall preference may be.  I don't even mind him indicating his interest in Hawke (no matter the gender) but it felt a bit contrived as it came very soon in their relationship.  There is some initial opportunities to express interest in him before he talks to you about his interest in you.  If you ignored those opportunities I would think he would have held off until he could get to know you better or he just couldn't be silent any longer.

As far as the other companions.  I think bisexuality works for Isabella.  It might even have worked for Sebastion (it would be an interesting turn of events if he realized he was chaste because he had little interest in woman.)  Bisexuality wasn't very believable in Merrill to me.  Fenris is a rather weird situation.  I can see him sleeping with either gender because of his background but whether he has a genuine interest in men is hard to say.  Its a little hard to say if he has a genuine interest in women either.

Overall, the lot of them did suffer from a lack of development.  In the case of Anders, the dramatic change from Awakening was tough for a lot of Anders fans to swallow.  I can say that my impression of Anders in Awakening was that he was bi at the very least but that is a completely subjective opinion.  (I don't know a lot of men that carry cats around with them named Ser Pounce-a-lot.  I readily admit that my impression is based in a certain degree of gender bias but, in my defense, thats a bias that no-one can be rid of entirely.)

[Xilizhra]

Bisexuality wasn't very believable in Merrill to me.

Why?

[Maladismal]

TiaraBlade wrote...


Actually your ideas are irrelevant and indeed ignores the context in which Bethany said them: defending magic as a whole rather than blood magic. She doesn't think that mages needs to be controlled anymore than people with swords be controlled. I certainly do not recall her ever defending blood magic.

You backtrack trying to salvage your arguement: first it's equating demons with swords and then people armed with swords with demons. It's nonsense. People coming to an agreement with people may result in some twisting of words, etc... but demons do nothing BUT twist and make false promises so that they can trap mortals in their own words and agreements so they can be corrupted.

Seriously, two people making an agreement are the same as a demon and person consorting when we have seen time and time and time again that it goes badly for the person, that the person winds up losing their soul, sanity, and become an abomination?

WOW!

Blood Magic is just magic. It's the choices PEOPLE make. Being a mage has nothing to do with it. The arishock for all his hatred of magic killed more people then Anders did with his magic bomb. Loghain slaughtered his son in law/surrogate nephew/ King as well as a untold number of soldiers, again no magic necessary.

You lack any sort of point. We have not stated that all magic is bad but blood magic has pretty much always led to bad ends in the game. Whether it's because people learn them from demons and thus is corrupted, or blood magic has a corrupting power, or that people who want to learn blood magic are already corrupted since they learn it knowing they will likely kill other people all lead to blood magic is very bad. Maybe 1% of the time it works out well, so what? By contrast, general magic in general seems to work out fine.

How is my pointing out that magic isn't necessary for things to go completely fubar lacking a point about how blood magic isn't something terrible to be abhorred?

Blood Magic is just magic. Conner at Red Cliffe certainly didn't need it to bargain with a demon which decimated that populace. 

And it's not nonsense, all blood magic in the game doesn't do any such thing. Mage Hawke has no problem being a safe blood mage, nor again did Mage Warden. Hell Mage warden dealt with demons so often as to make the prospect of being cautious when dealing with such beings comical.

[In Exile]

Maladismal wrote...
No. I'm arguing that people make their choices, but if you were dead set on a scapegoat Marethari is to blame. She shouldn't of taught Merril that keepers preserve all Elvish lore if she didn't intend Merril to take that lesson to heart.

But she obviously didn't teach her that; she gave her a very clear counter-example: the Eluvian. It was tained, and too dangerous as  result to be restored. It was Merril who disagreed witht he keeper, and it was Merril who believed everything about the past needed to be known.

Regarding individual choice - that's irrelevant. No one is saying that Merril forced anyone into anything; but that has nothign do with the degree to which her actions were destructive, and the extent of the responsibility she bears for bringing the tragedy of the Dalish about.

I also don't see blood magic as BAD. It's just magic. My mage hawke and warden were both blood mages who dealt with demons and one of them stoped a blight and the other was a nice guy who helped every yokel who requested it.

No, it isn't. Blood magic requires a living sacrifice: yourself, or others. That adds a powerful moral dimension other magic doesn't have. I agree that isn't in itself bad... but like a weapon, it is something that can easily be abused and easily have negative consequences. Beyond that, Merril didn't just use blood magic. She traded with a demon for it, and the demon is the issue.

If you're going to go down the route of ''blood magic isn't a wrong'' then that ignores the perception of it.

Merril violated the rules of her clan to use blood magic. Marethari forbade it. Yet she pushed on. It goes right back to the difference between a car dealer not letting a person have a car for free and that person stealing that car.

It is the act of stealing, which is to say taking private property without an equivalent exchange of value, that's a violation of a moral norm (like Merril's use of bloodmagic, in her society) that made her responsible for what followed, because it was her behaviour that was deviant and that others had tor respond to.

ETA:

And appealing to plot-armour Hawke or Warden is a very, very bad way of approaching the issue.

Modifié par In Exile, 08 mai 2011 - 08:47 .

[Paeyne]

Xilizhra wrote...

Bisexuality wasn't very believable in Merrill to me.

Why?

It just didn't seem very convincing based on the character development I saw.

And.. no.. I do not intend to be drawn into another argument about Merrill.

That is my opinion.  Your opinion may differ.

Modifié par Paeyne, 08 mai 2011 - 08:47 .

[Laurelinde]

Maladismal wrote...

Sky had less baggage then Dawn Star? Dawn Star seemed pretty stable, even after Sun Li was revealed to her as her father.

Ah you may be right, I only ever played through JE once as Wu so I didn't have Dawn Star as a romance option.  But yes, she was fairly "normal" as far as game romances go, from what I can remember.  I can't speak for all the BG/NWN options either as I haven't played them all. 

Paeyne wrote...

I have only played Origns other than DA2.

Morrigan was very much the "I am the top of the food chain" sort of personality.  Not really normal.  no.

Alistair was pretty normal, I would say.  I never romanced him but he is probably the most popular of any DA companion.

Zevran is not normal at all but he is at least empathetic and marginally charming.

Lelliana
was pretty normal.  She believes her dreams come from the maker, maybe
they do.  There are plenty of people that have fairly fervant faith in a
divine being.  She also recognizes that her dreams are unusual.

I'm not saying the DA:O romance options didn't have their charms - they did, obviously (see sig for details).   But by the same token, how many people, even fans of the characters, would date someone in real life who claimed to be receiving messages from god in their dreams, and told you they wanted to save your eyelashes in a jar?  How many would date someone who killed people for a living and had no compunction about it - not as a soldier, but just as a hired gun?  (Not to mention someone who would quite cheerfully sleep around on you and be very reluctant to ever commit.)  How many people would date a 20- or 30-something virgin who was (potentially) semi-forced into becoming, say, Prime Minster of Norway, with all the press attention and time-consumign work that would entail?  Some people might, sure, but a lot of people would have to really stop and think before they entered into a relationship with any of them.  And I say this as someone who loved DA:O and has a massive, massive soft spot for Alistair as a character.

So now turn that around, and for what they are, the romances in DA2 will also have fans, even if (like me) players would not touch the characters with a 20-foot pole in real life.  Hell, if anyone tried to chat me up with 'I would drown us in blood to keep you safe' I would be running and screaming faster and louder to the police station than a woman of my age ought to run.  The flaws make them more interesting and even real as characters, but it can make them pretty undateable in our world.

Game/fantasy romances don't have to be realistic or real-world appropriate to still be ok and fun for games.  Just my two coppers.

Modifié par Laurelinde, 08 mai 2011 - 09:31 .

[Maladismal]

But she obviously didn't teach her that; she gave her a very clear counter-example: the Eluvian. It was tained, and too dangerous as  result to be restored. It was Merril who disagreed witht he keeper, and it was Merril who believed everything about the past needed to be known.

Regarding individual choice - that's irrelevant. No one is saying that Merril forced anyone into anything; but that has nothign do with the degree to which her actions were destructive, and the extent of the responsibility she bears for bringing the tragedy of the Dalish about.

[quote]I also don't see blood magic as BAD. It's just magic. My mage hawke and warden were both blood mages who dealt with demons and one of them stoped a blight and the other was a nice guy who helped every yokel who requested it.[/quote]

No, it isn't. Blood magic requires a living sacrifice: yourself, or others. That adds a powerful moral dimension other magic doesn't have. I agree that isn't in itself bad... but like a weapon, it is something that can easily be abused and easily have negative consequences. Beyond that, Merril didn't just use blood magic. She traded with a demon for it, and the demon is the issue.

If you're going to go down the route of ''blood magic isn't a wrong'' then that ignores the perception of it.

Merril violated the rules of her clan to use blood magic. Marethari forbade it. Yet she pushed on. It goes right back to the difference between a car dealer not letting a person have a car for free and that person stealing that car.

It is the act of stealing, which is to say taking private property without an equivalent exchange of value, that's a violation of a moral norm (like Merril's use of bloodmagic, in her society) that made her responsible for what followed, because it was her behaviour that was deviant and that others had tor respond to.

ETA:

And appealing to plot-armour Hawke or Warden is a very, very bad way of approaching the issue.

[/quote]

I wouldn't of used warden/hawke plot armor if plot armor didn't surround every facet of the game. It has to matter because the game only gives us so much choice in what we have avaliable. It's a cheap shot, but it's still valid.

I also present this to counter Merril's deviant behavior. Marethari's not persuing the Eluvian was of dereliction of her duty as keeper forcing Merril's hand.

"A Keeper is a leader of Dalish
elves, both in the spiritual sense, as well as the literal. They are
not thought of as rulers, however. The families within a clan listen to
their Keeper because the Keeper is wise, and it is tradition. Keepers
are also responsible for knowing the clan's ancient lore, and passing it
on to the others in the clan. Without a keeper, the clan's knowledge is
lost forever. Every ten years, the Keepers of the Dalish clans convene
in a meeting called the Arlathvhen, which lasts usually two days,
to compare any recovered knowledge or artifacts. The intense quarreling
that occurs in these conferences leads many to suspect the Dalish
prefer their tribal isolation due to irreconcilable differences.
"

[Paeyne]

Hehe...Laurelinde you are quite right.

Yeah. When I try to talk about normal for romances in the DA series its a question of comparative normal rather than realistic normal. Most of the companions have backgrounds that would hospitalize them at the very least in our would.

That said... I know several players that would romance Alistair in a heartbeat if they had the opportunity in the real world.

[In Exile]

Maladismal wrote...
I wouldn't of used warden/hawke plot armor if plot armor didn't surround every facet of the game. It has to matter because the game only gives us so much choice in what we have avaliable. It's a cheap shot, but it's still valid.

The issue is gameplay & lore segregation.

I also present this to counter Merril's deviant behavior. Marethari's not persuing the Eluvian was of dereliction of her duty as keeper forcing Merril's hand.

"A Keeper is a leader of Dalish
elves, both in the spiritual sense, as well as the literal. They are
not thought of as rulers, however. The families within a clan listen to
their Keeper because the Keeper is wise, and it is tradition. Keepers
are also responsible for knowing the clan's ancient lore, and passing it
on to the others in the clan. Without a keeper, the clan's knowledge is
lost forever. Every ten years, the Keepers of the Dalish clans convene
in a meeting called the Arlathvhen, which lasts usually two days,
to compare any recovered knowledge or artifacts. The intense quarreling
that occurs in these conferences leads many to suspect the Dalish
prefer their tribal isolation due to irreconcilable differences.
"

The Keeper is responsible for the knowledge of the clan according to that; not the lost knowledge of Arlathan.

Your quote doesn't defend Merril.