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The ending makes the game a slap in the face!


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#26
Ulicus

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Plaintiff wrote...

I don't think having a history with Bioware makes your opinion more valid, mentioning it just makes you sound arrogant and set in your ways. I haven't played Baldur's Gate or any Bioware games prior to Origins and frankly I'm glad I haven't because there seems to be a some sort of correlation between being a long-time Bioware fan and being a condescending jackass.

Hey! :(

I've been here since BG1 and I liked (most) of DA2 just fine. (Not that I think you need to be a condescending jackass to have disliked the game)

Correlation =/= Causation, man. :crying:

Modifié par Ulicus, 04 mai 2011 - 06:00 .


#27
Plaintiff

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Yrkoon wrote...
Of course that's exactly what's going on here.    And of course the vast VAST majority of DA2's criticism  (at least on this forum)  stems directly  from the fact that it was such a huge letdown  from the first game.  Or to be more accurate, if you REALLY care to  try and understand where the vast majority of the gripes are coming from, and what they're really about,  then I'd suggest you try to understand the CONTEXT here.  Their  opinons become a little more   valid when you do.

See, this is why you should read what people are actually saying. Because if you had, you would know that I have played Origins. I'm fully aware of the context and the alterations that have been made between games, I know exactly where these people are coming from and I don't care.

When you start acting like any change to a franchise is a personal attack against you, then you're emoptionally invested beyond what is healthy, and that makes your judgement questionable.

#28
LivelyLaughter

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I’m rather astonished that some of you fellow gamers have decided to focus more on my initial statement of being a fan and have turned this into a topic about my credentials, versus the topic I’m discussing. To those of you fellow gamers who have not lost focus on my topic, thank you, I’ll get to that in a moment. To the others, the reason I began with “I’m a fan of Bioware” is that prior too Mass Effect I didn’t consider myself a gamer, I rarely played games, but since the first Mass Effect and DA, Bioware games are the only ones that provide the interactive stories I truly enjoy.

After those two games, I was so impressed by Bioware that I began researching them, just simply because I wanted to know if there were any other games similar to those first two as well as how the company came to be. When Mass Effect 2 came out I was again mesmerized, the story and game play fit so well together and connected all the dots, and filled in all the holes that it was like a 6 course meal, plus desert to finish it off. I’m referring equally to the ending of Mass Effect 2, it was super polished and provided a nice conclusion to the game while still providing plenty of suspense for the third installment.

As for Dragon Age: Awakening, it was alright, it felt like a extra cut of pie and icing added to a nice meal for the first Dragon Age.

Then comes Dragon Age 2, which I did enjoy, do not misunderstand, it was only the ending that infuriated me. If I didn’t like the entire game, why would I have put over 100 hours into the game (yet I can not do another play through because of the ending). For those wondering, the 100 hours was done by doing every single little mission, collecting over 300 gold, and every little thing I could in the game. When I play a game, I sometimes go overboard. ;-)

One person replied that if you side with the Mage’s you lose any chance of becoming Viscount, but if that’s the case, that creates a huge hole in the storyline. Because when given the choice at the beginning of Act 3, I said it should be the people who choice who becomes Viscount! So through out Act 3 the storyline, the companions, and the NPC’s were giving me the impression that my “Champion” would become Viscount because Hawk was helping everyone stand up against oppression (among other things).

In another part of Act 3, I made Hawk the owner of the Bone Pit as payment for everything she had done. Yet, after that there was no mention at all about her owning the mines. Heck, I COULDN’T DO anything with the mines.

With everything I did in the game and all the choices I made, I was expecting much more then for Hawk and all her companions to go running for the hills with their tails between their legs (so to speak). As I said before, I certainly did not expect Bethany to leave her sister’s side, it was nice that Merril stayed, but Bethany should have to. However, I did briefly read one posted mention that Varric may having been lying to protect his friends. So maybe they didn’t split up? Maybe they didn’t go running for the hills?

I do hope, I really do hope Varric was lying at the end to protect the where about’s of his friends and that an expansion or massive DLC finds all of them spread out between Starkhaven and the Bone Pit, maybe even Sundermount.

Overall my frustration is that Bioware left the game without any closure, only a mass of unanswered questions, and questions as to why the questions were unanswered. Especially considering that Dragon Age Origins and Dragon Age 2 were played by completely different characters, it makes me wonder whether or not the same will be true for DA3. Because at least for me, when I spend so much time learning about a character and their companions, whether in a game, a book, or in a movie, I would expect a sequel to continue with those same characters.

So to leave DA2 the way it ended with Varric’s vague comments, leads me to wonder whether or not I wasted all my time caring and creating an emotional connection with the characters and companions. Originally I didn’t like the idea of starting DA2 with a completely new character, but I wasn’t entirely against it, BECAUSE DA Origins and DA Awakening provided some decent closure for each character. Where as with DA 2 there is none of that!

I’ll take that a step further, the way I played the game was to help the innocent and those who needed someone to speak on their behalf. I helped all the victims no matter if they were mages or not. Due to that that, about 90% of all the people in the city where on my side, as ACT 3 continued more and more NPC’s within the city were supporting my character and there was an uprising starting against the Templars, or more so against Meredith.

This is again the reason I’m so disappointed in the way the game ended, because to me, it’s missing a chapter…it’s unfinished. There should be something more to fill in the empty gap, but there isn’t and that’s just very unsettling. Which is why I’m now uncertain about buying future Dragon Age games, I need better, truer closure with this game first. An not just some brief small mention, but something I can sink my teeth into. Some big DLC or expansion to fill in this huge hole that DA2 has left me with so that I can feel content and somewhat happy about what ever happens next.

Lastly the reason I have written out so much detail (and yes criticized the ending the way I have) is that I’m hoping in some off chance a Bioware designer might scan through the forum and see this. Because I have seen interviews in which the lead Bioware’s designers have openly stated that they have sought fan input via these and other forums. So, for anyone wondering, that is half of the reason I’m verbally criticizing the game, not because I don’t like the game, I do, just not the ending. I’m doing this because I’m hoping there’s a chance someone at Bioware might read this and take from it, regardless of whether or not I ever know that happened. The other reason I wrote this out, is to vent my frustration and too see if anyone else felt similarly; which it seems that some do.

Modifié par LivelyLaughter, 05 mai 2011 - 05:53 .


#29
LivelyLaughter

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By the way, it's cool if we do not all agree on the same thing, just please stay civilized and focus on the topic and don't attack each other.

:-)

#30
Lestatman

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Has to be the worst ending ever to a game. Think I would call it a cliff hanger rather than an ending.

#31
Yrkoon

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Plaintiff wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...
Of course that's exactly what's going on here.    And of course the vast VAST majority of DA2's criticism  (at least on this forum)  stems directly  from the fact that it was such a huge letdown  from the first game.  Or to be more accurate, if you REALLY care to  try and understand where the vast majority of the gripes are coming from, and what they're really about,  then I'd suggest you try to understand the CONTEXT here.  Their  opinons become a little more   valid when you do.

See, this is why you should read what people are actually saying. Because if you had, you would know that I have played Origins. I'm fully aware of the context and the alterations that have been made between games, I know exactly where these people are coming from and I don't care.

When you start acting like any change to a franchise is a personal attack against you, then you're emoptionally invested beyond what is healthy, and that makes your judgement questionable.

Hilarious that you'd manage to interpret  anything said on this thread as being about You, or   your gaming history.

They are not.    And you know it.   You're Dodging the point that was made  because you have no rebuttal to it.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 05 mai 2011 - 11:22 .


#32
cdtrk65

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Lestatman wrote...

Has to be the worst ending ever to a game. Think I would call it a cliff hanger rather than an ending.


I guess you never played the Soul Reaver franchise...ugh talk about horrible endings. Still I agree, the game seemed to end just as the story had finally hit full gear.

#33
LivelyLaughter

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cdtrk65 wrote...

Lestatman wrote...

Has to be the worst ending ever to a game. Think I would call it a cliff hanger rather than an ending.


I guess you never played the Soul Reaver franchise...ugh talk about horrible endings. Still I agree, the game seemed to end just as the story had finally hit full gear.


Like I was saying in my last reply, there should have been an ACT 4! ;-)

#34
SmokeyNinjas

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I agree just not to the same extremes. I felt the gameplay was much more fluid & better in DA2 & I enjoyed the DA2 story more then DAO as it felt more complex & less generic. I also felt the companions were well developed in DA2 although none of them can quite compare to how awesome Shale was.

The pacing of act 3 did feel very off & rushed & didn't even have a proper end wouldn't say i was "totally disgusted in the way Bioware decided to end the game" but it definitely left a sour taste still though its sets the scene very well for DA3 & over all while not being Biowares most complete package i still feel its a good game.

Guess the only thing i'm really pissed  about is them locking sebastian out of the game & charging me extra to download a key to unlock him<_<

#35
Nixter Shepard

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Origin's ending was almost perfect in my opinion. You accomplished your goal, you get some time for a resolution within your squadmates, and you really feel like what you did meant something and that your journey and tale was worth telling.

DA2's ending failed to do any of that. It feels more like an accidental series of events that Hawke just so happens to get him/herself mixed up in. You don't get any real resolution or closer nor do you feel that anything you did within Act 3 was at all important. All we know by the end of the game is that Hawke is praised by either the mages or the templars.

#36
Ari87

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The ending was not good. Not from a gameplay perspective and most certainly not from a storytelling perspective. Everything that happened was railroaded which is pretty much the single worst mistake a storyteller in an RPG can make. Even more so when the game in question advertised it's system of complex choices. If none of them affect the final act then you DID NOT HAVE A CHOICE AT ALL.

#37
Woofy128

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LivelyLaughter wrote...

cdtrk65 wrote...

Lestatman wrote...

Has to be the worst ending ever to a game. Think I would call it a cliff hanger rather than an ending.


I guess you never played the Soul Reaver franchise...ugh talk about horrible endings. Still I agree, the game seemed to end just as the story had finally hit full gear.


Like I was saying in my last reply, there should have been an ACT 4! ;-)


After reading your opening post, I find I agree with you. To me it feels like it was chopped off early. I was genuinely surprised and not a little disappointed to see credits rolling when I expected to see a fourth act.

Doesn't Mr. Laidlaw mention "ten" years of history? 1+3+3 is... seven? Plus another three would be ten. Perhaps they simply ran out of time and money and had to wrap it up. Disappointing, and I do hope they give us a fourth act through an expansion or something.

Edit: And respect for your well spoken post written without fanaticism. If you are going back through Bioware games I would suggest you check out neverwinter nights' two-part expansion Shadows of Undrentide and Hordes of the Underdark. I think GOG carries them. Dated graphics but I think you would enjoy those games, judging by what you've written.

Modifié par Woofy128, 05 mai 2011 - 09:36 .


#38
LivelyLaughter

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Nixter Shepard wrote...

Origin's ending was almost perfect in my opinion. You accomplished your goal,
you get some time for a resolution within your squadmates, and you really feel
like what you did meant something and that your journey and tale was worth
telling.

DA2's ending failed to do any of that. It feels more like an accidental series
of events that Hawke just so happens to get him/herself mixed up in. You don't
get any real resolution or closer nor do you feel that anything you did within
Act 3 was at all important. All we know by the end of the game is that Hawke is
praised by either the mages or the templars.

Exactly! I completely agree! :-)



Woofy128 wrote...

If you are going back through Bioware games I would suggest
you check out neverwinter nights' two-part expansion Shadows of Undrentide and
Hordes of the Underdark. I think GOG carries them.


Thanks for the game tips Woofy, I’m grateful! I’ll look into those! :-)

Modifié par LivelyLaughter, 07 mai 2011 - 12:10 .


#39
Viyu

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Yrkoon wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...
The latter, if I sense that the poster's rantings  don't even approach jr. high level, and thus not worth my attention

But where were we?  Oh yeah...

This isn't really disproving my aformentioned hypothesis that "long-time Bioware fans are condescending jackasses"

It's funny that you bring up jr. high because the cliqueyness and elitism of these forums is a major blast from the past.

Jr. High elitism?  Say what?  Where did you go to jr. high?


That's not  even remotely true.


When I need a medical opinion, I'll seek it from a physician, not, say, a stockboy at Walmart.  Why?  because  a Doctor's opinion  on medical subjects is far more valid than the stockboy's opinion on medical subjects.

"Hurr durr I'll take a single sentence out of context and construct my entire argument around it".

Bullsh*t.    Out of context nothing.    When you make an absolute statement,   I'm gonna  bring it down with  an example that disproves it.  Don't like it?  Then don't make silly absolute statements.

<gag>


Similar concept here.  When someone comes on this board and tells me that  DA2 is the only bioware game he's ever played, I  *won't* place more validity on his opinions - no matter what  they are -  than I will if someone comes on here and says:  hey, I've been playing Bioware games since 2001 and I think DA2 is  (insert opinion of the game)

So you admit to elitism.

Except that it's not elitism.  It's simply an example of how to whittle through a sea of opinions and find the ones that are most valid for the subject being discussed.   (DA2 IS a sequel, remember?)  I tend to apply similar  judgement-making with different subjects of discussion.  For example,    If this were a discussion about what NEW bioware fans thought of DA2, I would discard all opinions made by long time Bioware fans.



The latter contains context.  A comparison is about to be made...  I can sink my teeth into comparisons because comparisons  are how you judge subjective things  (ie.  it's better than X; it's more actiony than Y;  It's got better Graphics than Z; the story is more fleshed out than  V.  etc.)

But that's not what's going on here. People are acting as if they've been personally insulted and are parading their opinions around like they are objective truth when, in fact, playing and liking Bioware's previous titles means nothing except that you played and liked Bioware's previous titles. Having played other games by Bioware doesn't speak for how good of quality this game is in comparison to the others. It just speaks for how in line it is with their personal taste.


To support an argument that the game is good or not, one would need reasonably objective arguments for what's wrong with it and that has nothing to do with other games Bioware has made. And you know what? When people are squawking about being stabbed in the back or slapped in the face they are not demonstrating reason or objectivity.

You can say what you like about my level of maturity (nice use of ad hominem by the way), but I'm not belittling anyone's opinion the way you are mine. I'm simply pointing out the poor way they choose to express it.


Of course that's exactly what's going on here.    And of course the vast VAST majority of DA2's criticism  (at least on this forum)  stems directly  from the fact that it was such a huge letdown  from the first game.  Or to be more accurate, if you REALLY care to  try and understand where the vast majority of the gripes are coming from, and what they're really about,  then I'd suggest you try to understand the CONTEXT here.  Their  opinons become a little more   valid when you do.


I don't think this is elitism I think someone playing for the first time has NO idea what people expect when they buy a bioware game so its easy for them to enjoy it compared to everybody else who they've built an entirely different stream of expectations with. The whole "choices doesn't matter" issue being one of those big uspoken (but obvious) contracts the devs broke with their fans big time in this game at least.

#40
gillouzekid

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I just finished for the 4th time the story, and i must admit i really liked the story and all, and i cannot compare it to DA:O since i've never played it, but the fact that Varric tells the Seeker off, she goes away, and then the game ends with nothing you can do is infuriating, you can't even get out of the house (unless you have the Black Emporium DLC which doesn't make it better of an end).
It's like you can either go shopping to a contraband market or rot in your house while waiting for Bioware to finish Star wars: the old republic, and get DA:3 done.
At least let us wander around Kirkwall and talk around, do side quest, find recipes and stuff. Why would you block everything out in the first place ???

#41
Nerdage

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So basically the OP is about wanting to talk to companions post-Meredith? I agree. I don't think I'd call it a slap in the face (only game that's ever slapped me in the face was Haze.. *shudder*), but there should certainly be more to 'always leave them wanting more' than just not really telling them how it ends.

At the end of Origins I really wanted more because of how attached I was to the characters, but this time around I want more because, well... what the hell happened? The annoying thing is DA2 had the good characters just like Origins, I would've wanted more anyway.

Eh, we'll see what happens next, I guess.

#42
Lemmiwinks1

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I thought the characters were lame, melodramatic, and totally uninteresting. Fenris is a melodramatic JRPG douche. Anders is an emotionally crippled wuss and totally different than in DA:A. Merril is Tali version 2.0 for her cuteness and frequent naiveness. Isabella is Morrigan version 2.0 for her disbelief in love and general selfishness. Aveline is basically a walking statue of a man. Varric is cool, but the relationship doesn't really go any deeper than that.

As for romances, they use the cheap tactic of melodrama for a "more emotionally driven" scene.

For the Hawke family, well they just kind of all died or left and it was totally out of your control, and you, Hawke, seemed unchanged by any of it. Plus come on, how you're mother croaked, what the hell was that?

This game is absolutely emotionally dull, has 2D melodramatic characters and no plot. Its just a "read your quest log to go do stuff, and check your mail box to go do stuff." Absolutely horrid and a huge let down in comparison to DA:O.

http://www.youtube.com/user/smudboy <----watch this guy's 5 part disection of this game, its eye opening. You have to put in more than ~1.5 years to make a good game Bioware, I will never pre-order from them again.

Modifié par Lemmiwinks1, 02 juin 2011 - 03:21 .


#43
Beerfish

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They made two mistakes at the end of the game.
1) Having Orsino go whack job. They could have still made the mage conflict strong without hauling out the harvester.
2) Not having a proper wrap up for the companions that we had invested in so much.

Some of the companions were very very good, among the best in any BioWare game others only medium.

The game was enjoyable and had lots of replay value, but it had it's flaws as well.

#44
Lethys1

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I played DA:O 3 times all the way through, started many more playthroughs than that going to varying lengths and dumped more hours into it than basically any game I've ever had in the past five years.

I also played two full Mass Effect playthroughs and four ME2 playthroughs.  I definitely considered Bioware my top 5 favorite developers.  DA2 rolls around, and I am cautiously optimistic based on all the changes.  Figured even if the combat was terrible, the story would be good.

I really felt like a gigantic, emo, whiny kid was just shoving a gigantic middle finger in my face as I was playing this atrocity.  I couldn't stand the plot.  I turned off the game at certain parts because I couldn't even handle how bad the story had gotten, and saw that I was being forced into options I did not want.

The big problem is that it is not morally grey, but morally black.  There are two bad guys to choose from, and neither is better than the other.  Either support the blood mages who attack you regardless, or the templars who will attack you regardless.

I stay on these forums still because I truly think Dragon Age 3 could be good if these guys stay loyal to their fans and don't try to forsake us like they did with DA2. 

#45
themonty72

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Yes I can understand why most hate the ending.. Act 3 was waaaaay to short and left a sour taste in your mouth like asprin.After all that hard work and performing and completing missions for your companions the ending never explain why they left Hawk side, its was like they was written off..Siding with the templars same results, siding with mages same results.
But look at this way DA2 was nothing but a set up for DA3.

Modifié par themonty72, 02 juin 2011 - 05:32 .