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[Foolsfolly]

It's also possible that Bartrand's nuttiness was due to being seperated from it. Withdraw, if you will. The ghost golem? NFI there. =/

I could easily accept withdrawal.

Still have no idea about the ghost golem and the haunting. I think the red lyrium's alive, it's the only thing that explains that....plus we totally saw that organic matter can become red lyrium.

[TEWR]

Maybe the idol thins the Veil, and as we've seen from Broken Circle, Golem type entities do exist in the Fade. We fight at least 12 of them

[Sussurus]

It may just have been me, but did the Thaig have a very Tevinter feel to it.
Like the dungeon in the dalish elf story.


The spikey stone almost evil assyrian look made it seem like cross race influence in looks.

[TEWR]

What I found odd is that one thing you'll always find is a carved ring of the Vhenadahl. It's a set treasure item.


I'm grasping at straws here, but could that mean that elves lived there too? or traded with these dwarves? Personally, I think it's unlikely but still I ask

edit: and yes, I'm stalking/lurking/whatever my own thread.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 04 mai 2011 - 01:53 .

[Rifneno]

Sussurus wrote...

Just to add something else...
DA:O in the urn of Andraste ashes quest, Oghren explicitly states that the sheer amount of Lyrium in the mountain is of a nature he'd never felt.
That everything there was of a result of its influence and not divine in nature.

Lyrium of such power or quantity seems to pretty much make anything real.

The idol itself could be a god, or have so much power that its presence around sentient creatures shapes belief into something else.

Also the singing is not only exclusive to the old gods... chant of light.
Andrastes voice singing and calling the maker.
Dalish songs to mark moments of importance.

I don't think Sandal suddenly became able to use magic...
I think he is a member of whatever dwarven race lived in the Thaig.
More than likely we will see more of his people soon, or at least those that drove them.

Maybe they were the fisrt Darkspawn.
Tevinter and Dwarven experiments to be used in one of the civil wars that the race goes through.
Dwarven mages turned abomination, effected by Lyrium, destroying themselves.
The other dwarves found ways to tranquil themselves in an effort to stop the spread.. but the spawn evolved.

Interesting.
- I think Oghren's lyrium dialogue is more to provide an alternative explanation to the obvious one.  Without his lyrium note we'd pretty much have to accept that Andraste really was God the Maker's chosen one and all that jaz.  It keeps some mystery and doubt in the Urn of Sacred Ashes storyline.

- Sandal being a member of that lost dwarves has been discussed but I think it has more merit than people think.  One of the items you get from the thaig has a codex story about one of the ancient dwarven thaigs or houses or something locking its doors mysteriously one day.  Eventually when the king ordered the doors bashed open, everyone inside had vanished into thin air.  It's possible the civilization didn't simply die but rather was sent to another plane somehow.  If that's the case, perhaps Sandal stumbled upon a way back.  Or maybe instead of another plane, they were sent through time and Sandal just happened to land in the era of DA.

The biggest question I have with Sandal isn't even his origins or his powers, it's whether he's faking the whole "slow" thing.

- Too many people assume the "scary lady" is Flemeth.  It could be Leandra's ghost (what ghost isn't scary?), it could be him seeing a random desire demon through Kirkwall's paper-thin veil, some people even think it was Meredith.  Not sure how that one would work out but there's lots of theories on the "scary lady."  IMO the most telling part of the conversation was what Bodahn said.  That Sandal often sees these things that no one else can and that it's probably a savant thing.  That indicates the strange thing isn't what he's seeing but that he can see it.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

What I found odd is that one thing you'll always find is a carved ring of the Vhenadahl. It's a set treasure item.


I'm grasping at straws here, but could that mean that elves lived there too? or traded with these dwarves? Personally, I think it's unlikely but still I ask

edit: and yes, I'm stalking/lurking/whatever my own thread.

Hrm.  That's a very good point.  It wouldn't be the subtlest hint they ever gave us.  Klendagon makes that look like a giant neon sign.

[Sussurus]

The DA:O dalish link has that dwarves and elves had trading going on for years.
It pretty much had many areas where elves and humans co-existed before wars, the arcane warriors spirit said as much.
In witch hunt you see that elves and dwarves had co habitated.
Not to mention in DA:O and I think in 2 as well it is common point that both the tevinter and dwarven kingdoms were at their height at the same time.

Yes the Oghren lines may be an out I failed to account there.
 Sten felt more like that to me tbh, Oghren just seemed for the first time actually knowledgeable and plain.
If he had thrown out some lines in his usual manner I would dismiss it more.

I would suppose that all three races long before the exhalted march had forgotten many links between themselves.
After wars, blights, enslavement, treachery and schisms of religion it did not matter what happened to anyone.

I like the idea of Sandal being from elsewhere, I think some more about the profane could help as well.
As the hunger demon did say they feasted beyond the memories ( dwarven history I took it. )
Which means whatever happened there occured so long ago that no orzamar history was around to record it. 

Yes the Flemith - Sandal link is hazzy, it could be the empress of orlais.. especially if she is a mage in secret.
It's just the laugh part that narrows the list down.
I did chuckle at Leandra's ghost, if Leandra laughed the veil would shatter not weaken... JK.

Modifié par Sussurus, 04 mai 2011 - 04:58 .

[JoHnDoE14]

My theory in fact, is even more chaotic. I believe that all of the 3 theories you mentioned are true.
In other words, I believe that Red Lyrium has something to do with the Old Gods, which also gives anyone approprietly trained who also happens to not be capable of magic (dwarves) the ability to use some form of 'anti-magic', much like the real world 'anti matter'. To someone not capable however, the result would be something like 2. I know, I just blown your head.

[Nepenthe87]

My theory was that long ago the dwarves were once Magic-Forgers. As in they had the ability to forge lyrium into items that let the dwarves channel magical energy and spells through said items. So dwarves were still magicless but they had the ability to make focuses through which they could channel the power of the fade.

I always figured sandal was a natural at this "magic-forging" and that is why he can create runes as good as any tranquil. Maybe he was able to "activate" a frost rune and release all of its power instantly and that is what froze the ogre?

It makes sense to me because other than the idol I haven't really seen any other items that can use magic. By use magic i mean things that project magic outwardly (wand of fireball, ice blast, etc) and arent just enchantments. The litany of Adralla is the only other thing i can think of but even that is more like an enchanted spell scroll rather than an item that can use magic.

I always figured the idol was something the dwarves created that possibly was too taboo to use like the anvil of the void or it was corrupted by darkpawn or something else living in the thaig.

Modifié par Nepenthe87, 04 mai 2011 - 05:22 .

[Mykel54]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Second, let's examine the enemies within the Primeval Thaig. We fight Golems. That's right, Golems. This suggests that the Dwarves of the Primeval Thaig discovered a way to create Golems long before Caridin did. What's even stranger is that these Golems seem to use some sort of magic as well. By that I mean when the Golem you first fight is crouching and drawing in energy. Golems using spells isn't something we've seen before, save for in Amgarrak.

I disagree about the Golems. If you noticed you only see the Golems in the higher levels, and then some in the lower levels. You never see any golem inside the primeval thaig per se (from the place where you find the idol, onward) but only above it. My theory is that it is like archeology, the top levels indicate more recient periods, while the lower levels indicate older periods. I also disagree about the idea that these golems are different because they use some magic, it has already been said in the lore (even if it was not present in origins) that when golems were common they were modified to improve them, it is natural to think that being formed by lyrium, all golems should have the potential to use some form of magic (this is why Wilhelm probably realised that Shale would make for an excellent mana battery, something related to the lyrium inside her).

[TEWR]

Mykel54 wrote...



I disagree about the Golems. If you noticed you only see the Golems in the higher levels, and then some in the lower levels. You never see any golem inside the primeval thaig per se (from the place where you find the idol, onward) but only above it. My theory is that it is like archeology, the top levels indicate more recient periods, while the lower levels indicate older periods.

You see, I'd accept this if we didn't fight a golem within the actual Primeval Thaig itself.

I also disagree about the idea that these golems are different because they use some magic, it has already been said in the lore (even if it was not present in origins) that when golems were common they were modified to improve them, it is natural to think that being formed by lyrium, all golems should have the potential to use some form of magic (this is why Wilhelm probably realised that Shale would make for an excellent mana battery, something related to the lyrium inside her).

If they were modified when they were common, why was Amgarrak the first of the Dwarven Thaigs to make Golems that use magic? This is something Jerrik Dace hadn't seen or heard of before

[TEWR]

It's possible. Caridin may have just recreated something the Dwarves of the Primeval Thaig had first discovered. Or maybe Caridin was descended from these Dwarves, and his family knew something about it. Or, he just found a magical slab of metal and started making giant toy statues on it and discovered they came to life =P


To Mykel:




at around the 17:50 mark, this player went into a room that had a golem. This was after the Lyrium Idol was found and Bartrand shut the door.

[TEWR]

Foolsfolly wrote...

It's also possible that Bartrand's nuttiness was due to being seperated from it. Withdraw, if you will. The ghost golem? NFI there. =/

I could easily accept withdrawal.

Still have no idea about the ghost golem and the haunting. I think the red lyrium's alive, it's the only thing that explains that....plus we totally saw that organic matter can become red lyrium.

I just figured it out. The golem is called an Ethereal Golem, and when you go to the Fade in Awakening lyrium potions, health potions, and stamina draughts are all called Ethereal __________, so this golem has to be some sort of Fade Golem just like the ones you fight in Broken Circle's Fade quest.


So I was right on the money.

[Rifneno]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

It's also possible that Bartrand's nuttiness was due to being seperated from it. Withdraw, if you will. The ghost golem? NFI there. =/

I could easily accept withdrawal.

Still have no idea about the ghost golem and the haunting. I think the red lyrium's alive, it's the only thing that explains that....plus we totally saw that organic matter can become red lyrium.

I just figured it out. The golem is called an Ethereal Golem, and when you go to the Fade in Awakening lyrium potions, health potions, and stamina draughts are all called Ethereal __________, so this golem has to be some sort of Fade Golem just like the ones you fight in Broken Circle's Fade quest.


So I was right on the money.

Congratulations.    Now...  have we figured out why the lyrium is growing like some weird alien plantlife?  Hehe.

[Fast Jimmy]

Rifneno wrote...

Congratulations.    Now...  have we figured out why the lyrium is growing like some weird alien plantlife?  Hehe.

Because the Qun demands it.

[Fast Jimmy]

Silly double post...

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 07 mai 2011 - 01:52 .

[Sussurus]

Blood of the maker.. Lyrium veins, taken literally could imply veins as a metheod to transport lifesblood.

Ohhh maybe it's organic, why the dalish had trades with the dwarves maybe they could shape it like Ironbark.

Or more likely it looks cool, and many games have used crystalized veins growing like that before.

Modifié par Sussurus, 07 mai 2011 - 02:36 .

[TEWR]

Rifneno wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

It's also possible that Bartrand's nuttiness was due to being seperated from it. Withdraw, if you will. The ghost golem? NFI there. =/

I could easily accept withdrawal.

Still have no idea about the ghost golem and the haunting. I think the red lyrium's alive, it's the only thing that explains that....plus we totally saw that organic matter can become red lyrium.

I just figured it out. The golem is called an Ethereal Golem, and when you go to the Fade in Awakening lyrium potions, health potions, and stamina draughts are all called Ethereal __________, so this golem has to be some sort of Fade Golem just like the ones you fight in Broken Circle's Fade quest.


So I was right on the money.

Congratulations.    Now...  have we figured out why the lyrium is growing like some weird alien plantlife?  Hehe.

It's alive!! It's been spying on you!

The walls of lyrium have eyes!

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 07 mai 2011 - 07:19 .

[tausra]

What if all the songs are the same? The Chant, the Lyrium, the Darkspawn, all of it are the same song just heard by different people. Music that compels the listener to obey the singer.

Tangent 1: The Old Gods, the Archdemons, Sang. They sang as Gods over the world until trapped by one of their own, the Dalish Trickster. The Trickster sang the song to both the Dalish and the humans. Humanity called the trickster Maker, the Dalish stopped listening. The "Maker" angry at being snubbed sang to the humans and told them to punish the Elves.

Eventually the old gods sang to the Tevinter, sending their voices through the lyrium and the fade. They urged Tevinter to create servants that they could use, creating the Darkspawn. The old gods decided it was better to destroy the earth than it was to let the trickster win.

[Skilled Seeker]

How's this for a radical idea. Red lyrium is the physical vessel that contains the Fade. The Magisters used it to enter the Golden City. It grows as the Fade expands. Eventually it will overwhelm the physical world.

Mind = blown.

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 07 mai 2011 - 09:52 .

[TEWR]

Filament wrote...

Heavy.

I just hope it doesn't start sounding like indoctrination 2.0, or get into some strange vibrating extradimensional string explanation for the music.

Lyrium Idols, the Thedas equivalent of Crystal Skulls

[LobselVith8]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Lyrium Idols, the Thedas equivalent of Crystal Skulls

Does that make Alistair Indy since we saved his adoptive father?

Nathaniel's venture into the Deep Roads may have has something to do with the Lyrium Idol. Every Warden seemed to be secretive about what they were doing, and I wonder what the endgame is. Is it tied to Sandal's prophecy that the magic is coming back, perhaps? I wonder if the presence of the golems implies that some dwarves found the primeval thaig before.

[Xilizhra]

Something big is definitely coming. Dragons returned, more mages are being born than ever before... I wonder if finding the primeval thaig is related to that somehow? If it was destined to be found at that moment?