8 réponses à ce sujet

[bleetman]

A question which came to mind from reading this thread regarding whether people killed Anders in their first playthrough.

At various stages, different characters can turn on you, forcing a fight to the death. With companions, this is dependant on your end-game allegience and (generally speaking) their approval level. With others (like, say, Merrill's clan) it's just a conversation choice thing. They attack, and you're forced to kill them.

Let's suppose however that due to the martial/arcane expertise of Hawke and his/her companions, you could beat them into submission/unconscioussness/defeat with less than lethal attacks. I'm suggesting this because the 'two men enter, one man leaves. Later, the pieces of the other man are scooped up and put in a bucket' mentality of ingame fighting bothers me a little at times. When characters do surrender, it's always a result of the game interceding at low health. Whilst that's a practical necessity - you can't know in advance which characters will suddenly give up and spout words at the brink of defeat - sometimes I'd have preferred the option to knock a character out and run for it, especially when things get conflicted. Merrill's clan attacking you doesn't have to mean her and Hawke slaughtering them down to the last man. Fenris trying to kill Hawke for helping mages shouldn't automatically mean running him through with a sword as if he was a faceless mercenary.

So, assuming you could, would you? If you did, who would you let go, and who wouldn't you? And would doing so be considered 'the cheap option'?

Modifié par bleetman, 04 mai 2011 - 02:03 .

[Asdara]

Yes and no - I could see it being an interesting option... sometimes.

Like with Merrill and her whole clan there should be an easier way to avoid that. I realize they are upset about the death of the Keeper, but she was a big girl and made her own decision and if they really respected her then maybe they wouldn't be oh-so-willing to get slaughtered by someone who killed the Arishok and a boat load of Quinari just a few years back - something even the Dalish hear about on the mountainside. If avoiding it meant knocking her out and dragging her along, so be it, but more likely I'd kill the head of the elves with the murder knife and then ask the crowd if they wanted to live or if they wanted to try to stop me from leaving with my friend. THAT would have made sense, and also been very rewardingly bad-ass at the same time.

Fenris is a kill or be killed situation - he's wired that way, even if the player is not, so that makes sense but maybe could have been more optional. Basically, I think, if you didn't kill Fenris outright, he'd be a problem somewhere down the road later, repeatedly.

Anders's situation is different - he's offering himself, he gave up after he made his boom, and his usefulness in the long term becomes extremely limited by the fact that he's officially the most hated mage in Thedas at that point. I think killing him is, in a lot of ways, a mercy he doesn't deserve if you're the kind of character that would kill him "for what he did" and killing him becomes a matter of damage-control. Letting him live has its own motivators and I think a choice to just "knock him out and deal with him later" would be FAR too watered down an option for that decision point.


On the other hand, it tells us something about the society of Thedas that people who have been as close as the Champion and the Companions - or even the Warden and the Companions, because this fight to the death anger is not new - can come down to mortal combat over an issue.  Life is brutal in Thedas - people expect to get attacked - they walk around with weapons at all times - dragons come out of no where when you're working in a mine - murders that take place aren't considered connected because there are so many murders that happen... it's in your face when someone you have been allies with turns on you over some breakpoint.

Modifié par Asdara, 04 mai 2011 - 02:22 .

[Icy Magebane]

So you're saying... don't kill your opponents in combat? No, not interested in that. I prefer to keep things simple: anybody who fights me either kills me or dies, no exceptions.

[Knight of Dane]

I can't see the harm in it being an option.

It would depend on my character wether or not i would make use of that option or still go through with the throatslitting.

However I'm pretty much always in a orgy with all the character rivalry or friendship so they naver turn on me.

People have talked about something called 'renegade/paragon' actions from ME2, i've only played that game for half an hour myself and only got to try one renegade thingy against a guy in a full helmet in a room with alot of screens.
If that would work in da2?
Propably. I wouldn't mind being able to interrupt something like Huon killing Nyssa or Grace bloodmagic'ing Thrask.

[bleetman]

Icy Magebane wrote...

So you're saying... don't kill your opponents in combat?

No, I'm saying that when a companion of nearly a decade turns against Hawke, it'd be swell to not be forced to cut them down where they stand.

[Asdara]

Knight of Dane wrote...

I can't see the harm in it being an option.

It would depend on my character wether or not i would make use of that option or still go through with the throatslitting.

However I'm pretty much always in a orgy with all the character rivalry or friendship so they naver turn on me.

People have talked about something called 'renegade/paragon' actions from ME2, i've only played that game for half an hour myself and only got to try one renegade thingy against a guy in a full helmet in a room with alot of screens.
If that would work in da2?
Propably. I wouldn't mind being able to interrupt something like Huon killing Nyssa or Grace bloodmagic'ing Thrask.

Y'know... come to think of it I did miss the interrupts.  They were never in DA line, but I did play ME2 when it came over to PS3 between the DA titles and that was a nice little feature - I am not sure I like the system it works on though.  Being moral scaled would mess with DA's gray area choice system.  I felt judged all the time, by the game - not even through the buffer of companion commentary in ME and it made the long term, reward seeking game behavior coded into my mind by years of playing other games take over and run me through Paragon every damn time unless I made great efforts to be a total **** instead.  Don't want.

If the interrupts could be linked to something like the tone calculator the conversation decisions triggered that might be sweet - I'd like them to remain optional / player initiated though.

[Icy Magebane]

bleetman wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

So you're saying... don't kill your opponents in combat?

No, I'm saying that when a companion of nearly a decade turns against Hawke, it'd be swell to not be forced to cut them down where they stand.

If anybody attacks Hawke, they die.  I doubt that they were just looking to beat him into submission, and even so... no, I don't care who it is, I'd kill them.

Although I am not opposed to giving players more options... it's not anything I'd use, but I want people to have as many choices as they can in this type of game.

@Asdara - actually, I feel that way about the rivalry system and DA:O's approval system.  I just can't stand it when followers don't like my PC... unless it's somebody I also dislike, such as Anders.  But I have felt compelled to max out friendship or whatever when given the option, and that sometimes interferes with what I want to do regarding the story.  This happens to the point where I'll swap party members for specific decisions that I know some people will agree with, or do quests solo just to avoid disapproval!  Yeah, I know... it's crazy.  As for Paragon/Renegade... eh... I'll just leave that alone.  Personally, I prefer Renegade, and don't really see it as negatively.

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 04 mai 2011 - 04:51 .

[Asdara]

Icy Magebane wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

So you're saying... don't kill your opponents in combat?

No, I'm saying that when a companion of nearly a decade turns against Hawke, it'd be swell to not be forced to cut them down where they stand.

If anybody attacks Hawke, they die.  I doubt that they were just looking to beat him into submission, and even so... no, I don't care who it is, I'd kill them.

Although I am not opposed to giving players more options... it's not anything I'd use, but I want people to have as many choices as they can in this type of game.

@Asdara - actually, I feel that way about the rivalry system and DA:O's approval system.  I just can't stand it when followers don't like my PC... unless it's somebody I also dislike, such as Anders.  But I have felt compelled to max out friendship or whatever when given the option, and that sometimes interferes with what I want to do regarding the story.  This happens to the point where I'll swap party members for specific decisions that I know some people will agree with, or do quests solo just to avoid disapproval!  Yeah, I know... it's crazy.  As for Paragon/Renegade... eh... I'll just leave that alone.  Personally, I prefer Renegade, and don't really see it as negatively.

It's not crazy, I do that too - but I justify it to my RP self by saying I'd know my friends well enough to know not to bring them when I'm going to be doing something they might not like, and I try not to overly abuse the system (especially since a few well placed trinkets can change their opinion of me so readily).  

I don't like the disapproval of friends or being disliked by my companions, but it makes more sense to me than a silent voice in the sky letting me know "you've done something renegade" or "you've done something paragon" which, for me, just disturbs the immersion for me.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

I accidentally killed all the elves in my first playthrough because I didn't know that one of the answers could have prevented it (although that answer didn't seem like something Hawke would say if she was supporting Merrill). Just knocking out a few of the elves and then legging it would have been a more sensible thing to do. But Hawke does like killing, maybe she got carried away.