I have been looking at the great threads helping with building a Blood Mage annd I have one question. I notice that Sacrifice is always listed as a skill to get, but not Grave robber. In fact, I have never seen Grave Robber/One Foot In suggested. Are those not good skills, or is Sacrifice just better?
Thanks!
Blood Mage question
Débuté par
Carol L S
, mai 04 2011 03:38
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#2
Posté 04 mai 2011 - 03:54
mr_afk
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I recommend it! Well.. my guide sorta isn't finished yet so I guess it doesn't really count.
But yeah, it's actually a really useful spell if you use it right. In order to get the best value out of it you'll probably have to upgrade it to one foot in - grave robber by itself sorta sucks.
The 10% of max health in spirit damage may like a lot but it's not. It's really terrible as a damage spell (though it does have some ability to unstealth assassins) so the main reason to get it is to extend the amount of time you can spend using bloodmagic without having to deactivate it and get healed.
The general strategy is when you are low on health to run at a cluster of enemies (dead or alive) and use it. As you gain 10% health each enemy this allows you to go from almost dead to full life if you do it properly. The only slight problem is that the cluster of enemies (if they're not the dead variety) will probably try to hit you - reducing the overall health gain.
I almost exclusively use this over sacrifice and leave sacrifice as a last ditched attempt to survive, e.g. after getting assassin stabbed and having a group chasing you. Sacrifice is alright i suppose, i just don't like having to steal health from my companions (as they are all pretty glassy and need all the health they've got).
Hope that helps.
But yeah, it's actually a really useful spell if you use it right. In order to get the best value out of it you'll probably have to upgrade it to one foot in - grave robber by itself sorta sucks.
The 10% of max health in spirit damage may like a lot but it's not. It's really terrible as a damage spell (though it does have some ability to unstealth assassins) so the main reason to get it is to extend the amount of time you can spend using bloodmagic without having to deactivate it and get healed.
The general strategy is when you are low on health to run at a cluster of enemies (dead or alive) and use it. As you gain 10% health each enemy this allows you to go from almost dead to full life if you do it properly. The only slight problem is that the cluster of enemies (if they're not the dead variety) will probably try to hit you - reducing the overall health gain.
I almost exclusively use this over sacrifice and leave sacrifice as a last ditched attempt to survive, e.g. after getting assassin stabbed and having a group chasing you. Sacrifice is alright i suppose, i just don't like having to steal health from my companions (as they are all pretty glassy and need all the health they've got).
Hope that helps.
#3
Posté 04 mai 2011 - 03:59
Carol L S
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Ok, great! And I will be watching for your guide as well! Thank you.
#4
Posté 04 mai 2011 - 04:05
mr_afk
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Haha no problems. I should have a video of my walking bomb setup up soon. Just need to decide what extra fights to do and include in it - the Varnell battle ended quicker than I expected.
Anyway, good luck with your blood mage
Anyway, good luck with your blood mage
#5
Posté 04 mai 2011 - 04:25
IanPolaris
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Carol L S wrote...
I have been looking at the great threads helping with building a Blood Mage annd I have one question. I notice that Sacrifice is always listed as a skill to get, but not Grave robber. In fact, I have never seen Grave Robber/One Foot In suggested. Are those not good skills, or is Sacrifice just better?
Thanks!
If you've set things up correctly, you should need neither. Your regen rate (especially if you go SH/BM like I usually do) will be so high that you can cast bloodmagic (and even take a few hits) pretty much forever.
However, the rest of the boodmagic tree typically requires at least three BM spells EXCEPT sacrifice (and Graverobber requires 2).
The upshot is that you are pretty much required to take sacrifice anyway if you want to advance in bloodmagic beyond the intial bloomagic mode, and non-upgraded Graverobber sucks while Grim Sacrifice in an absolute emergency is actually useful (especially if you can immediately heal the NPC back...it's a net gain in that case)...and getting Grim Sacrifice gives you exactly three bloodmagic spells which opens up the rest of the specialization tree.
It's a matter of effeciency I suppose. You pretty much have to take sacrifice anyway, and upgrading that and then taken what ever other BM spells you want after seems to be the most optimal/efficient route.
-Polaris
#6
Posté 04 mai 2011 - 05:07
Carol L S
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Interesting. I was planning to go Force/BM, but maybe I could check out SH. Thanks!
#7
Posté 04 mai 2011 - 05:17
mr_afk
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Hm.. it's up to you really. But it's basically the choice between been able to heal or been able to CC. Force mage has the best CC abilities and ability to pull things out of stealth. But as IanPolaris quite rightly said, SH/Blood mages can get such high hp/regen that tanking those assassins isn't quite as much of a problem. Also, without unshakeable you may have to either pump strength (as to increase fortitude or maybe equip warrior armour) or get con levels really high, though the new dlc knock-back immunity gloves do make knock-back less of an issue.
I'm using a glass cannon (less so now) bloodmage/forcemage which relies on the CC ability of force mage to reduce the amount of damage I actually receive - so pretty much allowing me to deal lots of unreturned damage.
I'm using a glass cannon (less so now) bloodmage/forcemage which relies on the CC ability of force mage to reduce the amount of damage I actually receive - so pretty much allowing me to deal lots of unreturned damage.
#8
Posté 04 mai 2011 - 05:22
Carol L S
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Right. I was originally looking for damage output and CC. So many choices! LOL
#9
Posté 04 mai 2011 - 05:44
mr_afk
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Haha for me there weren't enough! 
Anyway, for dmg and CC there's roughly three major choices (with slight variances) unless you make your own experimental build:
1. Pure magic/some will/con: elemental-forcemage/bloodmage - usually specialised in fire spells/staves this build is similar to what Arelex used in the guide. Basically it uses the huge +%fire damage bonuses that can be accumulated. Once you have 100+% fire damage your basic staff attacks and firestorms are going to be pretty deadly. So you'll just CC and trap the enemies and drop fireturds on them. My first mage-run was along this lines (but am really biased against it now...it's just so boring haha). The willpower should be left at the minimum required to equip robes - so via prebuffing you only need around 20 or so, such that no too many points are taken away from magic and con. The new dlc robes make things easier for the first few acts (as they don't have willpower requirements and can be used until you pick up the robe of unblemished cleanliness)
2. High mag/Some dex/cun/con: Physical/Spirit Force mage/bloodmage - this is the build that i'm working on. It's still mostly theory and there isn't much evidence to suggest that this build will perform superiorly damage-wise (besides a whole load of mathematical gymnastics I forced myself through...). This works on the concept that at higher critical damage levels it becomes better to pump dexterity than magic. As pumping cunning is always going to be less effective damage-wise this means that the build relies on equipment for increases in critical damage and critical chance.
From what I can tell, this build should work better than an elemental build at physical and spirit spells, while working less effectively (but still quite well) with elemental damages. This means that if you focus on the blood mage tree (haemorrhage) and spirit staves you'll be able to pump out some pretty impressive numbers. At earlier levels this build can use rogue armour to help increase the critical chance and damage. Note: If they ever remove the restriction to rogues from the stealth boots this build will be waaay better than any elemental build. So i just have to hope that they decide to change it in the next patch haha
3. High Mag/High Will/some con: Force mage/spirit healer - This build pretty much means you have to pump willpower (unlike the others) as you will have to use mana for spell casting. Warriors using rally can help in that regard, but in general you'll have to pump more willpower than bloodmages need to pump constitution. This does allow easy equipping of robes - and as such, this build is probably suited towards elemental damage. So it would pretty much be the same as 1. but without blood mage abilities and with the ability to heal instead.
4. There is a possibility that a warrior-armoured mage with really high hp can perform CC and damage output. I've included the idea in my thread but it's a lot more about survivability (and frankly sounds really boring to me). I prefer bigger numbers haha.
If you decide that CC isn't as important there's even more builds possible as it means that blood-mage spirit healer builds become more viable. I won't go into that because I've spieled probably more than enough a long time ago.
Anyway, for dmg and CC there's roughly three major choices (with slight variances) unless you make your own experimental build:
1. Pure magic/some will/con: elemental-forcemage/bloodmage - usually specialised in fire spells/staves this build is similar to what Arelex used in the guide. Basically it uses the huge +%fire damage bonuses that can be accumulated. Once you have 100+% fire damage your basic staff attacks and firestorms are going to be pretty deadly. So you'll just CC and trap the enemies and drop fireturds on them. My first mage-run was along this lines (but am really biased against it now...it's just so boring haha). The willpower should be left at the minimum required to equip robes - so via prebuffing you only need around 20 or so, such that no too many points are taken away from magic and con. The new dlc robes make things easier for the first few acts (as they don't have willpower requirements and can be used until you pick up the robe of unblemished cleanliness)
2. High mag/Some dex/cun/con: Physical/Spirit Force mage/bloodmage - this is the build that i'm working on. It's still mostly theory and there isn't much evidence to suggest that this build will perform superiorly damage-wise (besides a whole load of mathematical gymnastics I forced myself through...). This works on the concept that at higher critical damage levels it becomes better to pump dexterity than magic. As pumping cunning is always going to be less effective damage-wise this means that the build relies on equipment for increases in critical damage and critical chance.
From what I can tell, this build should work better than an elemental build at physical and spirit spells, while working less effectively (but still quite well) with elemental damages. This means that if you focus on the blood mage tree (haemorrhage) and spirit staves you'll be able to pump out some pretty impressive numbers. At earlier levels this build can use rogue armour to help increase the critical chance and damage. Note: If they ever remove the restriction to rogues from the stealth boots this build will be waaay better than any elemental build. So i just have to hope that they decide to change it in the next patch haha
3. High Mag/High Will/some con: Force mage/spirit healer - This build pretty much means you have to pump willpower (unlike the others) as you will have to use mana for spell casting. Warriors using rally can help in that regard, but in general you'll have to pump more willpower than bloodmages need to pump constitution. This does allow easy equipping of robes - and as such, this build is probably suited towards elemental damage. So it would pretty much be the same as 1. but without blood mage abilities and with the ability to heal instead.
4. There is a possibility that a warrior-armoured mage with really high hp can perform CC and damage output. I've included the idea in my thread but it's a lot more about survivability (and frankly sounds really boring to me). I prefer bigger numbers haha.
If you decide that CC isn't as important there's even more builds possible as it means that blood-mage spirit healer builds become more viable. I won't go into that because I've spieled probably more than enough a long time ago.
Modifié par mr_afk, 04 mai 2011 - 05:46 .
#10
Posté 04 mai 2011 - 05:46
IanPolaris
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I think FM/BM or SH/BM is largely a matter of taste. I prefer to have nearly indestructable mages myself especially if being nearly indestructable means (ultimately) my party is as well. However, to each their own...I didn't want to say that one or the other was better (just expressing my preference and what that implied for your BM choices). I do think the new DLC gloves makes Force Mage a lot less attractive since after Act 1, Knockback won't be an issue for really anyone.
Regardless of FM or SH, however, the fact is that unless you stop at the Bloodmagic Mode, you have to take Sacrifice no matter what. Given that, if you want offensive BM spells (like Hemmorage), it's more effecient to take Grim Sacrifice (esp if you are a SH) and ignore the Graverobber option entirely, IMO.
-Polaris
Regardless of FM or SH, however, the fact is that unless you stop at the Bloodmagic Mode, you have to take Sacrifice no matter what. Given that, if you want offensive BM spells (like Hemmorage), it's more effecient to take Grim Sacrifice (esp if you are a SH) and ignore the Graverobber option entirely, IMO.
-Polaris
#11
Posté 04 mai 2011 - 06:36
AreleX
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What companions are you going to bring/bringing? It'll be helpful info for giving you better advice.
p.s - mr afk is the worst player
p.s - mr afk is the worst player
#12
Posté 04 mai 2011 - 07:02
mr_afk
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AreleX wrote...
What companions are you going to bring/bringing? It'll be helpful info for giving you better advice.
p.s - mr afk is the worst player
hey! that's not v nice! i even recommended your build first! hmph.
well, looks like i'll have to make more fuzzy videos of my own to prove you wrong
Modifié par mr_afk, 04 mai 2011 - 07:03 .
#13
Posté 04 mai 2011 - 07:31
DW2511
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To the OP, before this turns into a mage comparison thread, this answers your question:
- Sacrifice is enough for a SH who does not use Hemorrage. Steal your buddy's health then heal him/her.
-If you plan on getting Hemorrage as a SH, get Grim Sacrifice to meet the requirements. No Grave Robber needed.
-FMs need more reliable healing, so if you go deep into BM you should get One Foot In.
-If you don't run more than 110% sustainables you can switch out of BM to heal, and use your limited mana to tide you over until the cooldown period ends.
All in all, OFI is better but not always worth the skill investment.
- Sacrifice is enough for a SH who does not use Hemorrage. Steal your buddy's health then heal him/her.
-If you plan on getting Hemorrage as a SH, get Grim Sacrifice to meet the requirements. No Grave Robber needed.
-FMs need more reliable healing, so if you go deep into BM you should get One Foot In.
-If you don't run more than 110% sustainables you can switch out of BM to heal, and use your limited mana to tide you over until the cooldown period ends.
All in all, OFI is better but not always worth the skill investment.
