87 réponses à ce sujet

[GuardianAngel470]

skcih-deraj wrote...

We're all a little bit racist

Ha, ha, ha! "If I were gay" I'd kiss you....

[Golden Owl]

1Minsc1 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

No. She's far too friendly with and genuinely curious about her alien teammates to be prejudiced.

I don´t get the point. Evereyone who´s prejudiced is a racist?

That all depends on who you are prejudiced against....if its against people of another color, or even your own, then its racism....Though I'm going to bite the bullet here and go for it and probably burn for it....I do in fact consider the use of the word 'Racism' as racist in itself, hear me out before chewing me out please...The word Racism implies that there is actually a difference between the races (human races), but the differences are so small and purely cosmetic as to be negligible and a moot point....'Cultralist' I think would be a more appropriate term, as the cultures are generally the defining differences and possibly were it all started to begin with...one culture being viewed as superior to another and as...before the advent of common world travel...skin colors tended to be regionally localized, so too were cultures...I think its a carry over from that....thats my take anyway....Burn me if you will.

Modifié par Golden Owl, 05 mai 2011 - 05:51 .

[PMC65]

1Minsc1 wrote...

PMC65 wrote...

What's amazing is that Ashley has pretty much been gone since ME1 with a brief stint on Horizon, if she survived Virmire .... and I swear there seems to be more threads about her than even Shepard.

For that alone I really like her! She is the Angelina/Britney of the ME world! You go girl!

Ash needs no cosmetic surgery, i think she would be a little insulted.

LOL!!!!!

"Leave Britney Ashley alone!"

[V-rex]

*sigh*

Damn it. Once, just once could I log onto this site without one of these damn theads.

Anyway to give my answer, no, Ashley was never racist. While she voices caution and shows signs of prejudice she also says and does many things to disprove the idea that she's racist.
To name a couple off the top of my head:

- She doesn't like Terra Firma and will respond very harshly towards them if confronted by them on the Citadel

-On Virmire she happily volunteers to assist the Salarian team under the Command of Kirrahe and subsequently works well with them, demonstrating a respect for their tenacity and skills and having no problem about being the lone human in a team of aliens.

-One of the elevator conversations between Ashley and Tali demonstrate that Ashley is sympathetic to the situation the Quarians are in and hopes that if people see Tali help them battling Saren it'll change a few people's minds about the Quarian people.

-When asked about her religion in regards to alien races and diversity of views in the galaxy in general, Ashley maintains that she doesn't think humans have some divine mandate over other races or that they are inherently superior.

-Although she can be mean to Liara from time to time, after Benezia dies Ashley suggests to Shepard to go and comfort Liara, demonstrating a notable degree of sympathy in the process. Similarly if you as a male Shepard pick her over Liara in the notoriously awful 'romance conflict' scene Ashley will admit that she feels sorry for Liara and that her aggression towards Liara was really more to do with her anger with Shepard than anything else.

Ashley isn't perfect and there are some aspects of flaws and prejudices in her personality but she's also no racist either. The fact that she can learn to get over her problems in Mass Effect 1 is a testament to this fact.
As for Mass Effect 2, well, her original writer left and since then she's undergone a kind of change. The new writer obviously not bothering to elaborate on the template of her left over from the first game and her complicated relationship with aliens and chose to simplify and stereotype her negative character traits.
To be honest, at this rate I worry that the third game is going to have her running around in a Klan Hood.

But no for what it's worth, Ashley was never racist and hopefully never will be.

[PMC65]

V-rex wrote...

*sigh*

Damn it. Once, just once could I log onto this site without one of these damn theads.

Anyway to give my answer, no, Ashley was never racist. While she voices caution and shows signs of prejudice she also says and does many things to disprove the idea that she's racist.
To name a couple off the top of my head:

- She doesn't like Terra Firma and will respond very harshly towards them if confronted by them on the Citadel

-On Virmire she happily volunteers to assist the Salarian team under the Command of Kirrahe and subsequently works well with them, demonstrating a respect for their tenacity and skills and having no problem about being the lone human in a team of aliens.

-One of the elevator conversations between Ashley and Tali demonstrate that Ashley is sympathetic to the situation the Quarians are in and hopes that if people see Tali help them battling Saren it'll change a few people's minds about the Quarian people.

-When asked about her religion in regards to alien races and diversity of views in the galaxy in general, Ashley maintains that she doesn't think humans have some divine mandate over other races or that they are inherently superior.

-Although she can be mean to Liara from time to time, after Benezia dies Ashley suggests to Shepard to go and comfort Liara, demonstrating a notable degree of sympathy in the process. Similarly if you as a male Shepard pick her over Liara in the notoriously awful 'romance conflict' scene Ashley will admit that she feels sorry for Liara and that her aggression towards Liara was really more to do with her anger with Shepard than anything else.

Ashley isn't perfect and there are some aspects of flaws and prejudices in her personality but she's also no racist either. The fact that she can learn to get over her problems in Mass Effect 1 is a testament to this fact.
As for Mass Effect 2, well, her original writer left and since then she's undergone a kind of change. The new writer obviously not bothering to elaborate on the template of her left over from the first game and her complicated relationship with aliens and chose to simplify and stereotype her negative character traits.
To be honest, at this rate I worry that the third game is going to have her running around in a Klan Hood.

But no for what it's worth, Ashley was never racist and hopefully never will be.

I absolutely agree with you ... but you know that there is someone in the wings who is going to bring out the dog who humped the bear and the bug-eyed squirrel who stole from the cheetah. Right?  

[Golden Owl]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

The word Racism implies that there is actually a difference between the races (human races), but the differences are so small and purely cosmetic as to be negligible and a moot point....

Some have argued otherwise, much to the detriment of their reputation.

In any case, I suppose racism against aliens would be justified, wouldn't it? They are clearly different from us.

Agreed Saphra

If it was to be dropped in terms of human color reference...it would be a perfect analogy in reference to alien species.

Modifié par Golden Owl, 05 mai 2011 - 06:16 .

[Rusted Cage]

Alright, alright I'm sorry! I just couldn't help myself

[1Minsc1]

Golden Owl wrote...

1Minsc1 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

No. She's far too friendly with and genuinely curious about her alien teammates to be prejudiced.

I don´t get the point. Evereyone who´s prejudiced is a racist?

That all depends on who you are prejudiced against....if its against people of another color, or even your own, then its racism....Though I'm going to bite the bullet here and go for it and probably burn for it....I do in fact consider the use of the word 'Racism' as racist in itself, hear me out before chewing me out please...The word Racism implies that there is actually a difference between the races (human races), but the differences are so small and purely cosmetic as to be negligible and a moot point....'Cultralist' I think would be a more appropriate term, as the cultures are generally the defining differences and possibly were it all started to begin with...one culture being viewed as superior to another and as...before the advent of common world travel...skin colors tended to be regionally localized, so too were cultures...I think its a carry over from that....thats my take anyway....Burn me if you will.

I totally agree. Biology (science) made clear that there are no different human races. We are one specie. (so you could ask if Ash´s a "specieist"). Towards human i also prefer terms like "cultur", "ethnic", because they implie that the differences between "human goups" are mostly social constructs.

[Golden Owl]

Rusted Cage wrote...

Alright, alright I'm sorry! I just couldn't help myself

That was naughty.......

[Golden Owl]

1Minsc1 wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

1Minsc1 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

No. She's far too friendly with and genuinely curious about her alien teammates to be prejudiced.

I don´t get the point. Evereyone who´s prejudiced is a racist?

That all depends on who you are prejudiced against....if its against people of another color, or even your own, then its racism....Though I'm going to bite the bullet here and go for it and probably burn for it....I do in fact consider the use of the word 'Racism' as racist in itself, hear me out before chewing me out please...The word Racism implies that there is actually a difference between the races (human races), but the differences are so small and purely cosmetic as to be negligible and a moot point....'Cultralist' I think would be a more appropriate term, as the cultures are generally the defining differences and possibly were it all started to begin with...one culture being viewed as superior to another and as...before the advent of common world travel...skin colors tended to be regionally localized, so too were cultures...I think its a carry over from that....thats my take anyway....Burn me if you will.

I totally agree. Biology (science) made clear that there are no different human races. We are one specie. (so you could ask if Ash´s a "specieist"). Towards human i also prefer terms like "cultur", "ethnic", because they implie that the differences between "human goups" are mostly social constructs.

I was considering 'Speciest' and went so far as to double check it's meaning in the dictionary...given my foopah with 'Bigot'....'Speciest' was very clear that it only dealt with human perspective on animals, so dropped the idea...Now Minsc, if your going to check my wording up on me, I gotta be real careful......damn it, your keeping me honest......<_<....

[1Minsc1]

@ Golden Owl. I didn´t meant it that way. I tried to figure out the correct words in biologigal-science. All dogs built one specie, devided in different races, all cats built one spezie, devided in different races. All kinds of human beings built one spezie, not devided in different races. So an alien would not belong to another race, but to an other spezie. This does not implie any kind of jugdement.

Modifié par 1Minsc1, 05 mai 2011 - 06:49 .

[Clonedzero]

1Minsc1 wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

1Minsc1 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

No. She's far too friendly with and genuinely curious about her alien teammates to be prejudiced.

I don´t get the point. Evereyone who´s prejudiced is a racist?

That all depends on who you are prejudiced against....if its against people of another color, or even your own, then its racism....Though I'm going to bite the bullet here and go for it and probably burn for it....I do in fact consider the use of the word 'Racism' as racist in itself, hear me out before chewing me out please...The word Racism implies that there is actually a difference between the races (human races), but the differences are so small and purely cosmetic as to be negligible and a moot point....'Cultralist' I think would be a more appropriate term, as the cultures are generally the defining differences and possibly were it all started to begin with...one culture being viewed as superior to another and as...before the advent of common world travel...skin colors tended to be regionally localized, so too were cultures...I think its a carry over from that....thats my take anyway....Burn me if you will.

I totally agree. Biology (science) made clear that there are no different human races. We are one specie. (so you could ask if Ash´s a "specieist"). Towards human i also prefer terms like "cultur", "ethnic", because they implie that the differences between "human goups" are mostly social constructs.

well there are fundemental undenyable differences biologically between different races of people. but that doesnt mean any one is better than the rest. its a super touchy subject and anyone saying that will be labeled as racist and shunned when they were just showing that there are biological differences between races that specifically have to do with appearance. but anyways lol.

back to the main point. no ashley isn't racist at all. i dont even think racist is the proper term for what people are calling her. i think it'd be more like specist or something weird like that lol. anyways. no she isnt.

she's just cautious of them, which makes perfect sense. if you talk to her the first time she's ever met an alien is after joining up with you. her concern about letting aliens on the normandy isnt because their aliens its because they're not the alliance. real world example. we dont show the french or british our plans for our crazy raptor jets do we? dont let them poke around in its systems and designs. absolutely not. thats all.

and her "i cant tell the aliens from the animals" comment, well i can see that being realistic too. at first glance the elcor look like beasts of burden, and the hanar look like weird squishy pets than sentient beings.

basically i'd be more willing to call her ignorant about the aliens than racist. racist implies she hates them when she doesnt. she just doesnt understand them, which is completely reasonable since she's spent her entire life only around humans.

the same could be said about shepard really. i remember talking to Wrex and asking all sorts of questions and i compared the genophage to the first contact war then Wrex explained to me why i was wrong and shepard was like "woah sorry i didnt mean to offend you" and Wrex's reply was PERFECT imo

"your ignorance doesnt offend me shepard"

[Golden Owl]

1Minsc1 wrote...

@ Golden Owl. I didn´t ment it that way. I tried to figure out the correct words in biologigal-science. All dogs built one specie, devided in different races, all cats built one spezie, devided in different races. All kinds of human beings built one spezie, not devided in different races. So an alien would not belong to another race, but to an other spezie. This does not implie any kind of jugdement.

Minsc...all is cool......You have me working on it and thinking, I consider that a good thing...

[TobiTobsen]

Rusted Cage wrote...

Alright, alright I'm sorry! I just couldn't help myself

You cannot back out now! You have to stay right here und watch how a new thread with 500 pages back and forth about Ashelys racism is born!

[Golden Owl]

[quote]Clonedzero wrote...

[quote]1Minsc1 wrote...

[quote]Golden Owl wrote...

[quote]1Minsc1 wrote...

[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...

No. She's far too friendly with and genuinely curious about her alien teammates to be prejudiced. [/quote]

I don´t get the point. Evereyone who´s prejudiced is a racist?

[/quote]

That all depends on who you are prejudiced against....if its against people of another color, or even your own, then its racism....Though I'm going to bite the bullet here and go for it and probably burn for it....I do in fact consider the use of the word 'Racism' as racist in itself, hear me out before chewing me out please...The word Racism implies that there is actually a difference between the races (human races), but the differences are so small and purely cosmetic as to be negligible and a moot point....'Cultralist' I think would be a more appropriate term, as the cultures are generally the defining differences and possibly were it all started to begin with...one culture being viewed as superior to another and as...before the advent of common world travel...skin colors tended to be regionally localized, so too were cultures...I think its a carry over from that....thats my take anyway....Burn me if you will.

[/quote]

I totally agree. Biology (science) made clear that there are no different human races. We are one specie. (so you could ask if Ash´s a "specieist"). Towards human i also prefer terms like "cultur", "ethnic", because they implie that the differences between "human goups" are mostly social constructs.

[/quote]well there are fundemental undenyable differences biologically between different races of people. but that doesnt mean any one is better than the rest. its a super touchy subject and anyone saying that will be labeled as racist and shunned when they were just showing that there are biological differences between races that specifically have to do with appearance. but anyways lol.[/quote]

Yep, always found the biological differences of quite an interest myself, purely out of curiousity....An American Indian friend in fact made me first aware of them, he is a paleo-anthropologist.,,,but yes, is not the place for such discussion

[/quote]back to the main point. no ashley isn't racist at all. i dont even think racist is the proper term for what people are calling her. i think it'd be more like specist or something weird like that lol. anyways. no she isnt.

she's just cautious of them, which makes perfect sense. if you talk to her the first time she's ever met an alien is after joining up with you. her concern about letting aliens on the normandy isnt because their aliens its because they're not the alliance. real world example. we dont show the french or british our plans for our crazy raptor jets do we? dont let them poke around in its systems and designs. absolutely not. thats all.

and her "i cant tell the aliens from the animals" comment, well i can see that being realistic too. at first glance the elcor look like beasts of burden, and the hanar look like weird squishy pets than sentient beings.

basically i'd be more willing to call her ignorant about the aliens than racist. racist implies she hates them when she doesnt. she just doesnt understand them, which is completely reasonable since she's spent her entire life only around humans.

the same could be said about shepard really. i remember talking to Wrex and asking all sorts of questions and i compared the genophage to the first contact war then Wrex explained to me why i was wrong and shepard was like "woah sorry i didnt mean to offend you" and Wrex's reply was PERFECT imo

"your ignorance doesnt offend me shepard"



[/quote]You have good points here Clonedzero...but please do check up on the final pages on the 'Why peopl hate Ash' thread for my refute to your argument...too much there to cut and paste over to here....and would like to hear what you think?

Modifié par Golden Owl, 05 mai 2011 - 07:33 .

[GuardianAngel470]

YES. ASHLEY WILLIAMS IS ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY RACIST.

My racist-o-meter reports her racism power level is over 9000!

Her racism creates a sympathy vacuum so powerful it makes the room explosively decompress when she enters it.

She's so racist that she makes Forrest Gump look like a genius!

Her racism will block out the moon.... While on Pluto..... on the dark side.

She has cookies and russian tea cakes she's so racist.

I am tired and should really go to bed before I enrage the population....

[1Minsc1]

The-Illusive wrote
Why BW says that there is no canon is because all fans would just get
upset and say "Why is Ashley the canon LI and not Tali? Is it b/c she
is an alien? YOU BIOWARE ARE ALL RACISTS!!!"

../../../../images/forum/emoticons/andy.png

So
there is no canon. But Ash is a racist because the Ash-haters wants her
to be a racist. So Bioware is racist. So the hole game is only developt
by and to racist. All our Sheps and weself are racists. Got it, finally.../../../../images/forum/emoticons/w00t.png



taken from the "Canon LI" thread

[jamesp81]

No, she's not a racist.

She's a human nationalist, not a human supremacist. And that's fine, I'm a human nationalist too. I don't got anything against aliens or want to subjugate them, but as an Alliance soldier, my oath is to advance the interests and security of the Alliance and Humanity. Nothing wrong with that.

[hawat333]

Nope, she isn't.
James above described it just fine.

Modifié par hawat333, 05 mai 2011 - 02:43 .

[Dean_the_Young]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

skcih-deraj wrote...

We're all a little bit racist

Ha, ha, ha! "If I were gay" I'd kiss you....

We're all a little happy.

[Rusted Cage]

Have things got so bad that people can openly campaign as anti-Tali? Only joking, I'm all for personal freedom

Folks, let me again apologise for this thread - I don't know what
came over me. I just couldn't resist that "wouldn't it be funny if"
demon that lives inside me.

Please, listen to your inner paragon and forgive a foolish old man :innocent:

Modifié par Rusted Cage, 05 mai 2011 - 03:57 .

[Eradyn]

You know what I was just thinking? I was thinking, "hey, you know what we need? We need another thread about Ashley.  I don't think the ****-ton of threads we have now are enough.  Hell, why stop at a ****-ton, let's just make it one huge-ass wall of Ashley threads where we continuously rehash the same **** over, and over, and over again."

Hey, at least there's one hate thread that opens the "discussion" *cough*flaming*cough* up to ALL the characters. PROGRESS!

[Destroy Raiden_]

She doesn't want to kill aliens because they exist. She's not racist. She has views on aliens because of her relative I think it was her grandfather or something he was blamed for something he didn't do and aliens have been the cause of her family's misery in an indirect way ever sense. She works with them, she talks to them, she tolerates them don't expect her to be like kelly and shack up with every alien she sees just to prove she's fine and dandy with them. Her reasons and reaction is logical unlike that one Turian on the citadel who keeps screaming how humans are racist.

[Rusted Cage]

Golden Owl, I like your post and your point about ignorance. However, is it fair to say Ashley remains ignorant and her viewpoints unchanged depite the passage of two years?

Could it not be argued that while she may have been ignorant at the start of Mass Effect, the elapsed time between attack on the Citadel and the Collector assault on Horizon is ample for her opinions to have changed?

It's easy forgive ignorance once a person has learned the eror of their ways, yet not so easy if somebody makes a conscious decision.

Speaking of forgiveness, please could everyone forgive me for creating this thread? Pretty please? Pretty please with sugar on top?