398 réponses à ce sujet

[Chairon de Celeste]

what makes me scratch my head is that
currently the bioware points box isn't
available at amazon de.

Important in countries like germany where
there's still distrust in creditcards / electronic
payment.

I can live without player char dlc for
a few weeks more or less.
Just saying there maybe low request
for da 2 dlc here, no matter the number of
shipped (not yet sold) copies.

Modifié par Chairon de Celeste, 07 mai 2011 - 11:58 .

[In Exile]

Sabriana wrote...
I don't wish them ill. Not ever. But I want them to turn back. I (personally) want EA to see that a good RPG is worth something. It does have its utterly devoted fans. It will sell well, and the niche is definitely not as small as they make it out to be. I want them to go after new customers, but I want them to hook people into RPGs, as only bioware knows how to make them. /end lament. A good RPG has staying power. It will keep on selling. It's revenue that can be counted on. Oh, I so wish they would see that.

It costs a lot. That's the reality of an RPG. DA:O took 5 years of dev. time. It sold very well, but we don't know what the profit margin is and the actual design principle is not in-line with EA's business model, which is close to annual release (I believe that was their most recent PR annoucement insofar as their executive side is concerned).

DA2 is a bad game because Bioware wanted to make their traditional sort of game on a tighter timeline. That just isn't the product that works.

If DA2 completely cut Act I and a companion, maybe you'd get the same quality within EA's vision. But the kind of sprawling epic people want (re: content) is at odds with the publishing schedule that seems to exist.

The lesson that Bioware (and EA) will take from this won't be to re-create DA:O, because that was never on the table (IMO). The series will need to push closer toward ME2 to be a commercial and critical success, with much smaller areas, narrower content, and a return to the secret warrior order design (Jedi, Spirit Monk, Grey Warden, Spectre).

I'm not hating on Mike Laidlaw. I do think he genuinely believes in his "vision". But he failed to understand the niche. He would be superb for an action RPG. He has the right idea for that genre. His vision is not so much at fault, but it was utterly misplaced on a RPG, and on DA. It was (to me) simply a case of a vision not fitting a genre. He is enthusiastic. He believes in himself. Unfortunately, he was not a good fit for the DA franchise, imo, personally, me, I, no one else, etc.

Bioware doesn't design the sort of RPGs that people want. DA:O was a product of a very different approach (they initially wanted a quasi multiplayer-RPG like NWN was; the origins were starter areas for each of the PCs). It's a game that went through multiple revisions to become what it was and in the meantime Bioware produced:

KoTOR, JE, ME, (and effectively) ME2.

The vision didn't fit the genre, but that's because the company didn't fit the genre anymore.

Modifié par In Exile, 07 mai 2011 - 01:59 .

[Persephone]

neppakyo wrote...

The latest Portal2 user metacritic score is 8.3 PC, 7.7 PS3, and 7.7 xbox360.

DA2 hasn't changed a bit.

4.3 for PC, 3.9 for PS3, and 4.4 for xbox 360

and Portal 2 got a 95 critic score across all 3, while DA2 is still at 84 PC, 82 PS3, 79 xbox 360. Not that it matters about the critic scores, but the user scores are useful once you pass a month and everything has settled down.

Metacritic again?

Really? Yes, the skewed ratings are still the same. Big surprise. Yet on IMDB, Gamespot etc. the user ratings are much higher and less skewed. Strange, huh?

That's why I'll never trust user ratings when it comes to games with an entitled fanbase. Or any user ratings, those bandwagons are sooooooooo nice.....

[Speakeasy13]

Persephone wrote...
Metacritic again?

Really? Yes, the skewed ratings are still the same. Big surprise. Yet on IMDB, Gamespot etc. the user ratings are much higher and less skewed. Strange, huh?

That's why I'll never trust user ratings when it comes to games with an entitled fanbase. Or any user ratings, those bandwagons are sooooooooo nice.....

I don't really have anything against ppl who liked DA2 (I myself am mildly entertained and dissapointed by it at the same time), or you for that matter; but I must ask you Mrs. Hades, you seem like an otherwise decent person, why must you always jump at the 1st chance to defend the game so passionately and put down pretty much any poster or source that disagree with your opinion of the game? Why can't we all just accept DA2 for what it is, and let others continue to draw their own conclusions?

Anyway, I don't see how IMDB is any less skewed than Metracritc, other than you saying so; in fact, even for movies I'd say IMDB score is amongst the worst indicators to judgment a game. Rarely do you see an average product deviates between 5-8 of the 10-point spectrum. What's the point of having 1, 2, 3, 4 and 8, 9s if hardly anyone ever gets that score?

[Persephone]

Speakeasy13 wrote...

Persephone wrote...
Metacritic again?

Really? Yes, the skewed ratings are still the same. Big surprise. Yet on IMDB, Gamespot etc. the user ratings are much higher and less skewed. Strange, huh?

That's why I'll never trust user ratings when it comes to games with an entitled fanbase. Or any user ratings, those bandwagons are sooooooooo nice.....

I don't really have anything against ppl who liked DA2 (I myself am mildly entertained and dissapointed by it at the same time), or you for that matter; but I must ask you Mrs. Hades, you seem like an otherwise decent person, why must you always jump at the 1st chance to defend the game so passionately and put down pretty much any poster or source that disagree with your opinion of the game? Why can't we all just accept DA2 for what it is, and let others continue to draw their own conclusions

I don't have anything against people or sources critical of the game. I simple dislike the "Look at Metacritic" argument. And you're right. Nyargh, I shouldn't post immediately after I got up with a headache. My apologies.

Modifié par Persephone, 07 mai 2011 - 02:40 .

[neppakyo]

I never did say "look! look! its correct!!" I just said the trend of it. After the first rush of dislike and crap for portal 2, it leveled up and gained higher user reviews, while DA2 hasn't changed.

[Persephone]

neppakyo wrote...

I never did say "look! look! its correct!!" I just said the trend of it. After the first rush of dislike and crap for portal 2, it leveled up and gained higher user reviews, while DA2 hasn't changed.

Because it would take one hell of an effort to get even close to evening things out after the rather obvious hate campaigning. I didn't even rate the game there, much less post a review. It would only be rated down anyway.

[neppakyo]

Persephone wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

I never did say "look! look! its correct!!" I just said the trend of it. After the first rush of dislike and crap for portal 2, it leveled up and gained higher user reviews, while DA2 hasn't changed.

Because it would take one hell of an effort to get even close to evening things out after the rather obvious hate campaigning. I didn't even rate the game there, much less post a review. It would only be rated down anyway.

That was one of my points I was trying to make. Not very good, mind you. Pepsi, was just pointing out after the first rush of hate for portal 2 and lousy user scores, it climb up to a decent 7.7. Even for DA2 if more ratings were coming in at 6 or 7, it would still raise the score from 4.4.

Companies do take metacritic into account, it may be skewed, but it was stated they were aiming for a 90+ score, and 5+ million sales.

DA2 did decently, not great, but decently in sales. Not what EA was looking for. Still, roughly 1.3 million sales isn't bad for almost 2 months.

You should know I wouldn't be using things like this just to go "HA HA, DA2 sucks, this is proof*. You know better pepso 

[Persephone]

neppakyo wrote...

Persephone wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

I never did say "look! look! its correct!!" I just said the trend of it. After the first rush of dislike and crap for portal 2, it leveled up and gained higher user reviews, while DA2 hasn't changed.

Because it would take one hell of an effort to get even close to evening things out after the rather obvious hate campaigning. I didn't even rate the game there, much less post a review. It would only be rated down anyway.

DA2 did decently, not great, but decently in sales. Not what EA was looking for. Still, roughly 1.3 million sales isn't bad for almost 2 months.

You should know I wouldn't be using things like this just to go "HA HA, DA2 sucks, this is proof*. You know better pepso 

Good points, Nepp. Have I told ya that you're awesome (Yes, that word!) lately?

[neppakyo]

Persephone wrote...
Good points, Nepp. Have I told ya that you're awesome (Yes, that word!) lately?

Not recently, and despite what mean DA2 defender things they say about you, you're not half bad yourself

You do make awesome points when you're not vocally defending DA2 against people trying to get a rise out of you

But yeah, I admit, you are awesome™ too. (gotta add the tm, cause awesome is trademarked)

Modifié par neppakyo, 07 mai 2011 - 03:29 .

[Persephone]

neppakyo wrote...

Persephone wrote...
Good points, Nepp. Have I told ya that you're awesome (Yes, that word!) lately?

Not recently, and despite what mean DA2 defender things they say about you, you're not half bad yourself

You do make awesome points when you're not vocally defending DA2 against people trying to get a rise out of you

But yeah, I admit, you are awesome™ too. (gotta add the tm, cause awesome is trademarked)

They say mean things about me?  Good, it's all going according to my evil plan!

But seriously: Thanks.

[JoHnDoE14]

Persephone wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

Persephone wrote...
Good points, Nepp. Have I told ya that you're awesome (Yes, that word!) lately?

Not recently, and despite what mean DA2 defender things they say about you, you're not half bad yourself

You do make awesome points when you're not vocally defending DA2 against people trying to get a rise out of you

But yeah, I admit, you are awesome™ too. (gotta add the tm, cause awesome is trademarked)

They say mean things about me?  Good, it's all going according to my evil plan!

But seriously: Thanks.

You practicaly are more than awesome. You are excactly what we need, an open apostate to fight the mage-templar war and beat Mere....Oh wait, I got Ander's lines again!

[Onyx Jaguar]

Back in my day games only had to be successful when they sold like 20,000 copies

Now they have to sell in the millions

And this is why we can't have nice things like, damnit what was I gonna say. Hacx... no, not really. Catacomb? no.... ah yes! no

[aftohsix]

Everwarden wrote...

Not really. Even assuming this means two million copies sold rather than just shipped, sales lose meaning when you cut the price by more than half and have to package in a better game to push the numbers up. 

What's it like living life without a logic center in your brain?

[MorrigansLove]

Bioware will learn from Dragon Age 2 in the end.

[Ariella]

MorrigansLove wrote...

Bioware will learn from Dragon Age 2 in the end.

That's a given. What's not given is that it'll be the exact lessons you want.

[Kilshrek]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Back in my day games only had to be successful when they sold like 20,000 copies

Now they have to sell in the millions

And this is why we can't have nice things like, damnit what was I gonna say. Hacx... no, not really. Catacomb? no.... ah yes! no

Still better than looking for 10 million sales

[Tommy6860]

In Exile wrote...

<snipped>

Bioware doesn't design the sort of RPGs that people want. DA:O was a product of a very different approach (they initially wanted a quasi multiplayer-RPG like NWN was; the origins were starter areas for each of the PCs). It's a game that went through multiple revisions to become what it was and in the meantime Bioware produced:

KoTOR, JE, ME, (and effectively) ME2.

The vision didn't fit the genre, but that's because the company didn't fit the genre anymore.

Just to clarify, KoTOR was released well before the devlopment cycle
began for Origins, if going by the 5 year plan that you stated, "That's the reality of an RPG. DA:O took 5 years of dev. time. ". KoTOR was released on Xbox summer of 2003 and on PC November 2003. KoTOR may be the greatest console RPG ever made, next to Morrowind.

[Everwarden]

Persephone wrote...
That's why I'll never trust user ratings when it comes to games with an entitled fanbase. 

Every fanbase is 'entitled' to a good product if they have to pay money for it. Bioware isn't a charity trying to cure cancer, it's a business selling a product, and a customer has the right to demand quality. 'Entitlement' is just a buzzword fanboys like to throw around because they don't want to acknowledge that their game of choice happens to fail. 

[Sabriana]

Ariella wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Bioware will learn from Dragon Age 2 in the end.

That's a given. What's not given is that it'll be the exact lessons you want.

True. So very true. Personally, I'm leaning toward the pessimistic side. I've already started to look around for dev studios that make companion inclusive RPGs. Obsidian can do it, but they don't always include what I want in companion RPGs, MotB being a note-worthy one. Bioware is the best dev studio for that, imo.

Pessimism sucks.

[Dave of Canada]

Speakeasy13 wrote...

Anyway, I don't see how IMDB is any less skewed than Metracritc

I'm not familiar with IMDB, I could be quite wrong, though do film companies tend to base certain factors on the rating tied with IMDB? Like... if a movie doesn't do well in IMDB, they'd maybe cut funding or something for the next installment? And have people previously raided IMDB critic scores? I've seen it happen but I mean in gigantic numbers, like entire websites devoted to downvoting it.

Not defending or anything, just genuinly curious.

[Merced652]

mythical 4chan raids are srs bzns

Modifié par Merced652, 08 mai 2011 - 07:01 .

[Persephone]

Everwarden wrote...

Persephone wrote...
That's why I'll never trust user ratings when it comes to games with an entitled fanbase. 

Every fanbase is 'entitled' to a good product if they have to pay money for it. Bioware isn't a charity trying to cure cancer, it's a business selling a product, and a customer has the right to demand quality. 'Entitlement' is just a buzzword fanboys like to throw around because they don't want to acknowledge that their game of choice happens to fail. 

Point.....missing it and proving it at the same time.<_<

[Dave of Canada]

Merced652 wrote...

mythical 4chan raids are srs bzns

You can plug your ears and go "la la la" but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

"I HAVE NO POINT IF IT EXISTS, THEREFOR IT DOESN'T."

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 08 mai 2011 - 07:06 .

[Merced652]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

mythical 4chan raids are srs bzns

You can plug your ears and go "la la la" but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

"I HAVE NO POINT IF IT EXISTS, THEREFOR IT DOESN'T."

Does this mean i can accuse any group, like peta, of assassinating kennedy, despite offering no proof and then state that your dismissal is purely denial and that just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it didn't happen? 

Modifié par Merced652, 08 mai 2011 - 07:25 .