398 réponses à ce sujet

[Boiny Bunny]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

I would be equally disagreeing if somebody here was trying to claim that DA:O (a game that I love) had sold 7.2 million copies.

7,200,001

Just kidding. lol

Hehe

[Persephone]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

The IGN article is based on (and provides a link to) the ME2 offer page (now taken down as the offer has ended), which stated clearly 'hit the 1 million mark'.  NOT SOLD.

Hitting the 1 million mark usually means sold. And as I recall, it was confirmed that these 1 million copies were indeed SOLD, not SHIPPED.

You're trying too hard to portray a game you hate as a failure.

Hey, c'mon - I'm happy to admit that I'm disappointed in many aspects of DA2 - but I certainly don't hate it or 'wish' that it was a failure.  I still think it's an OK game - above average for sure.  Just, nowhere near Bioware's usual standards.  Over time the disappointment has settled in and I've become a little more detached about the whole thing.  Everything negative that could be said (and a good deal more) has been said about this game.  Bioware will take from that whatever they will.  I'm happy enough to move forward and talk about other aspects of the game than what I thought it did wrong.

But I've always been this way about facts and figures being quoted by companies and people interpreting them incorrectly, or mis-quoting.  I would be equally disagreeing if somebody here was trying to claim that DA:O (a game that I love) had sold 7.2 million copies!

Gotcha. Thanks for explaining.

[neppakyo]

If you take vgchartz or whatever its called sales figures, it may not be 100% accurate, but it does show trends fine in my opinion. The trend thats showing is DA2 is selling fairly poorly compared to DA:O over the same periods of time. DA2 did very well on the first week, mainly due to pre-orders and first day purchases, the second week wasn't as strong but still pretty decent. Then it went downhill from there.

Poor user reviews and word of mouth. Judging by the trend, DA2 will be hard pressed to reach 3 million. The trend for week 7 sales is lets say roughly 12,000.

Also remember, DA:O PC sales were estimated to be over 2 million alone.

I'm not saying that site is accurate at all! It is a good indicator for the trend of the game selling. Still useful information imho.

[marshalleck]

devSin wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

However on the plus side now that Ray has become a General Manager and Vice President at EA he might be able to soften the blow of such a taint towards such a thing being in that position.

Hasn't one or the other always held that position? I remember one got to be VP and the other didn't, which was weird.

In any case, they held a high-up position in EA proper and apparently haven't been able to do anything so far, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

Have either of you watched an interview with Ray from the last couple years? The dude is weird, unhinged. Like every sentence he pieces together is just all marketing/business gibberish. Personally I think they removed his brain and turned him into a robot, but I can't prove it. Anyways, I wouldn't count on him being able or willing to do anything. I think he may be one of the people pushing this new direction. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 05 mai 2011 - 02:14 .

[Dragoonlordz]

marshalleck wrote...

devSin wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

However on the plus side now that Ray has become a General Manager and Vice President at EA he might be able to soften the blow of such a taint towards such a thing being in that position.

Hasn't one or the other always held that position? I remember one got to be VP and the other didn't, which was weird.

In any case, they held a high-up position in EA proper and apparently haven't been able to do anything so far, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

Have either of you watched an interview with Ray from the last couple years? The dude is weird, unhinged. Like every sentence he pieces together is just all marketing/business gibberish. Personally I think they removed his brain and turned him into a robot, but I can't prove it. Anyways, I wouldn't count on him being able or willing to do anything. I think he may be one of the people pushing this new direction. 

I get the impression hes playing the long game. Sucking up now to be in a better position later. Only then will the larger changes occur in Biowares favor, unless gets corrupted in the sense plays with the big boys too long and forgets where he came from. Or atleast I hope that is his plan because he doesn't seem (to me personally) to have done Bioware any credit as far as specifically DA series and ME3 are concerned regarding the recent EA info release about them and E3 about changes plan to make from EA standpoint.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 05 mai 2011 - 02:19 .

[Tommy6860]

neppakyo wrote...

Also remember, DA:O PC sales were estimated to be over 2 million alone.

.

That's much too high really, especially if you're going to reference VG as the sample. Considering (by VG's own stats) that Origins on just the 360 sold over 2m, would mean that PC sales probably would be lucky to hit 1m.  But since you referenced VG, according to that site, Origins hasn't sold 400K yet.

[devSin]

As was noted exhaustively, they didn't have US sales numbers for Origins at that time.

[neppakyo]

devSin replied faster than I did. And thats why I said estimated, as no one knows the final figures, EA/Bioware probably don't either.

I guess I should of said that part about no US sales numbers for origins.

[Boiny Bunny]

Tommy6860 wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

Also remember, DA:O PC sales were estimated to be over 2 million alone.

.

That's much too high really, especially if you're going to reference VG as the sample. Considering (by VG's own stats) that Origins on just the 360 sold over 2m, would mean that PC sales probably would be lucky to hit 1m.  But since you referenced VG, according to that site, Origins hasn't sold 400K yet.

VGChartz has completely buggered up the DA:O sales.

EA made an official statement some time ago which said something along the lines of:

"DA:O has sold 3.2 million copies across ALL platforms".

Somehow, VGChartz took this to mean 'Across the 360 and PS3 platforms' and immediately adjusted their figures so that 360 sales were 2m and PS3 were 1.2m

Meaning, the PC sold 0 copies. 

I believe Bioware also made an official statement some time ago which said that for Origins, the PC was the best selling platform (it sold more copies individually than the 360 and PS3 did, but not more than the 360 and PS3 combined).

[DSGrant]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

I find the actual subject matter interesting. That being the earnings report. But the report is what it is. Whether it says it sold a dozen copies or 15 million, it doesnt really affect my enjoyment of the game. Any discrepencies is between EA and the IRS.

So why is the hater reactionary response to rush in and discredit? Are they somehow worried that if it sells too many copies they will somehow be proven wrong for disliking the game? I don't see how it changes a thing for them either.

With a little common sense, you should be able to figure this out. It's not rocket science or some psychological mystery to be solved. If we're really honest with ourselves here, the detractors of DA2 (those who were disappointed by the game and it's "new direction") are afraid that if the game does well, it will only reinforce Bioware's design decisions. I believe that's a very valid concern. If Bioware hits big sales numbers with DA2, it will only substantiate design opinions such as those held by Mike Laidlaw. It's not that anyone wants to see Bioware fail - quite the contrary - but those not happy with DA2 do not want to see more of the same in DA3, and sales will determine that direction far more than fan feedback. That's as simply and truthfully as it can be put.

Modifié par DSGrant, 05 mai 2011 - 02:55 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

DAO! A glimpse back at where RPGs came from. Also, the dry, rattling death cry of those trope based games. Good bye! This news shows that DA2 is the way to go. The slant toward game play and story makes the game shorter, tighter, and more fun to kick back and just play.

As for the grumbles about the sequel celebration, you all realize no one bought DA2 because they could get a free two year old game, right? They got the free two year old game to drive up sales on ME3. :-)

Modifié par RinpocheSchnozberry, 05 mai 2011 - 03:19 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

DSGrant wrote...

[snips]... the detractors of DA2 (those who were disappointed by the game and it's "new direction") are afraid that if the game does well, it will only reinforce Bioware's design decisions. I believe that's a very valid concern. If Bioware hits big sales numbers with DA2, it will only substantiate design opinions such as those held by Mike Laidlaw. It's not that anyone wants to see Bioware fail - quite the contrary - but those not happy with DA2 do not want to see more of the same in DA3, and sales will determine that direction far more than fan feedback. That's as simply and truthfully as it can be put.

This is very well said.  As someone who loved DA2's presentation of story, I can certainly say that there does seem to be concrete validation that BioWare's changes are for the better. 

Want DLC, and Want DA3.  :O:O

[neppakyo]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

DAO! A glimpse back at where RPGs came from. Also, the dry, rattling death cry of those trope based game. Good bye! This news show that DA2 is the way to go. The slant toward game play and story makes the game shorter, tighter, and more fun to kick back and just play.
 

SO what you're saying is that you want a Devil may Cry or a Gods of War game? Fine. Go play those and leave the cRPG's for grownups

End of line.

[BanksHector]

neppakyo wrote...
leave the cRPG's for grownups

Statements like this makes me wish DA 2 does way better then DAO just because its funny to read what people like you have to say .

Modifié par BanksHector, 05 mai 2011 - 03:36 .

[neppakyo]

BanksHector wrote...

neppakyo wrote...
leave the cRPG's for grownups

Statements like this makes me wish DA 2 does way better then DAO just because its funny to read what people like you have to say .

Eh, got a bit frustrated. That dude is always calling every rpg game but DA2 "trope" and saying everything sucks but DA2.

Apologies.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

neppakyo wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

DAO! A glimpse back at where RPGs came from. Also, the dry, rattling death cry of those trope based game. Good bye! This news show that DA2 is the way to go. The slant toward game play and story makes the game shorter, tighter, and more fun to kick back and just play.
 

SO what you're saying is that you want a Devil may Cry or a Gods of War game? Fine. Go play those and leave the cRPG's for grownups

End of line.

Here's what I'm saying: DA2 improved how RPGs are presented.  That's going to be more popular because it brings the fun parts out and pushed the tedious parts down.

Here's the thing: Besides DAO, where are all the trope based games--  All the BG rehashes?  There aren't any. Because there is little to no demand (relatively) for games like that.  Games like DA2...  As several people have been crowing with their VGACats.com links "numbers don't lie."  We see now that there is a ton of demand for games like DA2.  :lol:

[BanksHector]

I figured it was somethign like because its very easy to get frustrated with a lot of the people that post on here.

Modifié par BanksHector, 05 mai 2011 - 03:51 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

neppakyo wrote...

Eh, got a bit frustrated. That dude is always calling every rpg game but DA2 "trope" and saying everything sucks but DA2.

Apologies.

Wrong!  DA2 has plenty of problems, which I've described in other threads.  As for tropes, there is no way around it.  DAO was designed to be a "harkening back" to the "golden days" of RPGs.  That means the old ways.  But the old days are over.

[neppakyo]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

Eh, got a bit frustrated. That dude is always calling every rpg game but DA2 "trope" and saying everything sucks but DA2.

Apologies.

Wrong!  DA2 has plenty of problems, which I've described in other threads.  As for tropes, there is no way around it.  DAO was designed to be a "harkening back" to the "golden days" of RPGs.  That means the old ways.  But the old days are over.

Yes so over that DA:O will have outsold DA2, your darling of how RPG's should be. ::rollseyes::

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

neppakyo wrote...

Yes so over that DA:O will have outsold DA2, your darling of how RPG's should be. ::rollseyes::

:o:o  wut?

[Persephone]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

DAO! A glimpse back at where RPGs came from. Also, the dry, rattling death cry of those trope based games. Good bye! This news shows that DA2 is the way to go. The slant toward game play and story makes the game shorter, tighter, and more fun to kick back and just play.

As for the grumbles about the sequel celebration, you all realize no one bought DA2 because they could get a free two year old game, right? They got the free two year old game to drive up sales on ME3. :-)

I wouldn't put it quite so harshly. DAO did VERY well and for good reasons too.

Did it have flaws? Heck, yes. Without modders, it would still have a bunch of game breaking bugs that would drive me up the wall. (I.E. Alistair thinking he is king and acting like it when he clearly IS NOT. As much as I think that him wanting to be a good king & die for his country is an awesome ending, getting that dialogue when I never made him king to begin with was truly meh) And then there are subjective things....like the endless dungeon grinds, lifeless locations (Denerim is a snooze fest without Mods, as is Redcliffe), the bland companion "quests", gift spamming rendering actual companion interactions obsolete, the rushed, buggy ending, completely bugged dialogue files (Leliana being among the worst offenders) etc.

BUT: All these things aside, it was and is an amazing RPG, hell, IMO it's one of the best games of the last decade. I would NOT want to wave its brilliance Goodbye by any means.

DAII did many things better in my opinion but it also introduced new problems (Some of which being utterly unnecessary, I.E. the repeated enviroments) that will need to be adressed in future releases. Build upon the foundation of DAO, take the best out of both games and improve what is already there, IMO DA3 should not be as experiment heavy as DAII was. (Much as I love it) I am in no position to tell Bioware/EA what to do. But PLEASE do not do away with what made DAO great. (I say this as a huge fan of DAII, mind you) 

Am I glad to see DAII weathering the storm valiantly? Oh yes. Because that game gripped me like no other game's story ever did. (We're talking about 20 years of gaming here, I remember when Ascaron Entertainment was still called Ascon!) But in my opinion both games have their moments of greatness and if their virtues could be molded together/improved upon in future releases (DLC, Esxpansion, DA3) I'll be a very happy gal.

Just my opinion, of course.:happy:

Modifié par Persephone, 05 mai 2011 - 04:22 .

[Persephone]

neppakyo wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

Eh, got a bit frustrated. That dude is always calling every rpg game but DA2 "trope" and saying everything sucks but DA2.

Apologies.

Wrong!  DA2 has plenty of problems, which I've described in other threads.  As for tropes, there is no way around it.  DAO was designed to be a "harkening back" to the "golden days" of RPGs.  That means the old ways.  But the old days are over.

Yes so over that DA:O will have outsold DA2, your darling of how RPG's should be. ::rollseyes::

The comparison isn't exactly fair, given that DAO had 18 months and an expansion, DLC , Mods to keep it alive this long. Do I believe DAII could outsell DAO? No. But DAO never had to face the odds DAII did. And given how hard some people are trying to sabotage it, it's doing remarkably well.

[Drasanil]

Persephone wrote...
No. But DAO never had to face the odds DAII did. And given how hard some people are trying to sabotage it, it's doing remarkably well.

Come again? If anything DAII would likely have surpassed DAO had the game not been so poor, given all the publicity and good-will its predecessor generated for the franchise. If anything I'd say it's doing remarkably poorly given it had all the odds stacked in its favour...oh wait I guess you are right, DAO never really had to face the odds that DAII did...  

Modifié par Drasanil, 05 mai 2011 - 04:28 .

[Persephone]

Drasanil wrote...

Persephone wrote...
No. But DAO never had to face the odds DAII did. And given how hard some people are trying to sabotage it, it's doing remarkably well.

Come again? If anything DAII would likely have surpassed DAO had the game not been so poor, given all the publicity and good-will its predecessor generated for the franchise. If anything I'd say it's doing remarkably poorly given it had all the odds stacked in its favour...oh wait I guess you are right, DAO never really had to face the odds that DAII did...  

The game was hated on long before it came out. People openly admitted to hate-campaigning against it on Metacritic to sabotage sales and it shows as plainly as day, since the art of subtlety is not something they are familiar with. (Without ever having played it) And then the bouts of melodrama and exaggerated rage when it came out, closely tied to sky high expectations. There are two sides to every coin. You chose the focus on the shiny one, I chose to focus on the darker one. Each exists.

[Lord_Valandil]

Persephone wrote...

Drasanil wrote...

Persephone wrote...
No. But DAO never had to face the odds DAII did. And given how hard some people are trying to sabotage it, it's doing remarkably well.

Come again? If anything DAII would likely have surpassed DAO had the game not been so poor, given all the publicity and good-will its predecessor generated for the franchise. If anything I'd say it's doing remarkably poorly given it had all the odds stacked in its favour...oh wait I guess you are right, DAO never really had to face the odds that DAII did...  

The game was hated on long before it came out. People openly admitted to hate-campaigning against it on Metacritic to sabotage sales and it shows as plainly as day, since the art of subtlety is not something they are familiar with. (Without ever having played it) And then the bouts of melodrama and exaggerated rage when it came out, closely tied to sky high expectations. There are two sides to every coin. You chose the focus on the shiny one, I chose to focus on the darker one. Each exists.

Every-single-hyped-game gets its amount of hate before coming out.
Halo, for example. Or Call of Duty. "Oh noes, another Halo". "Oh dear, another COD, I'm bored to death!".
And so begins the name-calling, etc.
I had high hopes for DA2 indeed, as I really loved Origins. And I don't consider myself a "hater"...but I truly, truly despised this sequel, for ruining what should have been a better game.

Modifié par Lord_Valandil, 05 mai 2011 - 04:37 .