398 réponses à ce sujet

[tausra]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Sister Helen wrote...

Yawn. Who cares how many were shipped/sold/reported/whatever? I play games to get away from accounting and real life work. I'd rather kill abominations, to be honest.

Bored now.

You have to understand that semantic arguments are all they have left.  They are clinging hard.  :lol:  They're refusing to acknowledge that if EA shipped the game to a retailer... the retailer bought those games.

Fact:  There are no other games like BG/NWN/DAO out in the world.
Fact:  If there's a market for something, someone will make a product to meet that market.
Fact:  There's no market for RPGs presented in the BG/NWN/DAO style, that cannot also be satisfied by presentations like DA2, which is going to appeal to more players.

Definition of subjective: of, relating to, or emanating from a person's emotions, or  prejudices.

Presentations like DA2 belittle the player, reducing user input to button=Awesome. Your choices carry no weight, your actions serve no purpose, your perspective has no influence. While yes, some may find being lead by the nose through an empty world with recycled settings and two deminsional characters fun; there are also people who are coprophiliacs. When we, as a market, lower our standards to the level being sold to us, we have lost all sense of what we used to be. It is true DA2 will have a wider appeal because it is less BG and more Dynasty Warriors, because lets face it, a good portion of the world has the attention span of a gnat.

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
Some individuals are going to demand the old tropes return:  combat always be tactical, loot always by boring, and there be twelve different dialogue choices in each conversation (despite 80% of the players never chosing more than the first five).

Ultimately, the changes in DA2 are generational.  We're going to see if RPGs remain a genre that I'll continue to buy (DA2), or fade into obsucrity (DAO) .

Definition of subjective: of, relating to, or emanating from a person's emotions, or  prejudices.

Do you have a single shred of evidence to support a single claim that you've made? Just because there is a lot of loot, and a lot of variety does not make it boring. It is entirely subjective. Just because you never branched out past the first five choices doesn't make having more options a bad thing, it means more options and more user input; unless of course we get another game where our choices have no meaning. I would love to see the source of your information, as well as your "Facts", because I'm very sure that you sir haven't a leg to stand on.

In parting the definition of subjective: of, relating to, or emanating from a person's emotions, or  prejudices.

Modifié par tausra, 05 mai 2011 - 02:55 .

[JoHnDoE14]

That's very good news! Now, let's talk about story driven DLC...

[Walker White]

The sold-in versus sold-through controversy is legitimate. However, it is definitely looking like DA2 will be the more profitable of the two titles. Even if it sells-through less, it cost significantly less to make. And that cannot be ignored in evaluating a product.

[Catlana]

I think that a lot of folks forget that retailers can return excessive copies. These copies are not classified as "sold in". Also, most retailers prefer to keep the inventory numbers low outside of the holiday season. I just do not see a huge number of copies sitting on shelves for any reason.

[Deviana]

Congrats to Bioware!
As for user reviews - I've stopped caring for those a while back. Just because some Joe or Sue think that the game is the best/worst thing ever, doesn't mean that I will share that opinion.  I've played games that critics were raving about and found myself bored to tears and vice versa.

Now, about that story driven DLC, mmmmm?:innocent:

[neppakyo]

Walker White wrote...

The sold-in versus sold-through controversy is legitimate. However, it is definitely looking like DA2 will be the more profitable of the two titles. Even if it sells-through less, it cost significantly less to make. And that cannot be ignored in evaluating a product.

The sales trend shows that is not the case. Sales have plummeted, and its unlikely DA2 will reach the numbers that DA:O sold.

EDIT, taken from another thread about this;

neppakyo wrote...

Yep. SHIPPED TO RETAILERS Not directly sold to consumers.

This is the point a lot of people aren't getting. While the trend shows DA2 probably has sold at least over a million, nothing to what EA corp speak is saying.

Look at crysis 2. Since the report ended on March 31st, and Crysis 2 was released March 22nd(24th, and 25th in other regions), its highly unlikely that they sold or shipped over 2 million like the report stated for crysis 2. Unless they were talking about crysis2 and Da2 sold in 2 million together.

So before everyone starts congradulating EAWare, wait and see! DA2 probably sold decently, not that great or what EAWare wanted. Remeber, it was stated their goal was for +5 million sales and 90+ metacritic score for DA2.

So we ought to wait  a bit more time to see more sale numbers.

Modifié par neppakyo, 05 mai 2011 - 04:17 .

[Night Prowler76]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Lesdeth wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

You guys are so adorable when you try to discredit an earning report. Sold is sold.

Not necessarily Jack.  If EA stated that they have sold 2 million copies, it isn't the retailers that have sold the product.  Also, if I had to put a hyped product on sale and bundle it to boost numbers, then I would consider that to be a failure.

But to each their own.  I guess DA2 is so popular that it is flying off of the shelves.  Oh wait, nevermind...

Sold is sold. Its an earnings report. Lying about earnings is generally frowned upon by Stockholders, and you know, the IRS.

They didnt say sold, they said sold in, you have to understand that before making assumptions.

[Night Prowler76]

Persephone wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

I'm fairly sure it's standard to see people threatening to meta-critic sabotauge sequels before they come out. There are always some that give it a go. And just as many that spam perfect 10's to counter.

My view is that they usually cancel one another out - leaving the user score on metacritic (especially when the number of reviews is high) reasonably unbiased.

The problem isn't so much troll reviews that give 1/10 or 10/10. It's more people who should have given the game 6/10 but were emotionally involved and so dissapointed that they gave it a 2/10 - which is completely undeserved. Well, something like that anyway!

Good points here. Completely agree. Though I still think that the hate campaigning was and is way more active than the counter luff campaigning.

Havent seen you on here in a while, I missed ya

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

tausra wrote...

Presentations like DA2 belittle the player, reducing user input to button=Awesome.

In DAO, frequently the button = bordem.  If you feel belittled by a game removing boring choices (Short sword +2 STR/DEX, or +1 Dex +1STR = boring, say "Hey" or say "Hey there" ), then you must be entertained by those boring choices.  I don't think there are many other people out there that enjoy that kind of game.

Your choices carry no weight, your actions serve no purpose, your perspective has no influence. While yes, some may find being lead by the nose through an empty world with recycled settings and two deminsional characters fun; there are also people who are coprophiliacs. When we, as a market, lower our standards to the level being sold to us, we have lost all sense of what we used to be. It is true DA2 will have a wider appeal because it is less BG and more Dynasty Warriors, because lets face it, a good portion of the world has the attention span of a gnat.

I support you in whatever you choose to eat.  Go for it!  It's your life.  :wizard:

I agree that we can't lower our standards to tolerate game like BG/NWN/DAO anymore.  The amout of "pre-play"  to "play" was terrible.  There were too many false choices and far too much The Hobbit/Grendal story in them.  I want something new and interesting; so do most people.

Do you have a single shred of evidence to support a single claim that you've made?

Do you have a single shred of evidence to refute it?  I've offered my opinion in most places, beside the facts I put forward that you could not refute.  :)

Just because there is a lot of loot, and a lot of variety does not make it boring. It is entirely subjective.

Bolded the correct part.  To me, lots of loot = BORING.  I want less loot and I want what loot there is to be more important.  Think more ME2 than ME1.

Just because you never branched out past the first five choices doesn't make having more options a bad thing, it means more options and more user input; unless of course we get another game where our choices have no meaning. I would love to see the source of your information, as well as your "Facts", because I'm very sure that you sir haven't a leg to stand on.

False options as padding are false options as padding.  You can reword "Whoa!" a dozen ways... it's always going to sound the same.  How many of the choices you made in BG/DAO/NWN dialogue made a real difference in the game?  Not many.  They were window dressing.  When it came down to the real choices, there were only so many to go from.  Kill the boy-mage, kill his protector.  Romance a character, decline their affections.  I think BioWare should spend less time making sure there are fifteen choices of how to say "Good morning!" and four or five options on the choices that actually matter.

[tausra]

Everything I said is true. I spoke no figures, mentioned no trends, the words may be colorful but there is nothing there that isn't true. They did recycle every "encounter area", the story did lead you by the nose, there wasn't an illusion of choice there just wasn't a choice. A large percentage of the world does Have ADD, so I was not wrong in that assertion. More Options do mean a user has more methods of input, regardless of the outcome. Praising Low Quality means we have lowered our standards. Having more items, with details and uniqueness is only boring if you want it to be, boring/not boring is not an Empirical State; some even find it enjoyable.

You attempt to refute my points, which are fact, with more subjective bluster. State your sources, state some facts, or admit you have only your own opinion to stand on.

[GammaRayJim]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

tausra wrote...

Presentations like DA2 belittle the player, reducing user input to button=Awesome.

In DAO, frequently the button = bordem.  If you feel belittled by a game removing boring choices (Short sword +2 STR/DEX, or +1 Dex +1STR = boring, say "Hey" or say "Hey there" ), then you must be entertained by those boring choices.  I don't think there are many other people out there that enjoy that kind of game.

Your choices carry no weight, your actions serve no purpose, your perspective has no influence. While yes, some may find being lead by the nose through an empty world with recycled settings and two deminsional characters fun; there are also people who are coprophiliacs. When we, as a market, lower our standards to the level being sold to us, we have lost all sense of what we used to be. It is true DA2 will have a wider appeal because it is less BG and more Dynasty Warriors, because lets face it, a good portion of the world has the attention span of a gnat.

I support you in whatever you choose to eat.  Go for it!  It's your life.  :wizard:

I agree that we can't lower our standards to tolerate game like BG/NWN/DAO anymore.  The amout of "pre-play"  to "play" was terrible.  There were too many false choices and far too much The Hobbit/Grendal story in them.  I want something new and interesting; so do most people.

Do you have a single shred of evidence to support a single claim that you've made?

Do you have a single shred of evidence to refute it?  I've offered my opinion in most places, beside the facts I put forward that you could not refute.  :)

Just because there is a lot of loot, and a lot of variety does not make it boring. It is entirely subjective.

Bolded the correct part.  To me, lots of loot = BORING.  I want less loot and I want what loot there is to be more important.  Think more ME2 than ME1.

Just because you never branched out past the first five choices doesn't make having more options a bad thing, it means more options and more user input; unless of course we get another game where our choices have no meaning. I would love to see the source of your information, as well as your "Facts", because I'm very sure that you sir haven't a leg to stand on.

False options as padding are false options as padding.  You can reword "Whoa!" a dozen ways... it's always going to sound the same.  How many of the choices you made in BG/DAO/NWN dialogue made a real difference in the game?  Not many.  They were window dressing.  When it came down to the real choices, there were only so many to go from.  Kill the boy-mage, kill his protector.  Romance a character, decline their affections.  I think BioWare should spend less time making sure there are fifteen choices of how to say "Good morning!" and four or five options on the choices that actually matter.

You should be cautious when using the phrase "so do most people". Because I doubt most people would want you speaking for them...whooops now look what you made me do.... I for one hope DA3 returns to the likes of DA:O and I am speaking only for myself and not all the other who want a return to a real RPG. Not an action game dressed up to look like an RPG.

[erynnar]

Guys don't feed the troll. Seriously.

[fightright2]

erynnar wrote...

Guys don't feed the troll. Seriously.

Don't worry. I'm all out of 'Monster Munch'.

[Rockpopple]

 Did somebody mention panty party? 

... No? Reading through these pages I could have sworn...

Just me then.



Carry on.

[Dragoonlordz]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

I don't think there are many other people out there that enjoy that kind of game.

I have highlighted the only accurate statement in your post.

You may have the attention span of a goldfish and enjoy games which require less effort and thinking but (most people term you used) do not. For someone who constantly says how DA2 was better for him than DAO and that DA2 was what he wanted for the future titles. Yet you claim you hate the superficial aspect of choices with regard to romance and such followed by your desire for choices that actually matter and make a difference. The irony is DA2 choices match your former reference and not the latter, non of the choices matter in DA2 any more than DAO ones in fact I would say they matter less.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 05 mai 2011 - 06:37 .

[Sabriana]

Autolycus wrote...

then you must be entertained by those boring choices. I don't think there are many other people out there that enjoy that kind of game.

And to disprove you again Rinpoche, the sales figures for DA:O would say differently.

Also, they re-released PS:T last year to meet demand.....stay in denial all you want, but you are so far off the mark about what is popular and what isn't that it's actually quite worrying.

OMG!! I found Elvis.

This sentence will look very odd when Auto changes his avi again

PS:T
VtM:B


@ Rocky

You bad person you, I almost had a sneeze go awry. Don't you know how difficult it is to laugh and sneeze at the same time?

I feel like watching DS 9. I wonder why.....

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

GammaRayJim wrote...

You should be cautious when using the phrase "so do most people". Because I doubt most people would want you speaking for them...whooops now look what you made me do.... I for one hope DA3 returns to the likes of DA:O and I am speaking only for myself and not all the other who want a return to a real RPG. Not an action game dressed up to look like an RPG.

Haha!  Yeah, that's a fair point...  But as you can see it's easy to do.  :happy::happy::happy:   In all honesty, I very much think that most people will want something new and interesting.  When presented with yet another game with the exact same mechanics, I think most people will choose something different.  If not radically different, at least different.  I know there's an assumption there, but I am completely comfortable making it.

We've just got totally different views.  If the make DA3 DAO, I'll wait till it hit the bargin bin and I'll mod the crap out of it to blow through the boring parts of the game.  Their job, which is one that's going to be tough, will be to make a game that interests both of us.  :D:D

If anyone can do it though, it'll be them. 

[Sirsmirkalot]

Other articles are talking about 2 million units shipped, not sold.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Autolycus wrote...

then you must be entertained by those boring choices. I don't think there are many other people out there that enjoy that kind of game.

And to disprove you again Rinpoche, the sales figures for DA:O would say differently.

Also, they re-released PS:T last year to meet demand.....stay in denial all you want, but you are so far off the mark about what is popular and what isn't that it's actually quite worrying.

You might want to read the thread again.  ^_^  I'm interested in a link to the rerelease of PS:T though... I wasn't aware of that.  You don't mean GOG or something like that, I hope, because that's nothing more than keeping the games from going into abandonware. 

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

I don't think there are many other people out there that enjoy that kind of game.

I have highlighted the only accurate statement in your post.

You may have the attention span of a goldfish and enjoy games which require less effort and thinking but (most people term you used) do not. For someone who constantly says how DA2 was better for him than DAO and that DA2 was what he wanted for the future titles. Yet you claim you hate the superficial aspect of choices with regard to romance and such followed by your desire for choices that actually matter and make a difference. The irony is DA2 choices match your former reference and not the latter, non of the choices matter in DA2 any more than DAO ones in fact I would say they matter less.

Ad hominem!  You gave up!  I accept your surrender.  :crying:  :lol: 

The superficial parts I don't care about are... Do You Loot--- (DUN DUN DUN) the Rotten Purple Eggplant?!?  3 copper, 2 pounds!  Or Do You Loot---- (DUN DUN DUN) the Broken Crockery!?!?!  2 copper, 1 pounds!?!?  That bores me.  The choices in DA2 were just as interesting as DAO.  Who to romance, how to handle the apprentice, leave a dangerous spirit alive or kill it, help the mages or help the templars, on and on.  They are Traditional RPG Choices (tropes) and that upsets a lot of people.;)

[Curlain]

Sabriana wrote...

Autolycus wrote...

then you must be entertained by those boring choices. I don't think there are many other people out there that enjoy that kind of game.

And to disprove you again Rinpoche, the sales figures for DA:O would say differently.

Also, they re-released PS:T last year to meet demand.....stay in denial all you want, but you are so far off the mark about what is popular and what isn't that it's actually quite worrying.

OMG!! I found Elvis.

This sentence will look very odd when Auto changes his avi again

PS:T
VtM:B


@ Rocky

You bad person you, I almost had a sneeze go awry. Don't you know how difficult it is to laugh and sneeze at the same time?

I feel like watching DS 9. I wonder why.....

Interestingly VtM:B shows how BioWare should have labelled DA2, rather calling it DA:'Something(Exodus, Rise to Power etc)' rather then call it DA2 given how different a game it is to DA:O.  As with VtM:B no one thinks that Bloodlines is the sequel to VtM:Redemption or that either game is going to be the same in gameplay or style despite both being set in the World of Darkness 

[Cutlass Jack]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

They didnt say sold, they said sold in, you have to understand that before making assumptions.

I understand it just fine. Again: the info came an earnings report. Whether the boxes are in the store gathering dust, In consumer homes where they are hugged to sleep at night, burned in effigy, or used to build Box forts doesn't change that base information.

But if images of over a million physical copies of DA2 tucked in the back of an obscure GameStop warehouse like it were the Ark of the Covenant helps you feel better...well don't let me stop you.

[devSin]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

I understand it just fine. Again: the info came an earnings report. Whether the boxes are in the store gathering dust, In consumer homes where they are hugged to sleep at night, burned in effigy, or used to build Box forts doesn't change that base information.

But do you understand that they can be the ones on the hook if those boxes don't sell to actual consumers? That's why the difference matters.

Modifié par devSin, 05 mai 2011 - 07:34 .

[mysamuraiFIGHT]

Shipped units are units sold by Bioware.  Bioware isn't selling games on consignment to retailers.  They HAVE sold 2 million copies.  Now, if retailers can't sell those 2 million copies.  It may affect how many copies of DA3 they buy.  That will be the real test.  Will fans still buy DA3?.