398 réponses à ce sujet

[Cutlass Jack]

devSin wrote...
But do you understand that they can be the ones on the hook if those boxes don't sell to actual consumers? That's why the difference matters.

Someone should really tell the game stores that. I mean I saw a copy of Auto Assault at Gamestop a few weeks ago. And the game servers were shut down like three years ago.

[Iosev]

Don't big retailers usually place orders based on demand? I think it would be incredibly stupid on the retailer's part if they were ordering vast amounts of supply without an idea of how much demand there was for a particular game.

I personally find this whole "shipped versus sold" debate rather silly. 

Modifié par arcelonious, 05 mai 2011 - 07:55 .

[billy the squid]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...

They didnt say sold, they said sold in, you have to understand that before making assumptions.

I understand it just fine. Again: the info came an earnings report. Whether the boxes are in the store gathering dust, In consumer homes where they are hugged to sleep at night, burned in effigy, or used to build Box forts doesn't change that base information.

But if images of over a million physical copies of DA2 tucked in the back of an obscure GameStop warehouse like it were the Ark of the Covenant helps you feel better...well don't let me stop you.

Don't be so silly...

You''ll never be able to build a box fort with DA2 boxes, they're too small. You need to think big!

[mysamuraiFIGHT]

Walker White wrote...

The sold-in versus sold-through controversy is legitimate. However, it is definitely looking like DA2 will be the more profitable of the two titles. Even if it sells-through less, it cost significantly less to make. And that cannot be ignored in evaluating a product.

 
What are you basing this on? The shorter development cycle? There is so much plain ignorance in both pro, and against camps. It’s astonishing. Maybe, someone has figures, but I just don’t care enough to research it. But what was the size of the development team of DAO vs DA2? How much dialogue? Do you count development time of the engine as development of DAO. Wouldn’t DA2 benefit from the engine already being complete? Without having access to numbers only Bio/EA is privy to, none of us can form an intelligent, informed opinion on the profitability of the game. 
 
The only thing I can comment on is my opinion of the game. Which is another discussion. So, wildly speculate away.

[Cutlass Jack]

billy the squid wrote...

Don't be so silly...

You''ll never be able to build a box fort with DA2 boxes, they're too small. You need to think big!

Dream crusher!

You'll rue the day when I complete my scale replica of Kirkwall completely out of DA2 boxes! Yes Rue! I said it.

[devSin]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Someone should really tell the game stores that. I mean I saw a copy of Auto Assault at Gamestop a few weeks ago. And the game servers were shut down like three years ago.

Heh, fair enough. :-)

But don't confuse it with literally taking back unsold stock (but you're correct that I shouldn't be speaking without really knowing the specific distribution setup in this industry). They have to sell through to continue to operate at retail (DD will eventually do away with this nonsense), and sticking the channel with a million unsold copies of a game *is* going to cost you (as said, they're on the hook for it selling to an actual player).

Oh, well. What good would the internet really be without baseless speculation anyway?

Modifié par devSin, 05 mai 2011 - 08:32 .

[GammaRayJim]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

GammaRayJim wrote...

You should be cautious when using the phrase "so do most people". Because I doubt most people would want you speaking for them...whooops now look what you made me do.... I for one hope DA3 returns to the likes of DA:O and I am speaking only for myself and not all the other who want a return to a real RPG. Not an action game dressed up to look like an RPG.

Haha!  Yeah, that's a fair point...  But as you can see it's easy to do.  :happy::happy::happy:   In all honesty, I very much think that most people will want something new and interesting.  When presented with yet another game with the exact same mechanics, I think most people will choose something different.  If not radically different, at least different.  I know there's an assumption there, but I am completely comfortable making it.

We've just got totally different views.  If the make DA3 DAO, I'll wait till it hit the bargin bin and I'll mod the crap out of it to blow through the boring parts of the game.  Their job, which is one that's going to be tough, will be to make a game that interests both of us.  :D:D

If anyone can do it though, it'll be them. 

I am certainly willing to give it a try. I won't pre-order though based on the way they advertised DA:2 I personally felt that I was mislead. I think it's great that you and others enjoyed this game, in a way I am envious because you got the enjoyment out of it that I was hoping for. If they want to turn this in to an action game then just say so cause I love those too. But when I want an RPG that's what I want to play and this did not feel that way to me. GoW followed a trilogy arc and had an interesting but linear story and I am currently play Enslaved: Odyssey to the West so far the story is good but I don't expect to become immersed in an action game like I do in an RPG. And that is where DA:2 missed the mark for me too actiony and not enough immersion.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

GammaRayJim wrote...

And that is where DA:2 missed the mark for me too actiony and not enough immersion.

So...  how is it not immersive?  I mean, is it seeing your NPCs geared, or chosing from huge lists of different dialogue choices?  What anchors you to the game?  It totally boggles me that people can dislike (or be displeased with) DA2 because of all what I see as positive changes.  Not that I think negatively of you, it's just...  *I* don't get it.  :lol:

What two (and only two) things could BioWare add back to DA2 that would make you preorder DA3?

[neppakyo]

You'll need more that two things to bring back to DA2 to consider getting DA3.

Main points being; isometreic camera, and a good story without plot holes, and actual cities filled with NPC's that react.

They failed at the frame narrative, so discard that. I'd prefer they bring back the first person persona type of RP, rather than the ME 3rd person type. I like to shape my character, and have choices that actually matter to the overall plot, and not limit to companions and whether they wear a red cloth on their arm or not.

Thats just the first step in considering to purchase the next DA

Modifié par neppakyo, 05 mai 2011 - 11:39 .

[erynnar]

neppakyo wrote...

You'll need more that two things to bring back to DA2 to consider getting DA3.

Main points being; isometreic camera, and a good story without plot holes, and actual cities filled with NPC's that react.

They failed at the frame narrative, so discard that. I'd prefer they bring back the first person persona type of RP, rather than the ME 3rd person type. I like to shape my character, and have choices that actually matter to the overall plot, and not limit to companions and whether they wear a red cloth on their arm or not.

Thats just the first step in considering to purchase the next DA

This^

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

neppakyo wrote...

You'll need more that two things to bring back to DA2 to consider getting DA3.

Main points being; isometreic camera, and a good story without plot holes, and actual cities filled with NPC's that react.

They failed at the frame narrative, so discard that. I'd prefer they bring back the first person persona type of RP, rather than the ME 3rd person type. I like to shape my character, and have choices that actually matter to the overall plot, and not limit to companions and whether they wear a red cloth on their arm or not.

Thats just the first step in considering to purchase the next DA

Every story has holes, trying to say DAO's story (or BG or NWN or any story) had no holes or eye roll moments doesn't work.  DA2 is no better or worse than any other game.  :)  DAO's cities were =less= lively than DA2 and smaller, and full of as many place holder and copypaste dudes as DAO's or the other old games.  That doesn't make sense either... 

In fact... nothing you ask for is actually a valid change between DAO and DA2.  :o:o  Beyond the camera, and the camera's time is over.  The only possible valid change you want is the customizable companions, but if dressing up your companions make a game an RPG for you, I guess that's your taste.

:lol:  

[craigdolphin]

I have no qualms in congratulating Bioware on achieving 2 million in sales.

Either the VGChartz numbers significantly underestimated the sales for DA2, or else the digital downloads were a much higher percentage of the total than I would have guessed (around 40%). Regardless, DA2 is definitely performing better than the VGChartz numbers would suggest.

That said, none of the foregoing really changes the legitimacy of the comparison of the relative sales estimates from VGCharts between DAO and DA2. Whatever method they use to sample sales, presumably would result in a similar level of bias for the DAO sales too. So, absolute numbers from VGChartz are likely to be low for both titles, but the relative numbers still indicate that DAO sold quite a bit better overall.

So, yeah. Glad the sales are enough to have prompted EA to confirm continuation of the franchise. I just hope that the franchise will still appeal to me in the future, but I'm not feeling optimistic about the latter right now.

[neppakyo]

Actually DA2 is worse than previous games. They aren't as glaring as they are in DA2. Just because consoles may be limited to use of an isometric camera, doesn't mean PC users have to suffer for console limitations.

Uhh, Kirkwall was more empty and dead than any of the cities in DA:O, BG, BG2 probably had a more lively city than both games.

And if you are going to argue, drop the stupid emoticons every third sentence. Makes you look silly, and any valid points you may have (which so far has been not very many) null and void.

So the argument against companion customization is "they chose what they want to wear" and "its for an unique look". Then why are we able to level them up, and chose their skills? Shouldn't they be able to decide which skills they want? So if you get rid of companion armor customization, then get rid of the ability to level them up and choose skills/abilities/spells. Since they can dress themselves, they certainly can choose what path they want

It seems what you fail to grasp about the complaints with not being able to choose armor, is a lot of people like to chose certain pieces for stats, immunities etc. Not everyone agrees with the devs choice in what they are wearing. I think merril looks like a tool in her clothes, carver looks like an idiot in his, and av isn't much better. Fenris looks like cloude from ff7, and I could go on an on, but as someone else said earlier, don't feed the troll.

Ciao.

EDIT: @ craig.

Please read a few pages back. They didn't achieve 2 million sales. Basically its 2 million units shipped/sold to retailers. Learn the difference between sold in and sold.

Modifié par neppakyo, 06 mai 2011 - 02:04 .

[BanksHector]

neppakyo wrote...
So the argument against companion customization is "they chose what they want to wear" and "its for an unique look". Then why are we able to level them up, and chose their skills? Shouldn't they be able to decide which skills they want? So if you get rid of companion armor customization, then get rid of the ability to level them up and choose skills/abilities/spells. Since they can dress themselves, they certainly can choose what path they want

In defense of the "they chose what they want to wear." they do semi decide what skills they want. You cannot put them into different weapons then they want so that cuts out a skill tree, and they are limited in their special role.

So, they are slowly going that way lol. Dragon Age 3 your companions dress themselves, pick their own skills, and you can no longer control them in battle!!

Modifié par BanksHector, 06 mai 2011 - 02:20 .

[Rockpopple]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

You'll need more that two things to bring back to DA2 to consider getting DA3.

Main points being; isometreic camera, and a good story without plot holes, and actual cities filled with NPC's that react.

They failed at the frame narrative, so discard that. I'd prefer they bring back the first person persona type of RP, rather than the ME 3rd person type. I like to shape my character, and have choices that actually matter to the overall plot, and not limit to companions and whether they wear a red cloth on their arm or not.

Thats just the first step in considering to purchase the next DA

Every story has holes, trying to say DAO's story (or BG or NWN or any story) had no holes or eye roll moments doesn't work.  DA2 is no better or worse than any other game.  :)  DAO's cities were =less= lively than DA2 and smaller, and full of as many place holder and copypaste dudes as DAO's or the other old games.  That doesn't make sense either... 

In fact... nothing you ask for is actually a valid change between DAO and DA2.  :o:o  Beyond the camera, and the camera's time is over.  The only possible valid change you want is the customizable companions, but if dressing up your companions make a game an RPG for you, I guess that's your taste.

:lol:  

Nai~led it~

And emoticons are fun. :lol:

[neppakyo]

Rockpopple wrote...

Nai~led it~

And emoticons are fun. :lol:

You're lucky you're funny, and that nailed it comment sounded in my head as Will Ferrel doing a gay voice.

Or I'd beat you to death with a sack full of emoticons 

[Medhia Nox]

Big deal - they tricked me this time.

Given the piece of crap I feel I purchased this go around - I won't be part of the first two months on DA: 3.

[Rockpopple]

neppakyo wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

Nai~led it~

And emoticons are fun. :lol:

You're lucky you're funny, and that nailed it comment sounded in my head as Will Ferrel doing a gay voice.

Or I'd beat you to death with a sack full of emoticons 

Oh my God... that's the tone of voice I was actually using...

Wow. Telepathy!  :):happy::O:O

[neppakyo]

Rockpopple wrote...

neppakyo wrote...


You're lucky you're funny, and that nailed it comment sounded in my head as Will Ferrel doing a gay voice.

Or I'd beat you to death with a sack full of emoticons 

Oh my God... that's the tone of voice I was actually using...

Wow. Telepathy!  :):happy::O:O

Thats.. kind of scary.. o.O

*gathers all of rocks emoticons in a sack and then proceeds to beat him over the head with it until chunks of smiley faces fly everywhere*

[Serpieri Nei]

It seems the people who think having Customizable Companions is to satiate some inner desire to play dress-up.
Simply lack the will to use one's intellect, reasoning, and imagination to create or build upon the tools at ones disposal. Afterall, It does take an understanding of numbers, and how the system operates which is more compelling then the overuse of exploding corpses.

****Implementing Emoticon Shields****

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Modifié par Serpieri Nei, 06 mai 2011 - 02:35 .

[Boiny Bunny]

mysamuraiFIGHT wrote...

Shipped units are units sold by Bioware.  Bioware isn't selling games on consignment to retailers.  They HAVE sold 2 million copies.

Generally speaking, you are wrong.  Do some research before posting something like that.

Modifié par Boiny Bunny, 06 mai 2011 - 02:57 .

[neppakyo]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

mysamuraiFIGHT wrote...

Shipped units are units sold by Bioware.  Bioware isn't selling games on consignment to retailers.  They HAVE sold 2 million copies.

Generally speaking, you are wrong.  Do some research before posting something like that.

Yep. And bioware doesn't sell games. They develope games. EA is the one that publishes games, making deals, selling to retailers, which in turn sell the games to consumers.

@serpie

*shakes fist* Damn your emoticon shield!

[Kilshrek]

Autolycus wrote...

then you must be entertained by those boring choices. I don't think there are many other people out there that enjoy that kind of game.

And to disprove you again Rinpoche, the sales figures for DA:O would say differently.

Also, they re-released PS:T last year to meet demand.....stay in denial all you want, but you are so far off the mark about what is popular and what isn't that it's actually quite worrying.

Which I dutifully rebought. Even though replaying PS:T will take much more time than it once did. Will DA 2 ever be re-released?

[Serpieri Nei]

neppakyo wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

mysamuraiFIGHT wrote...

Shipped units are units sold by Bioware.  Bioware isn't selling games on consignment to retailers.  They HAVE sold 2 million copies.

Generally speaking, you are wrong.  Do some research before posting something like that.

Yep. And bioware doesn't sell games. They develope games. EA is the one that publishes games, making deals, selling to retailers, which in turn sell the games to consumers.

@serpie

*shakes fist* Damn your emoticon shield!

Some people prefer ignorance since it’s a much easier route to take then actually educating oneself.

Anyways, I'll have to get Mordin to work on emoticon cannons, I may need then soon.

Modifié par Serpieri Nei, 06 mai 2011 - 05:07 .

[craigdolphin]

neppakyo wrote...

EDIT: @ craig.

Please read a few pages back. They didn't achieve 2 million sales. Basically its 2 million units shipped/sold to retailers. Learn the difference between sold in and sold.

Erk, I missed seeing the 'in', in the quote and believed the thread title. I really do hate corporate-speak. So I guess it is still possible that the VGChartz numbers are not negatively biased after all. Perhaps having 700,000 copies left stuffing the channel would also explain the rapid discounting going on with the price at some retailers.

In any case, fwiw Bioware, congratz on the 2 million copies shipped milestone and for the executive news the franchise is to be continued.