36 réponses à ce sujet

[muvs32]

I started out my RPG passion with the red box set, then the 2e rulebooks that I purchased from a thrift store for like a quarter each (them were the days) and also learned to handle thAC0 through the SSI gold box P.o.Radiance.

It's my thinking that AD&D started out what some might consider hard as in rules/ease of play. But this is not the case. Certain things, races and classes were meant to be rare and cherished. The rules tried to reflect a fantasy reality, reality being the optimum word. It was far easier to die and that was part of the game. As TSM Dude stated, a player hand much more control over how their PC's acted, who they were, then they had over dice rolls and other game mechanics. It was, I think, the best game offered for RP.

3.&3.5 I learned from NwN's only even tho' I purchased the PBH&DM books. I think the onus shifted quite apparently to character builds rather then character behaviors ext. What is the first question one is usually asked about their PC...what class, race, sadly...what build is your "toon" *frowns* Stats seem to encompass too much time and for my part as a imagination driven player/DM It's hard to equate that to an RP based game. I'd be too busy doing math during a battle to think of anything cool to have my PC say or do (I know, I'm exaggerating a bit for effect)

As a DM especially I tried not to have the dice roll determine the game. Having said that, if I do actually get these knuckle heads of mine together and start a PnP game again I will use a simplified form of 3.5 as I am so second nature with much of it now...and it has a good bit to offer even the old schooler, I am one but haven't broke 40 yet:)

So, that is my take on the systems in question and a simplified response on what I intend to use in my upcoming PnP game. Now on to why so many legacy system users do not recognize 4e as D&D. According to muvs of course!

In a nutshell, there were a lot of different copyrights held by peoples such as Gygax, Arneson, original TSR investors and all those who expanded and created AD&D over the years. It only made sense for WotC to distance themselves from these things to be able to market a financially viable company for others to invest in. Who would not bulk at the amount of possible copyright infringement and allocatable royalties? 4e had to have a different look and feel, they were not making a bigger faster stronger D&D, they were making as much of a completely new game as possible. And for the younger generation that have never heard of the wizard Bergle or even Greyhawk, and never held an actual paper copy of Dragon or Dungeon magazine in their hands how would you market something that does not look and feel and play like the nouveau WoW type MMO's and RPG's?

  There is no reason to debate the merits of 4e against the AD&D or even the D20 system as it is not intended to extend, as were the privious system addtions, but to replace the system intirely. It's in a class of new style RPGs that cater to a different player base. It remains to be seen obviously if 4e is held in such high regard as AD&D 30 years from now. Will mint/near mint books and rare modules and supplements be collector items fetching hundreds of dollars and more at action, all this remains to be seen.

Contempt prior to investigation is one thing but in the case of 4e it just is what it is. D&D in copyrighted name only

Modifié par muvs32, 06 mai 2011 - 02:11 .

[lordofworms]

My first experience was I was about 12 my sister was 15 and she was dating her long time boyfriend of like 7+ years , his name was Jeff Pogi (if you out there man I owe you my imagination and almost everything I am today). I was the typical guy trying to fit in with sports and such but I couldn't throw for sh!t and my catching was worse. I could run real fast and I loved to draw. that was the extent of my skills...lol.
anyways one christmas he gives me 'The Hobbit' by lord tolkien for christmas that year and said read it, when your done reading it, if you liked it I will show you what we all have been playing ..

I ate that book right up...here it was, my imagination come alive, no more stupid sports(no offense sporty types) and dumb boring early 70's life for an awkward 12 year old who could only draw monsters and fantasy shots...here were dwarves, elves (not elfs!!), dragons, oh my god!
I finished it in like 3 days...he came over a few weeks later and told my sister he would be taking me over some friends house and he would be back to take her out later that night.

We ended up at some guys house and I just remember him saying "just sit here and watch and maybe you can play with us next time"
I won't even try and explain everything I felt and saw...I thumbed through their monster manulas, read the player handbook...reached for the DM book and was cast a baleful eye on the all powerful DM himself..."thats not for you just yet" he said in an imposing voice..
I remember the spell of pizza, of sheafs of paper..I remember listening avidly to things like..
" I poke my sword tip into the hole and shake it around...."
and
"I used my spiderclimb ability to scale down the wall to retrieve our fallen friend"
the secret notes passed from DM to that one PC in the group....OMG what does he KNOW!!???!
looking at the realworld clock sadly and wishing you knew that timestop spell yourself

D&D shaped who I am as a person, what I like to read and watch and play...how I 'see' the world..
that girl's charisma is like 2, but I give her intelligence a 15...lol

sadly, I never got to play with Jeff and his friends as graduating, college and relationship issues between my sister and him prevented it..
but I always remembered THAT day.
several years later I teamed up with a friend and started our own campaigns, played with others I met at school, work..but I will always remember that day just watching as being my first time.

[Tarot Redhand]

Played 1e but had monster books stolen. Loved 2e especially spelljammer (still have all the tsr source material) and Boxed sets. They were like having christmas presents when you first opened them. Haven't played anyhting later PnP wise. For what WotC did to FR in 4e is one reason to dislike it, another is they screwed up big time with spells. Own core books for 3e and 4e

TR

[jmlzemaggo]

lordofworms wrote...
... I remember the spell of pizza...

Yeap, so do I! My 1st year at the wizard school of cooking... 
*** Ah, memories... *** 
What was that formula again...

Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 10 mai 2011 - 11:05 .

[Frith5]

My favorite is a mix of 1st edition and 2nd edition. I love 3rd and 3.5, but to me they really began a trend away from imagination and toward machination. See, the problem is that in order to make things in a game meaningful, we need restrictions. But, for a game to appeal to multiple users (ie computer games and MP games), a game company worries about not pleasing every potential customer. So, I admire the race restrictions from AD&D 2nd edition, not because I begrudge someone who wants a halfling paladin, but because in order to have playing a paladin mean more, the class must have some restrictions. When players and DMs were the whole customer base, it was easy enough for a DM to make an exception and allow a halfling paladin. That paladin was awesomely special, and could be treated as such! But, when anyone can simply say they're a paladin class, how special are they? More importantly though how special are ANY paladins?
What this does, this removing of anything resembling a restriction, is take all the individual flavor and 'special-ness' away from a choice. Everything is smoothed out for the player/DM, but smooth is not that exciting to most of us. This is much like point buy or stock stats, or the removal of exceptional strength. Sure, every fighter is gonna try to be as strong as possible. But, with percentile strength, your 18 fighter will be different than my 18 fighter. And no, your halfling thief can't have an 18(97) Str.
I miss restrictions, flavor, difficulty, in my gaming. I know it'll never go back to that, because people whine too much over anything like food/drink requirements, or rest limitations. How on earth would they handle race restrictions that say your dwarf can only reach a certain level?

JFK

[bussinrounds]

As far as the art goes, Loved the art in the 1st edition books. When i was in a bookstore and looked at a 4th edition book, it looked really childish compared to the old classic drawings, imo.

I prefer the 1st and 2nd edition rules also , btw.

[UrkOfGreyhawk]

I still play 1st edition AD&D with some 2nd edition house rules (like non-weapon proficiencies) thrown in, but since you can't legally get a 1st edition PH from Paizo any more I use OSRIC for character development and custom character sheets.

I also play 3.5 from time to time, although I'm migrating that campaign to pathfinder.

4th edition can kiss my butt.

GTG. Work puter is done rebooting.

[TSMDude]

lordofworms wrote...

My first experience was I was about 12 my sister was 15 and she was dating her long time boyfriend of like 7+ years , his name was Jeff Pogi (if you out there man I owe you my imagination and almost everything I am today). I was the typical guy trying to fit in with sports and such but I couldn't throw for sh!t and my catching was worse. I could run real fast and I loved to draw. that was the extent of my skills...lol.
anyways one christmas he gives me 'The Hobbit' by lord tolkien for christmas that year and said read it, when your done reading it, if you liked it I will show you what we all have been playing ..

I ate that book right up...here it was, my imagination come alive, no more stupid sports(no offense sporty types) and dumb boring early 70's life for an awkward 12 year old who could only draw monsters and fantasy shots...here were dwarves, elves (not elfs!!), dragons, oh my god!
I finished it in like 3 days...he came over a few weeks later and told my sister he would be taking me over some friends house and he would be back to take her out later that night.

We ended up at some guys house and I just remember him saying "just sit here and watch and maybe you can play with us next time"
I won't even try and explain everything I felt and saw...I thumbed through their monster manulas, read the player handbook...reached for the DM book and was cast a baleful eye on the all powerful DM himself..."thats not for you just yet" he said in an imposing voice..
I remember the spell of pizza, of sheafs of paper..I remember listening avidly to things like..
" I poke my sword tip into the hole and shake it around...."
and
"I used my spiderclimb ability to scale down the wall to retrieve our fallen friend"
the secret notes passed from DM to that one PC in the group....OMG what does he KNOW!!???!
looking at the realworld clock sadly and wishing you knew that timestop spell yourself

D&D shaped who I am as a person, what I like to read and watch and play...how I 'see' the world..
that girl's charisma is like 2, but I give her intelligence a 15...lol

sadly, I never got to play with Jeff and his friends as graduating, college and relationship issues between my sister and him prevented it..
but I always remembered THAT day.
several years later I teamed up with a friend and started our own campaigns, played with others I met at school, work..but I will always remember that day just watching as being my first time.

I read all this and the first thing I think....your sister is single huh?

[Quillmaster]

My first taste was the blue paperback book that came in the box which included die you had to colour in yourself! I think I was about 17 back then. I then moved on to 2nd Edition AD&D having been lured in with the hardback book cover of the Demon statue having a gem removed from its eye. It's still my favourite, and the ruleset I use to this day if I run a game (although I do often use the Star Wars D6 system for other settings). I liked the fact it made a point of saying the purpose of the game was to have fun, and that the rules were only there as GUIDELINES. After 2nd Edition it just seemed to get too bogged down in statistics for my liking, attracting players who craved high numbers over immersive storyline and use of their own imagination. To me at least, having fewer character classes led to better character development. Fighters, Thieves, Clerics and Wizards, with Assassins, Druids, Bards and Paladins as optional extras was more than enough. As soon as they started introducing more, players lost touch of their soul in favour of their statistics.
I confess money might have been a factor too. I resented spending more money updating when I'd already spent so much on the 5 excellent hardback books.
Of course, that's just my personal opinion, but it still works for me, and my tabletop playing guests are still having immense fun to this very day.

[henesua]

I got into D&D right when the advanced hardback books came out.in the 70's. I was a little tyke at the time (about 7) but convinced the older kid up the block to teach me how to play. As much fun as I had back in those days, the stripped down 3E rules - just the three core books - I think was the best game system put out for the game - as everything fits together sensibly and scales well from 1st to 20th level.

We rarely had to look anything up. The game just flowed on, and I was able to DM an open ended campaign well with it. I pretty much made up the encounters on the spot most of the time, and could throw anything t the players, relying on them to be creative with their solutions. And the rules always had a way to handle the situation. I actually ran with the same group for years and the game evolved from 1st edition to 2nd to 3rd. While we had some amazing adventures in 2nd edition, I didn't shine as a DM until I had the flexible ruleset of 3rd edition. I am a stickler for fairness, and that was hard to pull off without being a control freak in 2nd edition. -- but this might be for the style of play I allowed: occassional conflict and competition between players. After all its all about role play, and I encourage the players to play true to their character.

All that said... I think NWN's application of the rules is an attrocity. 3rd edition is much more flexible and sensible than what was pulled off in NWN. But perhaps that is because they felt a need to adapt it as a computer game.

Modifié par henesua, 04 juin 2011 - 12:36 .

[Failed.Bard]

I haven't even opened a 4th edition book, so I'm not going to touch on that one at all here.

I started with the basic set, back in elementary, but no, I'm not quite that old, AD&D had been out for years already, that's just what my friend had. The Hobbit was the first real book I'd ever read, so when I suddenly had a chance a few years later to act out, I was hooked.
I got the basic set from him a few weeks after he first showed it to me, and the core AD&D books not long after that. Oh, the joys brought on by zealous religious parents forcing my friends to get rid of those "satanic" books.

From the DMs perspective, since I almost always ran the games for the group of friends I played with, I like AD&D right up until they released Unearthed Arcana. I felt that destroyed any semblance of balance in the game to the point that a fresh start with 2nd edition was a good, and in my views running the game, necessary thing.

2nd Edition is still my favourite, though again, some (most) of the the class and race kits were more about ways to make your character "uber" than in fleshing out their histories. My players loved them, but as a DM the only thing I liked was thh fighters handbook, since that had combat options any class could use in it.

3rd edition, and 3.5 fall into the same sort of trap as 2nd edition did. The core books are great, I actually think WotC did a really good job on the 3.5 ruleset, but almost all the expansion books are just power-building nonsense. I actually think, if they'd never come up with the idea of prestige classes and just had those abilities selectable as feat options, 3.5 would be my favourite system.

As it is, I'd have to say, in order:
2nd Edition, minus the kits.
3.5/3.0, even with the PrCs in, but non epic levels. Epic level 3.0/3.5 isn't on my list at all.
AD&D. Sadly, Unearthed Arcana really did ruin the game for me.
Basic/Expert sets. I was never a fan of the Companion set up.

[motorheadabega]

Started out red box/blue box in 1980, moved to 1st edition AD&D almost immediately after. 1st ed was simple and elegant, but the rules were laid out with no regard for ease of lookup. 2nd ed made spell listings alphabetical by Spell name, and with no duplicate entries for class. 3rd ed further streamlined the design so that fewer tables were required and embraced "higher is better" as a design principle. 3.5 allowed them to apply errata and fix bugs.

Give me 3.5 or give me death.
4th ed made all characters the same, but with different keywords to describe their damage. It allows characters to level every so many sessions, regardless of what they actually do IG - kinda like how they teach K-8 these days. To quote one online SRD: "As it stands, the SRD for 4e is just a list of names so I won't be making 4e version of this SRD."