616 réponses à ce sujet

[Terror_K]

Appealing to the masses usually does mean success, yes. Admittedly this wasn't the case with DA2 which kind of backfired for them, but we have to keep in mind that was a far bigger leap from the original than ME2 was from ME1.

[BlackAdder117]

^ What music do ya suggest mate? Kenny G? Bit of 'Hot Chocolate'? Haha!

But seriously, the world's morbid and we need to lighten up and chillax....by listening to Enigma.

[upsettingshorts]

Deus Ex 1 had more shooter and more RPG elements than either ME1 or ME2 and it was an action-RPG.

Tilting at windmills, this thread is.

[man giraffedog000]

I've come to warn you about MAN-GIRAFFE-DOG!! It's the single greatest threat to humanity!! RUN AWAY!!























I'm still more Serial than ever guys.

[Tripedius]

IF EA wants to make more money they should stop making games like ME, Battlefield, DA, Fifa, etc all together since the most money is in ridiculous facebook games without any depth. The producers of ' farmville' make more money than all titles of EA combined. They are also worth more. Its like pumping growth hormons into catlle, you think you can have more meat but in the end you'll only ruin the product, upset consumers and make less money than with the orignal. Was actually thinking of pre-ordering ME3, but won't, have to see first if it's worth it.

[MajesticJazz]

leonia42 wrote...

Ok, it's not as "RPG" as ME1 but neither was ME2 and ME2 was hugely successful so.. they must be doing something right.

Of course ME2 was a hugely success, because it was primarily a shooter game with water downed RPG mechanics and that is the point I'm trying to make. RPG genre at core isn't as profitiable as shooter games and FPS games. That is why EA is wanting Bioware to position ME as not a hybrid Action-RPG game that the series was supposed to be where the game is 50% RPG and 50% Shooter. No, they are transforming ME into a Shooter game, that just happens to have RPG elements....85% Shooter and 15% RPG which ISNT what the ME trilogy was supposed to be about.

Bioware 1998-2007
RIP

[SNascimento]

People should no confuse accessebility with lack of "deph". Civ IV, for exemple, is a game extremely easy to get into but has a very deep gameplay mechanics.
.
ME2 for exemple, it is as deep as ME1, but much more accessible.

[AdmiralCheez]

MajesticJazz wrote...

That is such a naive comment.

no u

Why can't people just accept the fact that EA is wanting ME to appeal largely to shooter fans? They just cannot get around the grips the notion that when publishers say "larger market", what they really mean is the casual shooter market where most of the profit is generated?

This was already stated in the GI article--the combat has to be on par with Gears of War and other shooter games.  ME3 will have better pew pew.  Stop acting so shocked.

Yeah yeah yeah....I know that ME3 is supposed to have better RPG elements than ME2, but what you forget to say is that ME3's RPG elements would be less than ME1 so what does that tell you?

Thank God, the accursed inventory won't be making a return?

Again, just admit it, ME3 might be called an "Action-RPG" but it is clearly evident that it will and is marketed as a Shooter that just happens to have minor RPG elements.

A shooter where I get to create my own character, choose how to improve my skills and weaponry, immerse myself in a fascinating universe with a Bioware-level cast, and drive the plot with decisions that carry over from game to game?

Dude, I would play the sh*t out of that game.  I don't care what genre it is.

[Leonia]

A game company that doesn't adapt to the current market would surely become obsolete, yes?

[GodWood]

Admiral Cheez wrote...
Thank God, the accursed inventory won't be making a return?

Really all it would have took to fix the inventory was to add item stacking (e.g - Mercenary Armour VIII x5)

It's not that hard Bioware.

[XX55XX]

EA is pressuring BioWare to add multiplayer to the game.

Which would be welcome by me.

[AdmiralCheez]

GodWood wrote...

Really all it would have took to fix the inventory was to add item stacking (e.g - Mercenary Armour VIII x5)

It's not that hard Bioware.

That and if they'd ditched the whole Level I-Level X thing...  I hated having to sell/omni-gel everything after two friggin' sidequests...

Frankly, if they took ME2's inventory, added more guns, and did the same with omni-tools, amps, and armor...  I could dig it.  Especially if it had mods.

[OssieZero]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Deus Ex 1 had more shooter and more RPG elements than either ME1 or ME2 and it was an action-RPG.

Tilting at windmills, this thread is.

Deus Ex had a RPG based combat system where aiming was based on the levelling of your character in that particular combat skill. A concept which seems to be offensive to some fans here on the forums.

Deus Ex had an RPG style inventory which you could fill up with all kinds of useless crap if you wanted to. Again, this is something people think is bad game design.

Deus Ex had a wide variety of skills and augmentations, many of which had no combat use. It was impossible to get all of them and they changed the game an enormous amount. This meant that every person could customize their character completely in line with how they wanted to play, and left you curious as to how you would be playing if you chose differently. This is immersion, its something action games don't worry about.

Deus Ex had a deep, involving storyline with many side-elements and branches which could be completely ignored. This is alien to any shooter game I can think of. In fact, the only thing Deus Ex has in common with modern shooting games is that it's first-person and it has guns in it.

Deus Ex is widely considered to be a classic, despite having all these elements which are commonly derided here on the Bioware forums by defenders on ME2. It was an RPG, first and foremost, despite being an FPS. What this news implies is that ME3 will be a shooter, despite being made by a company known for RPGs.

[Nashiktal]

GodWood wrote...

Admiral Cheez wrote...
Thank God, the accursed inventory won't be making a return?

Really all it would have took to fix the inventory was to add item stacking (e.g - Mercenary Armour VIII x5)

It's not that hard Bioware.

No thank you. I would prefer an expanded ME2 armor system rather than ME1 system. 

Lets see... Choose between thirty armor's that are all repaints of the same model.... Or buy bits and pieces of armor that physically change the look, and I get to choose my paintscheme...

Same with weapons. ME2 system, while bare bones, was better to me. All it needs is some expansion to its inventory. 

[Someone With Mass]

MajesticJazz wrote...

Of course ME2 was a hugely success, because it was primarily a shooter game with water downed RPG mechanics and that is the point I'm trying to make. RPG genre at core isn't as profitiable as shooter games and FPS games. That is why EA is wanting Bioware to position ME as not a hybrid Action-RPG game that the series was supposed to be where the game is 50% RPG and 50% Shooter. No, they are transforming ME into a Shooter game, that just happens to have RPG elements....85% Shooter and 15% RPG which ISNT what the ME trilogy was supposed to be about.

Bioware 1998-2007
RIP

http://t0.gstatic.co...MDqHvu35qL2ttGg

Seriously, I've never seen so much butthurt and whining in my life.

[Alienmorph]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

A shooter where I get to create my own character, choose how to improve my skills and weaponry, immerse myself in a fascinating universe with a Bioware-level cast, and drive the plot with decisions that carry over from game to game?

Dude, I would play the sh*t out of that game.  I don't care what genre it is.

There's really nothing else to say. If a game like that isn't enough for someone... well that one can go back to play the D&D based games of BioWara until his/her eyes will melt, but I can't care less of that kind of whines. 

[LostHH]

SNascimento wrote...
ME2 for exemple, it is as deep as ME1, but much more accessible.

HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAA 

ok then

[Leonia]

OssieZero wrote...

Deus Ex is widely considered to be a classic, despite having all these elements which are commonly derided here on the Bioware forums by defenders on ME2. It was an RPG, first and foremost, despite being an FPS. What this news implies is that ME3 will be a shooter, despite being made by a company known for RPGs.

And just how much have we heard about ME3 becoming a pure shooter? We've heard that it has to compete with other shooter games. We've heard more RPG elements are going to be added. It's a bit early to claim it's nothing but a shooter isn't it?

[Whatever42]

Alienmorph wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

A shooter where I get to create my own character, choose how to improve my skills and weaponry, immerse myself in a fascinating universe with a Bioware-level cast, and drive the plot with decisions that carry over from game to game?

Dude, I would play the sh*t out of that game.  I don't care what genre it is.

There's really nothing else to say. If a game like that isn't enough for someone... well that one can go back to play the D&D based games of BioWara until his/her eyes will melt, but I can't care less of that kind of whines. 

Oddly, even though I've played CRPGs since the gold box games, after going back to dragon age after ME2 and having to stop after every combat to pick up piles of junk really annoyed me.

I agree, I don't care what you call it, I like the mechanics of ME2. More options and more customization and more skills would be nice, of course, but its a good system for this game.

[Whatever42]

leonia42 wrote...

OssieZero wrote...

Deus Ex is widely considered to be a classic, despite having all these elements which are commonly derided here on the Bioware forums by defenders on ME2. It was an RPG, first and foremost, despite being an FPS. What this news implies is that ME3 will be a shooter, despite being made by a company known for RPGs.

And just how much have we heard about ME3 becoming a pure shooter? We've heard that it has to compete with other shooter games. We've heard more RPG elements are going to be added. It's a bit early to claim it's nothing but a shooter isn't it?

What's interesting is that both Skyrim and Witcher II are supposed to have trimmed mechanics as well. I haven't been over to their forums. I wonder if the RPG-purists are howling there too?

[Alienmorph]

MajesticJazz wrote...

Of course ME2 was a hugely success, because it was primarily a shooter game with water downed RPG mechanics and that is the point I'm trying to make. RPG genre at core isn't as profitiable as shooter games and FPS games. That is why EA is wanting Bioware to position ME as not a hybrid Action-RPG game that the series was supposed to be where the game is 50% RPG and 50% Shooter. No, they are transforming ME into a Shooter game, that just happens to have RPG elements....85% Shooter and 15% RPG which ISNT what the ME trilogy was supposed to be about.

Bioware 1998-2007
RIP

Ok, so you're just an RPG hipster. Case solved. Go back to play D&D, enjoy thinking you're smarter that who plays Halo only because your game has harder rules and don't bother us.

Modifié par Alienmorph, 05 mai 2011 - 02:29 .

[GodWood]

Nashiktal wrote...
No thank you. I would prefer an expanded ME2 armor system rather than ME1 system. 

Lets see... Choose between thirty armor's that are all repaints of the same model.... Or buy bits and pieces of armor that physically change the look, and I get to choose my paintscheme...

And have them all effectively be the same when in combat?

I love aesthetics as much as the next guy but I'd also like to have noticable gameplay differences between each armour.

[Wulfram]

I'm not really sure this means anything except "We're hoping ME3 will sell more than ME2"

[OssieZero]

leonia42 wrote...

And just how much have we heard about ME3 becoming a pure shooter? We've heard that it has to compete with other shooter games. We've heard more RPG elements are going to be added. It's a bit early to claim it's nothing but a shooter isn't it?

Well we've all played ME2, which is a shooter with RPG elements, and this quote implies that the big push is towards further appealling to the shooter market. For many fans, ME2 was already a step too far in that direction. Taking it any further pretty much means approaching it being purely a shooting game, yeah.

Also, the point I was trying to make is that Deus Ex is conceptually a role-playing game before anything else, so Mass Effect cannot be compared to it. Deus Ex will always be a better RPG than ME because one is an RPG with shooting in it and the other is a shooting game with role-playing in it.

Basically;
Deus Ex = RPG/shooter
ME = Shooter/rpg
ME2 = SHOOTER/rpg

And possibly....ME3 = SHOOTER?

[MajesticJazz]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
This was already stated in the GI article--the combat has to be on par with Gears of War and other shooter games.  ME3 will have better pew pew.  Stop acting so shocked.

So if they are trying to position ME3 to be more on par with GoW and other shooter games, how come they can't position ME3 to be more on par with other core RPG games?------------------------------------------------------

AdmiralCheez wrote...
Thank God, the accursed inventory won't be making a return?

I think we can both agree that ME1's combat sucked. It was annoying and just plain out annoying. However Bioware saw the flaws of the combat and really took time out of the day to make it better for ME2 and by extention, ME3. They didn't just imply drop the combat because it was so bad, they improved upon it. So how come they couldn't keep an inventory for ME2 and just improve on it? Some of the major complaints of the ME1 inventory were:
1. For the console version (Xbox 360) it was frustrating to exit out of as there was no simple button such as "B" to take you out. Instead, you would have to scroll all the way up to the top and re-select your current item for you to be taken out. That was time consuming and frustrating.
Solution: Just add a button to instantly take you out of the screen.
2. We could not see how certain items would upgrade our armour/weapons. Yes, we would have the stats for an item that said +5% Damage and +15% Heat Damping, but those were just raw numbers that didn't really translate to how this would change the landscape of the weapon. I could go more into this but that is for another time. Solution: Just create a system that better explains these stats and how they can affect your weapon positively and negatively. There was a thread about this a long time ago explaining how Bioware could do such thing, but I do not feel like looking for it.
3. There were too many of the similar type of armors, weapons, mods. So you would have a list of 20 Assault Rifles, but most of them are the same in terms of stats so when you really break it down, you only have 3-4 weapon variants instead of 20.
Solution: Bioware should just have more selection of weapons/armor/mods that are not very similar to each other. That way instead of having 20 Assault Rifles where only 2-4 are actually different. They would have 20 ARs where all 20 are actually different. Anyone who has played classic RPGs would know that this is possible. Bioware did this with KOTOR, NWN, and BG.....so why can't they do it with ME?
-----------------------------------------------------------

AdmiralCheez wrote...
A shooter where I get to create my own character, choose how to improve my skills and weaponry, immerse myself in a fascinating universe with a Bioware-level cast, and drive the plot with decisions that carry over from game to game?
Dude, I would play the sh*t out of that game.  I don't care what genre it is.

I do (and I'm not the only one).
Again, I said this the other day in a seperate thread about how I believe it is just a simple case of generation clash. I have been a Bioware fan/gamer since 2002. I come from an era where EVERYTHING Bioware put out was made specifically for RPG fans. They weren't trying to branch out to appeal to the FPS crowd or the 3rd Person Shooter crowd. They knew who their fans were and they developed games for them. They knew that there was more money to be made if they went into the FPS/3rd Person Shooter market, but they denied more profit for more respect from their fans. This is why up until about the EA/Bioware deal, Bioware was literally treated like RPG Gods within the industry. Bioware was to the Western RPG market what SquareSoft was to the JRPG market back in the 1990s. They were untouchable and nobody would DARE to say something negative about Bioware or their games. 
Baulder's Gate, Neverwinter Knights, and KOTOR didn't have divided fanbases like DA2 and ME2 does and that should tell you something. Bioware was the cool and hip independant developer that gave the finger to profit hungry publishers like EA. Now look at them, everything a game releases you have a divided reations. You'll have people (such as yourself) praising the game for its cool combat while you'll have others (such as myself) who scratches their head and wants to know why I am playing a shooter with RPG elements instead of an equally balanced Shooter/RPG.

That throws me back at my initial comment......if Bioware wants the combat/action to be more on par with core shooter games such as Gears of War and Uncharted, then how come they cannot do the same and allow the RPG elements to be more on par with core RPG games?
---------------------------------------------------------

There are 3 ways in which you can look at it:

1. It is a Shooter game AND RPG game in which both mechanics are equally distributed (This is what it was supposed to be like)

2. It is a RPG game and Shooter game in which the RPG elements clearly out-weigh the shooter elements (look at Deus Ex 1)

3. It is a Shooter game and RPG game in which the Shooter elements clearly out-weigh the RPG elements (What ME2/ME3 is)

The ME trilogy was supposed to be like option #1 but it is now becoming more like option #3. Why?

Modifié par MajesticJazz, 05 mai 2011 - 02:34 .