86 réponses à ce sujet

[CroGamer002]

Skip to 4:00 and watch to the end.

Modifié par Mesina2, 05 mai 2011 - 06:58 .

[Rockworm503]

Yup its really going beyond nasty now.
I used to go to Steam forums but you can't go anywhere without elitism showing its ugly face. Go to Portal 2 forums on steam.com and you'll see exactly what I mean.
You can't go 2 minutes without someone bashing someone else because their a console kiddie. Apparently thats an accepted term. I compare it to racism and I get mocked for it but honestly... whats the difference?

Modifié par Rockworm503, 05 mai 2011 - 07:50 .

[naughty99]

Mesina2 wrote...



Skip to 4:00 and watch to the end.

OMG thank you for wasting 10 minutes of my life that I wish I could get back.

Really wish I had noticed the part where you said to skip to 4:00.

The entire video was a boring "expose" by one youtube comment troll who is in some kind of troll battle with another troll. Why should I care if the target of his rant has multiple youtube accounts or complains about the name "JRPGs".

It just seems like a really personal disagreement between two trolls. I guess the guy who made the video is mad because the other guy got him banned from some forum. I could care less. 

I don't see what the video has to do with any sort of PC elitism. In fact it looked like the troll who made the video was complaining that the other troll was some kind of "PS3 elitist"?

Personally, I don't happen to own any consoles, so my only option is to game on my laptop. I'm aware there are some idiots hate on people who own consoles, or people who own a different brand of console, etc. I don't see why it should matter if some people are morons. Attempting to "unite" these people is futile and serves no purpose.

Modifié par naughty99, 05 mai 2011 - 03:14 .

[Deathwurm]

Whole subject is ridiculous to me. That's not directed at you, Mesina2...I mean the fact that it exists at all.
But, there is Elitism in every Group no matter how small or large...so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

[Rockworm503]

Filament wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

Yup its really going beyond nasty now.
I used to go to Steam forums but you can't go anywhere without elitism showing its ugly face. Go to Portal 2 forums on steam.com and you'll see exactly what I mean.
You can't go 2 minutes without someone bashing someone else because their a console kiddie. Apparently thats an accepted term. I compare it to racism and I get mocked for it but honestly... whats the difference?

...Never heard of anyone getting lynched for playing Xbox instead of PC.

Did I compare it to extreme racism?

[Drake Sigar]

This isn’t a big problem in the gaming community, it’s a big problem in our society. You’re either a bleeding heart liberal, or a racist conservative. Those in-between are ostracized by both groups. The News focuses on celebrity breakdowns, and with the countless reality TV shows they create an environment where the general populace can constantly feel good about themselves. Religion has been twisted into a badge of honour. People say they support the troops and then quiet their change whilst running past homeless veterans in the streets. They buy recyclable shopping bags and then load up the food in their Hummer, just for the privilege of feeling superior.  They adopt a picture on their Facebook account and say “do this fight cancer!” rather than actually making a donation.

Horrible video by the way.

Modifié par Drake Sigar, 05 mai 2011 - 11:06 .

[Moondoggie]

Humans in general have a pack mentality and want to be a part of something. It's why we support certain sports teams and mock fans of other teams and of course it extends to gaming platforms. Was the same when i was a kid at school you have the Sega and Nintendo kids and they all claimed there's was the better system. Nowadays it's a bit more open ended with three consoles out there full of squabbling fans and the PC gamers have their own factions ranging from the regular gamer who play anything to the super elitist who only plays certain games and mocks people for liking any other genre. And you get those PC gamers who feel that they are somehow superior because they game on a PC they mock consoles and act like developers owe them something so they constantly whine when a game is released on consoles and they champion any game that is a PC exclusive as "the best game ever" even if it is not.

[KenKenpachi]

Moondoggie wrote...

Humans in general have a pack mentality and want to be a part of something. It's why we support certain sports teams and mock fans of other teams and of course it extends to gaming platforms. Was the same when i was a kid at school you have the Sega and Nintendo kids and they all claimed there's was the better system. Nowadays it's a bit more open ended with three consoles out there full of squabbling fans and the PC gamers have their own factions ranging from the regular gamer who play anything to the super elitist who only plays certain games and mocks people for liking any other genre. And you get those PC gamers who feel that they are somehow superior because they game on a PC they mock consoles and act like developers owe them something so they constantly whine when a game is released on consoles and they champion any game that is a PC exclusive as "the best game ever" even if it is not.

Like the Witcher 2? << >>

But yeah this system war **** has gone on forver, what I find hillarious is you can find people who like the games and the IP's across the full spectrum, but will go on a anti-sony/nintendo rant. And Pack Mentality has held true, I've always been more or a loner or leader of my own pack and mock the vast majority of them lulz, more so sports fans << >>.

Filament wrote...
...Never heard of anyone getting lynched for playing Xbox instead of PC.

This guy that lived across the street from me once stabed his teacher with a needle for taking his gameboy away. That count?

[Shaewaros]

This is a very interesting topic, thanks for posting it here Mesina2.

Moondoggie wrote...

Humans in general have a pack mentality and want to be a part of something. It's why we support certain sports teams and mock fans of other teams and of course it extends to gaming platforms.

It's true that we human beings perceive ourselves as a part of various social groups that separate us from others and that give us our individual identities.

On the contrary it's also worth noticing that we can't really immediately judge every individual opinion on cultural phenomena just to be a cause of this pack behaviour. Human behaviour is a product of genetical, social and environmental factors, as well as hermeneutical factors - not just the social ones. These same rules apply with our behaviour toward gaming: we do not only play console or PC games because of our social nature - we all have our individual reasons to behave the way we do. Therefore it's not logical to categorize opinions of an individual to represent values of a certain social group or vice versa. It's useful for us to do this because human brain always categorizes phenomenon to be able to make sense of the world, but this doesn't mean that categorization is in itself a priori "the right thing to do".

What do I mean by this? Quite simply put, it's not reasonable to claim that for example individuals, who post their opinions on this forum about Bioware games, have a certain doctrine that they blindly follow - that they're either pro-PC or pro-console, for instance, and that this causes them to behave like gregarious animals whenever their pack identity is threatened.

As for the question of elitism, I generally see it more as separate conflicts centered around a specific topic, where rational arguments can be made for and against a certain statement. However these situations tend to get "colored" with discussion about these social group identities (like PC gamers versus console gamers) - at that point there's no room for rational discussion anymore. People should learn to take part to these discussions in their context and not bring in this discussion about hypothetical group identities.

In the context of this kind of separate, specific topic, we often find elitism, but this elitism is in my opinion centered around individual experiences. So elitism in this context is for instance about one's age & gaming experience, not about ideas of hypothetical group identities. It's more logical to call someone a noob than a "typical console gamer", since it's a fact that someone can be more skilled in a game than someone else. Therefore, the use of terms such as noob or boon is also elitism, but a different kind of elitism than the elitism that rises from the idea of social group identities.

And yea, elitism is a problem.

Modifié par Shaewaros, 05 mai 2011 - 03:07 .

[Elhanan]

After 35+ yrs of playing RPG's, I have seen elitism and prejudice in many forms:

* PnP vs other forms of games
* Fantasy vs Sci-Fi (or other genre)
* Religion vs gaming
* Pre-Epic vs Epic
* RPG vs Action & Adventure
* console vs PC
Etc.

Folks will always find someone with opposing opinions, and many on both sides will fight fervently for those opinions with both eyes shut. And elitists simply hold that their opinion is more valuable than the other.

IMO, of course.

[Blze001]

That is all....

[Chromie]

Being apart of the Glorious PC gaming master race. Who cares. No one forces you to go on forums. Chat on Xbox live or PSN. It's optional.

IImo.

[naughty99]

Shaewaros wrote...

It's true that we human beings perceive ourselves as a part of various social groups that separate us from others and that give us our individual identities.

I think it also has to do with post-purchase rationalization, which is an observed part of the psychological process many consumers go through after purchasing something.

For certain types of products, especially big ticket items or recreational entertainment purchases, consumers go through a post purchase evaluation process and tend to wind up either rationalizing or regretting their purchase.

In either case they often have an urge to share this within their social network, and either recommend or dissuade others from purchasing the same product.

Modifié par naughty99, 05 mai 2011 - 03:26 .

[Monica83]

Elitism? Nah..

Bioware make elitism for first... They always told us to don't be elitist.. But they are the first that streamlize and dumb down games for console user... Sometimes i laught on this complete lack of coherence.. They talk about elitism but they are the first that ruins sequel because thinks console user must press button to be happy... Just look the Dragon age 2 marketing campaign... When ladiaws says: "when you press a button something awesome is going to happen... button .. awesome.." if i was a console owner i was offended by be considered so much stupid... But hey.. We are pc owners so we are elitist!!! *facepalm*

[Shaewaros]

naughty99 wrote...

Shaewaros wrote...

It's true that we human beings perceive ourselves as a part of various social groups that separate us from others and that give us our individual identities.

I think it also has to do with post-purchase rationalization, which is an observed part of the psychological process many consumers go through after purchasing something.

For certain types of products, especially big ticket items or recreational entertainment purchases, consumers go through a post purchase evaluation process and tend to wind up either rationalizing or regretting their purchase.

In either case they often have an urge to share this within their social network, and either recommend or dissuade others from purchasing the same product.

That's certainly a good point, although I mainly commented on our general need as human beings to belong to social groups, not just about our behaviour as consumers. Or did you mean that people, who post their comments on forums because of their ambivalentic post-purchase trauma, try to form themselves a forum identity by grouping up with people with similar tastes? I understand that people want to share their opinions within their social network but what does this have to do with my comment about people wanting to belong to social groups? Or was your post just a more general comment on the topic of elitism/socialization?

Monica83 wrote...
Just look the Dragon age 2 marketing campaign... When ladiaws says: "when you press a button something awesome is going to happen... button .. awesome.."

I also saw that interview - after watching it through I decided that I'll buy DA2... when hell freezes over!

Modifié par Shaewaros, 05 mai 2011 - 04:31 .

[naughty99]

Shaewaros wrote...

That's certainly a good point, although I mainly commented on our general need as human beings to belong to social groups, not just about our behaviour as consumers. Or did you mean that people, who post their comments on forums because of their ambivalentic post-purchase trauma, try to form themselves a forum identity by grouping up with people with similar tastes? I understand that people want to share their opinions within their social network but what does this have to do with my comment about people wanting to belong to social groups? Or was your post just a more general comment on the topic of elitism/socialization?

I was referring to one of the factors that drives people to become PC/Xbox/PS3 "fanboys" and post comments on forums.

And I agree that this behavior meets certain social needs as well. 

[Shaewaros]

naughty99 wrote...

Shaewaros wrote...

That's certainly a good point, although I mainly commented on our general need as human beings to belong to social groups, not just about our behaviour as consumers. Or did you mean that people, who post their comments on forums because of their ambivalentic post-purchase trauma, try to form themselves a forum identity by grouping up with people with similar tastes? I understand that people want to share their opinions within their social network but what does this have to do with my comment about people wanting to belong to social groups? Or was your post just a more general comment on the topic of elitism/socialization?

I was referring to one of the factors that drives people to become PC/Xbox/PS3 "fanboys" and post comments on forums.

And I agree that this behavior meets certain social needs as well. 

OK, thanks for the clarification.

Modifié par Shaewaros, 05 mai 2011 - 04:36 .

[DinoCrisisFan]

Rockworm503 wrote...
Did I compare it to extreme racism?

Yes?

[KenKenpachi]

Monica83 wrote...

Elitism? Nah..

Bioware make elitism for first... They always told us to don't be elitist.. But they are the first that streamlize and dumb down games for console user... Sometimes i laught on this complete lack of coherence.. They talk about elitism but they are the first that ruins sequel because thinks console user must press button to be happy... Just look the Dragon age 2 marketing campaign... When ladiaws says: "when you press a button something awesome is going to happen... button .. awesome.." if i was a console owner i was offended by be considered so much stupid... But hey.. We are pc owners so we are elitist!!! *facepalm*

You do know you just godwin yourself right?

So yeah...you are a PC Elitist...opps. I mean you just did call all console gamers idiots. I'm guessing your not a native english speaker, so I won't point out the irony in your post.

naughty99 wrote...

I think it also has to do with post-purchase rationalization, which is an observed part of the psychological process many consumers go through after purchasing something.

For certain types of products, especially big ticket items or recreational entertainment purchases, consumers go through a post purchase evaluation process and tend to wind up either rationalizing or regretting their purchase.

In either case they often have an urge to share this within their social network, and either recommend or dissuade others from purchasing the same product.

Can't speak for others, but I don't really, I buy something as I like it or think I might, then if its crap I get rid of it, or I burn it. Or if its something that fails or was broke I tend to threaten who sold it to me, or steal a replacement, or plot to burn said place of work to the ground.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 05 mai 2011 - 04:51 .

[naughty99]

Monica83 wrote...

they are the first that ruins sequel because thinks console user must press button to be happy... Just look the Dragon age 2 marketing campaign... When ladiaws says: "when you press a button something awesome is going to happen... button .. awesome.." if i was a console owner i was offended by be considered so much stupid... But hey.. We are pc owners so we are elitist!!! *facepalm*

I'm a PC owner and personally, overall, I liked DA2.

I like the improved attack animations and yes, when I press a button on my keyboard, "something awesome happens" - nothing wrong with that IMO.  

Despite the fancy animations, DA2 combat still wound up being far more tactical and requiring more critical thinking than DAO combat. Nightmare mode in DAO was a joke because you could spam cheap healing potions to get through anything. Nightmare mode in DA2 is pretty challenging, and much more balanced, at least for me. 

It's a quote that has been taken out of context and turned into some sort of bizarre rallying cry against the evils of streamlining RPGs for a wider audience.

There were several things I seriously disliked about DA2, but the attack animations was not one of them. 

Modifié par naughty99, 05 mai 2011 - 04:57 .

[Blood-Lord Thanatos]

KenKenpachi wrote...

Monica83 wrote...

Elitism? Nah..

Bioware make elitism for first... They always told us to don't be elitist.. But they are the first that streamlize and dumb down games for console user... Sometimes i laught on this complete lack of coherence.. They talk about elitism but they are the first that ruins sequel because thinks console user must press button to be happy... Just look the Dragon age 2 marketing campaign... When ladiaws says: "when you press a button something awesome is going to happen... button .. awesome.." if i was a console owner i was offended by be considered so much stupid... But hey.. We are pc owners so we are elitist!!! *facepalm*

You do know you just godwin yourself right?

So yeah...you are a PC Elitist...opps.

naughty99 wrote...

I think it also has to do with post-purchase rationalization, which is an observed part of the psychological process many consumers go through after purchasing something.

For certain types of products, especially big ticket items or recreational entertainment purchases, consumers go through a post purchase evaluation process and tend to wind up either rationalizing or regretting their purchase.

In either case they often have an urge to share this within their social network, and either recommend or dissuade others from purchasing the same product.

Can't speak for others, but I don't really, I buy something as I like it or think I might, then if its crap I get rid of it, or I burn it. Or if its something that fails or was broke I tend to threaten who sold it to me, or steal a replacement, or plot to burn said place of work to the ground.

Fear is a powerful motivation for redeeming incompetence. hehehehehehhehehe! I think you may be aiming too low, think bigger!

[ianmcdonald]

I didn't watch the video but I will say that elitism is a problem most places.

Edit: Watching now. He's got some good points.

Modifié par ianmcdonald, 05 mai 2011 - 05:18 .