I picked up this game a few weeks ago, and I'm struggling.
In my first attempt that I just ditched I played through 20% of the game, but fights became unreasonably tough. I think I had it set up wrong. My character was a City Elf Rogue, and others in my team were Alistair, Morrigan and Wynne. Sometimes I used the dog, but I didn't take any of the Rogue characters on offer as I was a Rogue myself.
I hadn't managed to get a specialization for my character. I saw books for Shapeshifting and Templar, but I was holding out on something to unlock the Ranger skills, which didn't happen.
I'm now starting a second attempt at the game, and changing things a bit. No City Elf Rogue, because I'm assuming the Elf bonus points in Willpower and Magic are lost on a Rogue. Instead I'm going with a Dwarf Warrior, that way the racial bonus will pay off for sure. And I'm not gonna take Alistair along this time, but the plan is to go with Sten. Alistair starts at a lowly level 4. Of course I'm stuck with him in the early stages, but the ploy is to only use him to soften up enemies and as a decoy, trying to reserve the kills - and XP! - for myself.
Then if Sten comes along, I've still got this powerful ally in melee, and should be stronger myself.
Is it okay to ditch Alistair at this early stage, or is there some catch that I don't know about yet?
Then the rest of the team... Morrigan is great, I could imagine keeping her for her character only, but she's got good spells as well, so I'll take her. But I found Wynne also terribly useful with her healing spells, and she can learn a few offensive spells as well. My problem is then that I'm thinking I'm missing a Rogue. Sten, Morrigan, Wynne and my Dwarf already makes 4, so no space for Leliane or Sevran. I'm afraid not spotting traps could be a problem... BOOMMM!!! There goes half of my team.
Could I sometimes alternate the team or is that really bad? Or could some other team member learn Rogue skills perhaps?
Then a seperate question about the Rogue: I read in a strategy guide that a Rogue shouldn't invest in strength, as it relies purely on cunning for its melee attacks. I'm confused about this. I understand a Rogue relies on cunning for its specialist attacks, but would this go for every attack a Rogue makes, also the run of the mill whacks?
Some advice for a newbie?
Débuté par
KillingMoon
, mai 05 2011 03:37
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#2
Posté 05 mai 2011 - 03:52
lionalio87
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You should check for more information in dragonage.wikia.com, which is very useful to begin to read!
Here is some my advice: as you are playing a rogue, the best way for you is to focus on the attributes which rogues benefit the most, namely Dexterity and Cunning.
For the Skills and Talents, If you are going to use your rogue to detect traps and open lock, upgrade the deft-hand (lockpicking) skill on whatever rogue in your party, which has the image of the key. To unlock every lock in the game or detect every trap, you should maximize this skill and have at least 30 cunning.
For the damage output for the rogue, I recommend you to upgrade the Lethality, which allow your damage is based on cunning, not strength, since the rogue has many cunning, this will increase their damage enormously. Note that if you are not already upgrade this, your damage is based on strength!!!
For which is best for rogue, elf, dwarf or human, I recommend you to play Human, because their base Dexterity and Cunning is the most.
Good luck in advance the game
Here is some my advice: as you are playing a rogue, the best way for you is to focus on the attributes which rogues benefit the most, namely Dexterity and Cunning.
For the Skills and Talents, If you are going to use your rogue to detect traps and open lock, upgrade the deft-hand (lockpicking) skill on whatever rogue in your party, which has the image of the key. To unlock every lock in the game or detect every trap, you should maximize this skill and have at least 30 cunning.
For the damage output for the rogue, I recommend you to upgrade the Lethality, which allow your damage is based on cunning, not strength, since the rogue has many cunning, this will increase their damage enormously. Note that if you are not already upgrade this, your damage is based on strength!!!
For which is best for rogue, elf, dwarf or human, I recommend you to play Human, because their base Dexterity and Cunning is the most.
Good luck in advance the game
#3
Posté 05 mai 2011 - 04:15
mousestalker
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Right now you're facing the learning curve, which can be pretty steep. It's possible to finish the game with every possible team mate combination. I've done it on Nightmare with three rogues and Morrigan shapeshifted as a spider.
Initial stats matter less than you think. Don't worry too much about a race's bonuses (the exception is dwarven magical resistance). Play a race, story and role you enjoy.
Take a long look at the wiki. The money making guide in the wiki is well worth reading. In general, buy books and bags. Once a specialty is unlocked for one character, it is unlocked for all your characters. So if you're planning on multiple plays, it's well worth it to buy/learn them when you encounter them.
Warrior is a great class to start with as it is the simplest of the classes to learn. If you pay attention to what your companions are doing, you will learn a great deal about how to play the other two classes. Specialize each companion and yourself to fit a role. Leliana is set up to be a ranged rogue with thievery skills. She is your best bet for unlocking stuff. Zevran is set up to be a backstabbing assassin. He is your best bet for scouting. Alistair is a classic meat shield. Dog, Sten and Oghren are added melee damage. Wynne is the healer. Morrigan is ranged damage. Shale is a jack of all trades that can be set up to do very many things.
The simplest way to play is to set your party up for a meat shield (Alistair, Shale or your warden), a rogue (either Zevran for melee or Leliana for ranged), added melee (Dog, Shale, Sten or Oghren) and either additional damage or a healer.
I rarely use Wynne. There are poultices a plenty in game.
One major note. Coercion opens up a great many choices in game. Your character is the only one that can use coercion. You will probably want to max it out.
Initial stats matter less than you think. Don't worry too much about a race's bonuses (the exception is dwarven magical resistance). Play a race, story and role you enjoy.
Take a long look at the wiki. The money making guide in the wiki is well worth reading. In general, buy books and bags. Once a specialty is unlocked for one character, it is unlocked for all your characters. So if you're planning on multiple plays, it's well worth it to buy/learn them when you encounter them.
Warrior is a great class to start with as it is the simplest of the classes to learn. If you pay attention to what your companions are doing, you will learn a great deal about how to play the other two classes. Specialize each companion and yourself to fit a role. Leliana is set up to be a ranged rogue with thievery skills. She is your best bet for unlocking stuff. Zevran is set up to be a backstabbing assassin. He is your best bet for scouting. Alistair is a classic meat shield. Dog, Sten and Oghren are added melee damage. Wynne is the healer. Morrigan is ranged damage. Shale is a jack of all trades that can be set up to do very many things.
The simplest way to play is to set your party up for a meat shield (Alistair, Shale or your warden), a rogue (either Zevran for melee or Leliana for ranged), added melee (Dog, Shale, Sten or Oghren) and either additional damage or a healer.
I rarely use Wynne. There are poultices a plenty in game.
One major note. Coercion opens up a great many choices in game. Your character is the only one that can use coercion. You will probably want to max it out.
#4
Posté 05 mai 2011 - 04:20
hoorayforicecream
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Just wanted to throw in one thing. Make sure that you spend time setting up tactics for your characters. One easy one to help survive is If HP < 25%, use a poultice. You'll need to figure out what works for you, but setting up the tactics so your teammates will live without micromanagement is a very important hurdle to leap.
#5
Posté 05 mai 2011 - 10:54
KillingMoon
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Thanks for the responses! It looks like there are a lot of valuable pointers in there.
Silly enough, the in-game description tells this and I had read it as well, but it had slipped my mind again!
I hadn't looked at the wiki much yet. That's a strange mechanism, that unlocking a specialty for one character would work in another playthrough as well! Wolves carrying health poultices, a character in your camp recommending you to download extra content... this game has some weird features!
I was probably too cautious with my money, and missing some opportunities to earn it, yeah.
I hadn't delved in the nitty-gritty of that yet, just set up a few basic things. Having Wynne cast group heal when an ally's health dropped below 25% was something that I had put in, put apart from that I had just set everyone to 'hold', so that they didn't run around without me ordering them to do so. I had become reasonably happy managing them by hand.
I had actually grown a bit sceptical about automated instructions, like how do you tell a party member to get out of the way when Morrigan casts one of her freeze spells? I'll look into that again, though, it does seem a fairly robust management tool.
Hmm... BBCode works a bit different in this forum from what I'm used to. Sorry if those quotes look a bit messy.
For the damage output for the rogue, I recommend you to upgrade the
Lethality, which allow your damage is based on cunning, not strength,
since the rogue has many cunning, this will increase their damage
enormously. Note that if you are not already upgrade this, your damage
is based on strength!!!
Silly enough, the in-game description tells this and I had read it as well, but it had slipped my mind again!
Take a long look at the wiki. The money making guide in the wiki is well
worth reading. In general, buy books and bags. Once a specialty is
unlocked for one character, it is unlocked for all your characters. So
if you're planning on multiple plays, it's well worth it to buy/learn
them when you encounter them.
I hadn't looked at the wiki much yet. That's a strange mechanism, that unlocking a specialty for one character would work in another playthrough as well! Wolves carrying health poultices, a character in your camp recommending you to download extra content... this game has some weird features!
I was probably too cautious with my money, and missing some opportunities to earn it, yeah.
Just wanted to throw in one thing. Make sure that you spend time setting
up tactics for your characters. One easy one to help survive is If HP
< 25%, use a poultice. You'll need to figure out what works for you,
but setting up the tactics so your teammates will live without
micromanagement is a very important hurdle to leap.
I hadn't delved in the nitty-gritty of that yet, just set up a few basic things. Having Wynne cast group heal when an ally's health dropped below 25% was something that I had put in, put apart from that I had just set everyone to 'hold', so that they didn't run around without me ordering them to do so. I had become reasonably happy managing them by hand.
I had actually grown a bit sceptical about automated instructions, like how do you tell a party member to get out of the way when Morrigan casts one of her freeze spells? I'll look into that again, though, it does seem a fairly robust management tool.
Hmm... BBCode works a bit different in this forum from what I'm used to. Sorry if those quotes look a bit messy.
Modifié par KillingMoon, 05 mai 2011 - 11:01 .
#6
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 11:57
digi_ronin
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Another remark about specialization books:
If you are tight on gold, remember that you don't need to pay for them.
+ Save before buying one of them.
+ Then buy it.
+ Then leave the Merchant Screen.
+ Wait for the popup "You have unlocked the XYZ Specialization!"
+ Load the save.
You will have the specialization unlocked, but you will have your gold back. Yes, it's borderline exploitation, but I really never saw the point why on one playthrough (especially during the first, of all things!) you are supposed to spend more gold than on later ones.
Weird mechanic indeed.
If you are tight on gold, remember that you don't need to pay for them.
+ Save before buying one of them.
+ Then buy it.
+ Then leave the Merchant Screen.
+ Wait for the popup "You have unlocked the XYZ Specialization!"
+ Load the save.
You will have the specialization unlocked, but you will have your gold back. Yes, it's borderline exploitation, but I really never saw the point why on one playthrough (especially during the first, of all things!) you are supposed to spend more gold than on later ones.
Weird mechanic indeed.
Modifié par digi_ronin, 06 mai 2011 - 12:02 .
#7
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 03:39
Arthur Cousland
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My advice is to check http://dragonage.wik...on_Age:_Origins if you get stuck on quests, or just want to look something up, whether it's an item, class build question and etc.
I always have a rogue on hand, as I can't stand to pass up a locked chest, even though it's usually just junk inside. I also like being able to disarm any traps that I come across. You also get xp from picking locks+disarming traps, which does add up after a while. On that note, I'd have Leliana or Zevran on hand at all times and perhaps consider dropping Sten or Morrigan from your current party. I'd keep Wynne as her healing spells are extremely handy to have, especially during your first few playthroughs of the game at least. However, consider adjusting her tactics to use heal at 75% health and regeneration at 90%, rather than the defaults, which have her waiting until the last minute to cast heal spells. If you find Wynne running out of mana quickly too often, have her stick with just healing spells. I also like to have her cast force field on anyone under 50% health. Force field will save people from death on many occasions.
I always have a rogue on hand, as I can't stand to pass up a locked chest, even though it's usually just junk inside. I also like being able to disarm any traps that I come across. You also get xp from picking locks+disarming traps, which does add up after a while. On that note, I'd have Leliana or Zevran on hand at all times and perhaps consider dropping Sten or Morrigan from your current party. I'd keep Wynne as her healing spells are extremely handy to have, especially during your first few playthroughs of the game at least. However, consider adjusting her tactics to use heal at 75% health and regeneration at 90%, rather than the defaults, which have her waiting until the last minute to cast heal spells. If you find Wynne running out of mana quickly too often, have her stick with just healing spells. I also like to have her cast force field on anyone under 50% health. Force field will save people from death on many occasions.
Modifié par Arthur Cousland, 06 mai 2011 - 03:40 .
#8
Posté 09 mai 2011 - 12:00
KillingMoon
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I decided to go with mousestalker's advice, and go with a team I like. So I didn't go with the dwarf, but with an elf-boy as my main character. A warrior. I probably like rogues better, but a warrior is more straight forward.
I guess it was just a general lack of experience that was my problem in my first attempt. There were a lot of things I missed in my first attempt. I hadn't seen the cages in Ostagar, hadn't bartered with the kennel owner, didn't notice that the Tower Mage has a spell that adds fire damage to your weapens, and so forth...
I hadn't neglected coercion and lock pick for my character, rather the contrary; it were combat skills I missed. The elf-boy I've got now cannot open chests or dismantle traps, but he's got a lot more whack in him. A good hit of his did 50 damage in the Korcari Wilds where my previous rogue would do some 30. And he's half a level higher, but that's probably because of things that I missed in my first attempt.
But now that I've arrived in Lotharing I'll probably go with Leliana and not Sten, because I like to have a rogue. I think the team will become Leliana, Morrigan, Wynne and my elf-warrior, although that seems a little weak in melee. But I think I would miss Wynne's healing spells if I didn't take her along. Plenty of times I've seen my units lying incapacitated over the floor after some flame blast or pull spell, not even able to take a healing potion, while some boss is already preparing the next big whack... That's on normal difficulty, I don't even want to imagine how you can stand up to that on nightmare!
It's certainly an interesting spell.
I guess it was just a general lack of experience that was my problem in my first attempt. There were a lot of things I missed in my first attempt. I hadn't seen the cages in Ostagar, hadn't bartered with the kennel owner, didn't notice that the Tower Mage has a spell that adds fire damage to your weapens, and so forth...
I hadn't neglected coercion and lock pick for my character, rather the contrary; it were combat skills I missed. The elf-boy I've got now cannot open chests or dismantle traps, but he's got a lot more whack in him. A good hit of his did 50 damage in the Korcari Wilds where my previous rogue would do some 30. And he's half a level higher, but that's probably because of things that I missed in my first attempt.
But now that I've arrived in Lotharing I'll probably go with Leliana and not Sten, because I like to have a rogue. I think the team will become Leliana, Morrigan, Wynne and my elf-warrior, although that seems a little weak in melee. But I think I would miss Wynne's healing spells if I didn't take her along. Plenty of times I've seen my units lying incapacitated over the floor after some flame blast or pull spell, not even able to take a healing potion, while some boss is already preparing the next big whack... That's on normal difficulty, I don't even want to imagine how you can stand up to that on nightmare!
That's interesting! I used force field the opposite way. If a new hostile group came along, I cast it on their boss, so I could concentrate on taking out the critter first. It didn't always work, sometimes the boss got free too soon, but it did help to make fights more manageable.Arthur Cousland wrote...
I also like to... cast force field on anyone under 50% health. Force field will save people from death on many occasions.
It's certainly an interesting spell.
#9
Posté 09 mai 2011 - 12:48
Eber
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KillingMoon wrote...
the ploy is to only use him to soften up enemies and as a decoy, trying to reserve the kills - and XP! - for myself.
Then if Sten comes along, I've still got this powerful ally in melee, and should be stronger myself.
No need. Everyone in the party gets experience when something dies w/e. Additionally when you complete a main quest every companion will level up to match your level.
#10
Posté 09 mai 2011 - 07:03
Ferretinabun
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Yes, the game can be daunting at first, and rogue is more difficult to master than warrior or mage. Both Morrigan and Wynne are excellent companions throughout, though I have to say I find Leliana a little underpowered early in the game. She gets good later, but if you're still having trouble and find you need some more melee strength, she's the one I'd recommend you swap out - for the time being at least.
#11
Posté 09 mai 2011 - 07:43
digi_ronin
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A general remark about having / not having a rogue in the party:
I mostly went without a rogue, but then re-entered each area afterwards with a rogue to pick all the leftover chests.
Because of that, I got a pretty good impression what locked chests contain (and what not). And after a while I clearly recognized that even though there are plenty of locked chests around, I could only remember ~3 locked chests in the whole game that contained something I needed / really used (in any way) later. The whole rest was just vendor trash. Which is nice for your gold balance, but doesn't make much of a difference otherwise.
Which I found a bit disappointing. I had really hoped for more good equipment or even optional plot items in locked chests. From a neutral point of view, bringing a rogue is really fully optional.
Casting on a party member usually makes only little sense.
My point being:
1 - one casts FF on a party member so that he doesn't die.
2 - you don't want the party member to die because otherwise he can't help you in that battle
3 - ...but with FF going, he can't help you anyway, so it's not much different from him being dead.
Granted, it makes sense in nightmare, because damage comes in so fast there that you can't react otherwise (FF, then potions). But all in all, it's much better to take the enemy out of the fight rather than the ally.
That being said, although I used FF a lot in the first half of the game, I later noticed that some other shutdown skills are better and switched to those then.
Glyph of Paralysis for example is totally awesome and beats FF in several ways:
- it's a tier1-skill, so every mage can easily grab it (tier 2 for FF)
- it can be cast without line of sight (FF is via line of sight if I remember correctly)
- it has a "floor trap" mechanic as a script, which makes it very hard to resist
- it can be cast either on an enemy or on the floor making it more versatile
- it has a lower casting cost
- most of all: unlike FF, it leaves the enemy open to damage
The only advantage of FF is that it has a really long duration (roughly twice that og the glyph), so I still use it for boss battles. In normal battles I have entirely stopped using it. Paralysis and Petrify are also nice in standard situations, but take longer to cast.
-digiro
I mostly went without a rogue, but then re-entered each area afterwards with a rogue to pick all the leftover chests.
Because of that, I got a pretty good impression what locked chests contain (and what not). And after a while I clearly recognized that even though there are plenty of locked chests around, I could only remember ~3 locked chests in the whole game that contained something I needed / really used (in any way) later. The whole rest was just vendor trash. Which is nice for your gold balance, but doesn't make much of a difference otherwise.
Which I found a bit disappointing. I had really hoped for more good equipment or even optional plot items in locked chests. From a neutral point of view, bringing a rogue is really fully optional.
I second this.That's interesting! I used force field the opposite way. If a new
hostile group came along, I cast it on their boss, so I could
concentrate on taking out the critter first. It didn't always work,
sometimes the boss got free too soon, but it did help to make fights
more manageable.
Casting on a party member usually makes only little sense.
My point being:
1 - one casts FF on a party member so that he doesn't die.
2 - you don't want the party member to die because otherwise he can't help you in that battle
3 - ...but with FF going, he can't help you anyway, so it's not much different from him being dead.
Granted, it makes sense in nightmare, because damage comes in so fast there that you can't react otherwise (FF, then potions). But all in all, it's much better to take the enemy out of the fight rather than the ally.
That being said, although I used FF a lot in the first half of the game, I later noticed that some other shutdown skills are better and switched to those then.
Glyph of Paralysis for example is totally awesome and beats FF in several ways:
- it's a tier1-skill, so every mage can easily grab it (tier 2 for FF)
- it can be cast without line of sight (FF is via line of sight if I remember correctly)
- it has a "floor trap" mechanic as a script, which makes it very hard to resist
- it can be cast either on an enemy or on the floor making it more versatile
- it has a lower casting cost
- most of all: unlike FF, it leaves the enemy open to damage
The only advantage of FF is that it has a really long duration (roughly twice that og the glyph), so I still use it for boss battles. In normal battles I have entirely stopped using it. Paralysis and Petrify are also nice in standard situations, but take longer to cast.
-digiro
#12
Posté 09 mai 2011 - 07:29
Ptraci
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How does one get Wynne? I have talked to her but never recruited her...
#13
Posté 09 mai 2011 - 08:10
LT123
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Ptraci wrote...
How does one get Wynne? I have talked to her but never recruited her...
You can talk to her but not recruit her at Ostagar. You'll run into her in a required story quest later-can't miss her.
#14
Posté 24 mai 2011 - 11:10
KillingMoon
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I always wanted to update this thread, but I haven't gone all that much further in my second attempt; still only on 25% of the game - yeah, I can spend months on finishing a single game!
I'm certainly getting the hang of it, though.
The Dragon Age Wiki I found a mixed blessing. There's an awful lot in it, but it's unwieldy and full of spoilerish information. Not everything that's in there I want to know yet. The money making guide I found indeed useful. Also this page about experience: dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Experience.
For help with quests I normally go here: www.gamebanshee.com/dragonageorigins/walkthrough.php. All info is very well organized there.
As far as the team goes, I believe I won't include Wynne after all. I've become familiar with Sten and Leliana, so I'll try to go with them. No healer.
Leliana is indeed weak at the beginning. I've developed her as a dual weapon specialist. That takes a bit of time, because she's just got bow skills to start with. But now, at level 11, she's become truly awesome. It's stamina that is her main problem now. Maybe I need to get her some mushrooms. She's got that Song of Valour, but that probably just helps the others, doesn't it?
Sometimes I still find a fight too difficult, but looking at it carefully, it's just those orange revenants that give me bother. They seem almost immune to magic and their armour rating must be awesome, as I can hardly get a dent in them. I've been avoiding them for a while now, it would be satisfying to bring one down eventually.
I'm certainly getting the hang of it, though.
The Dragon Age Wiki I found a mixed blessing. There's an awful lot in it, but it's unwieldy and full of spoilerish information. Not everything that's in there I want to know yet. The money making guide I found indeed useful. Also this page about experience: dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Experience.
For help with quests I normally go here: www.gamebanshee.com/dragonageorigins/walkthrough.php. All info is very well organized there.
As far as the team goes, I believe I won't include Wynne after all. I've become familiar with Sten and Leliana, so I'll try to go with them. No healer.
Leliana is indeed weak at the beginning. I've developed her as a dual weapon specialist. That takes a bit of time, because she's just got bow skills to start with. But now, at level 11, she's become truly awesome. It's stamina that is her main problem now. Maybe I need to get her some mushrooms. She's got that Song of Valour, but that probably just helps the others, doesn't it?
Sometimes I still find a fight too difficult, but looking at it carefully, it's just those orange revenants that give me bother. They seem almost immune to magic and their armour rating must be awesome, as I can hardly get a dent in them. I've been avoiding them for a while now, it would be satisfying to bring one down eventually.
#15
Posté 24 mai 2011 - 12:19
sami jo
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There is a really steep learning curve for the system. My first playthrough I was getting my butt handed to me regularly with the difficulty set to easy. A dozen playthroughs later and I could solo with any class on nightmare if I wanted to (but wouldn't because the NPCs are what makes the game so awesome). There are some great threads on effective builds for each class on the forums.
