617 réponses à ce sujet

[Nohvarr]

TheConfidenceMan wrote...

bald man in a boat wrote...

Electronics-> Overload

Decryption-> Sabotage

Both combat related. Next?

He wanted examples of abilites that were not exclusively related to combat. Those are two.

Perhaps I misspoke but I wanted abilities that were purely non-combat related. Because aside from Charm, I haven't seen any. My point being that all your skill points went into abilities designed for the combat portion of the game. Some could be used for other things (and even then the number is low) if you consider repair the make while in a combat zone, non-combat related, and that stealing weapons/information from hostile servers/lockers is also not related to combat.

Why not just take out the mini game then?

Because they didn't want to bar people from upgrades/money/loot, just because they didn't have a character that could hack the system. In ME 2 they wanted your choice of who to bring to be dictated by the mission parameters and your own personal preference, the cost being that some people do better in certain situations than do others. However you are not punished for your decision by not being able to acquire the schematics to that shiney new gun, as long as you are willing to play and beat the mini-game.

[bald man in a boat]

TheConfidenceMan wrote...

He wanted examples of abilites that were not exclusively related to combat. Those are two.

Oh right, they open containers so you can get stuff for combat.

[Someone With Mass]

Besides, I could just take Tali with me, boost those stats to max and be just fine with leaving out points for other skills, since the weapon stats also played a role, so all I had to do was get the Colossus armor and those Spectre weapons (which I could pretty early), and then I didn't have to worry about stats and such for the rest of the game. And when it's that easy to bypass, what's the point of having it at all?

[Ahglock]

TheConfidenceMan wrote...

bald man in a boat wrote...

Electronics-> Overload

Decryption-> Sabotage

Both combat related. Next?

 

He wanted examples of abilites that were not exclusively related to combat. Those are two.

Exactly.  There is nothing wrong with tieing combat abilities to non-combat ones.  Heck from the begining of RPGs that has been true. Hide in shadows and move silently let the thief sneak past guards, follow people etc. but it also lets you set up a backstab.  In 4e D&D charisma is now tied to your will save stat and also is the bonus for a wide variety of attacks.  But it is still a functioning non combat stat as well, you can use it to charm people etc.  

The issue for many is now there is nothing but the combat part. And hey since it is a hybrid the detail that it uses gears of wars mechanics is fine and dandy.  Take the stats out to some degree there.  Since combat powers are integrated into combat and they are improving those aspects, that is a great thing to hear.  But what about being better at hacking doors so maybe alternate routes are avaialble to tech classes, or large objects that can be moved with biotics, or blown up with explosives that only combat classes might have.  Where are the things not directly tied to combat even if they also have combat effects as their primary purpose or on the side.  

[Da Mecca]

Nohvarr wrote...


Because they didn't want to bar people from upgrades/money/loot, just because they didn't have a character that could hack the system. In ME 2 they wanted your choice of who to bring to be dictated by the mission parameters and your own personal preference, the cost being that some people do better in certain situations than do others. However you are not punished for your decision by not being able to acquire the schematics to that shiney new gun, as long as you are willing to play and beat the mini-game.

I don't know, seems like the mini game is there for no reason, your going to get the stuff any way, why bog you down with an unnecessary mini game?

[Nohvarr]

Ahglock wrote...

The issue for many is now there is nothing but the combat part. And hey since it is a hybrid the detail that it uses gears of wars mechanics is fine and dandy.  Take the stats out to some degree there.  Since combat powers are integrated into combat and they are improving those aspects, that is a great thing to hear.  But what about being better at hacking doors so maybe alternate routes are avaialble to tech classes, or large objects that can be moved with biotics, or blown up with explosives that only combat classes might have.  Where are the things not directly tied to combat even if they also have combat effects as their primary purpose or on the side.  

They weren't in the first two games, why would they be missed now?

[wolfennights]

http://www.neoseeker...elements-stats/

Not sure if it's been posted before, but here. Bioware is not "dumbing down" anything.

[Nohvarr]

I don't know, seems like the mini game is there for no reason, your going to get the stuff any way, why bog you down with an unnecessary mini game?

Because they thought the mini-game would be more fun than just dumping points into a talent.

Modifié par Nohvarr, 07 mai 2011 - 05:38 .

[Ahglock]

Da Mecca wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...


Because they didn't want to bar people from upgrades/money/loot, just because they didn't have a character that could hack the system. In ME 2 they wanted your choice of who to bring to be dictated by the mission parameters and your own personal preference, the cost being that some people do better in certain situations than do others. However you are not punished for your decision by not being able to acquire the schematics to that shiney new gun, as long as you are willing to play and beat the mini-game.

I don't know, seems like the mini game is there for no reason, your going to get the stuff any way, why bog you down with an unnecessary mini game?

Mini-games when done well break up the flow.  Without them levels start to feel too long as legions of shooters come for you.  The small 5-10 second break from the action and doing something else refreshes you for the combat again.  

[Nohvarr]

[The article] made it sound like I wanted to remove RPG elements and stats from combat. What I actually said was, I wanted RPG progression to have a more meaningful impact on combat, but that was misrepresented as 'cutting RPG stats'. We actually have more stats in Mass Effect 3 that affect combat, and the overall impact of RPG progress on combat is greater."

Lady Norman's words.

[DTKT]

Ahglock wrote...

Da Mecca wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...


Because they didn't want to bar people from upgrades/money/loot, just because they didn't have a character that could hack the system. In ME 2 they wanted your choice of who to bring to be dictated by the mission parameters and your own personal preference, the cost being that some people do better in certain situations than do others. However you are not punished for your decision by not being able to acquire the schematics to that shiney new gun, as long as you are willing to play and beat the mini-game.

I don't know, seems like the mini game is there for no reason, your going to get the stuff any way, why bog you down with an unnecessary mini game?

Mini-games when done well break up the flow.  Without them levels start to feel too long as legions of shooters come for you.  The small 5-10 second break from the action and doing something else refreshes you for the combat again.  

In theory, sure. In practice, they become as much of  chore as the combat itself. They dont solve anything if they are all boring and placed one very single door/safe. 

[Ahglock]

Nohvarr wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

The issue for many is now there is nothing but the combat part. And hey since it is a hybrid the detail that it uses gears of wars mechanics is fine and dandy.  Take the stats out to some degree there.  Since combat powers are integrated into combat and they are improving those aspects, that is a great thing to hear.  But what about being better at hacking doors so maybe alternate routes are avaialble to tech classes, or large objects that can be moved with biotics, or blown up with explosives that only combat classes might have.  Where are the things not directly tied to combat even if they also have combat effects as their primary purpose or on the side.  

They weren't in the first two games, why would they be missed now?

Sure ME1 had fairly diluted abilities in this regard.  It opened doors and chests, or helped you at healing and other support functions.  But ME2 removed all of it stat wise.  Why is the sodlier just as good at hacking doors as the engineer, you are a tech specialist after all.  If your abilities in combat are important enough to stat, why is everything outside of combat ignored.  Why is only one part of your role defined.  You and others might not miss then and hey that is great for you, but others do.  

[Ahglock]

DTKT wrote...


In theory, sure. In practice, they become as much of  chore as the combat itself. They dont solve anything if they are all boring and placed one very single door/safe. 

I did say, when done well.  

[TheConfidenceMan]

Ahglock wrote...

Sure ME1 had fairly diluted abilities in this regard.  It opened doors and chests, or helped you at healing and other support functions.  But ME2 removed all of it stat wise.  Why is the sodlier just as good at hacking doors as the engineer, you are a tech specialist after all.  If your abilities in combat are important enough to stat, why is everything outside of combat ignored.  Why is only one part of your role defined.  You and others might not miss then and hey that is great for you, but others do.  

Most people played Soldier class in ME1, so they were just catering to the most popular playstyle at the expense of the others.

[DTKT]

Ahglock wrote...

DTKT wrote...


In theory, sure. In practice, they become as much of  chore as the combat itself. They dont solve anything if they are all boring and placed one very single door/safe. 

I apologize, totally missed that bit. 
I did say, when done well.  

[Nohvarr]

TheConfidenceMan wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

Sure ME1 had fairly diluted abilities in this regard.  It opened doors and chests, or helped you at healing and other support functions.  But ME2 removed all of it stat wise.  Why is the sodlier just as good at hacking doors as the engineer, you are a tech specialist after all.  If your abilities in combat are important enough to stat, why is everything outside of combat ignored.  Why is only one part of your role defined.  You and others might not miss then and hey that is great for you, but others do.  

Most people played Soldier class in ME1, so they were just catering to the most popular playstyle at the expense of the others.

Here's the thing, you're asking for the return of an aspect of the game that was at best diluted, and most likely barely there in ME 1, and gone in ME 2. In fact people are complaining about it's supposed removal when it wasn't even a major focus of the first games system. This entire thread was started because someone felt they were taking something out of the series that was essentially paid lip service to in ME 1.

So I ask, why is this an issue? Is it because there's nothing else to complain about yet?

There is something seriously wrong with fandoms today. I just took a look over at the Witcher 2 forums and saw evidence that people were canceling pre-orders (in that loud and obvious manner so as to be noticed) over the Aspect ratio, introduction of radial menus and the option for gamepad support. I swing by Skyrim and Deus Ex and I find more examples of people canceling preorders becuase 'system X has been changed now it sucks'. I'm starting to wonder if a number of people visit vdeo game forums just to complain.

[Nathan Redgrave]

TheConfidenceMan wrote...

Most people played Soldier class in ME1, so they were just catering to the most popular playstyle at the expense of the others.

I don't think anyone ever chose to be an Engineer because they wanted to hack crates and lockers open. I get the feeling it was more because of Neural Shock, Overload, Sabotage, AI Hacking, and Damping.

Besides, the decryption/electronics issue doesn't even change between classes. Even if you're a Shepard who has those skills, chances are you put points into a squadmate's Decryption/Electronics skills instead because you wanted those extra points for skills that actually mattered, like persuasion and Shepard's passive skills. If you did put points into Shepard's Decryption/Electronics, odds are it was the combat ability that decided it for you. 

And if you were a Soldier, you put points into a squadmate's and hacked that crate anyway. No, they weren't catering to the Soldier, they were catering to the idea that the Decryption/Electronics skill didn't actually add anything of substance to the game, especially once it was reduced to such a marginal role as getting one or two extra credit caches per mission.

[javierabegazo]

Please relocate discussion here
RPG Elements and Stats in ME3